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iPad Pro for photo editing?
  
 
butchM
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


jdc562 wrote:
I have already been burned once in this regard when Apple Store employees assured me several years ago that the new Ipad Pro at that time could handle the RAW files just fine.



Is the iPad ... any model or configuration ... capable of supporting all photographic workflows? This is indeed a fair question to pose. It is not fair to make completely false statements.

It really depends upon your definition of the term handle .... can you load and process RAW image files on an iPad (Pro or otherwise)? Absolutely. Can you do so with equal ease and efficiency as on a more powerful laptop or desktop. Probably not. Especially if you are working with thousands of 30-50MP images.

However, I routinely do so with limited numbers of 20-24MP RAW files on a regular basis with no ill effects. Think news, event and sports photojournalism coverage.

When I need more horse power on location, I use the proper tools instead of claiming it can't be done at all or lamenting the shortcomings of the hardware in question. To state that it can't be done at all on an iPad is an outright misstatement of fact. Portraying the lighting connector as incapable of transferring RAW images is simply incorrect. Implying that all iOS apps only use the embedded jpeg is again completely false .... just use any of the available third party apps that do support RAW and you will see.

If I have a multi-day sports tournament where I will be shooting thousands of images per day following hundreds of participants to post online galleries for print sales, I'm not going to rely on an iPad for the task. Conversely, if I am shooting a single high school basketball game where I'll only shoot a couple of hundred images and only need to process 6-12 images for publication in print and online, the iPad does just fine.

Apple has been striving to create tablets than replace traditional computers for most folks that could use one. That is not to say that any iPad is capable of, or should be capable of handling mountains of massively large RAW files. Those of us who face that challenge are a significantly small segment of the market and should consider more appropriate tools for the task. Though, I do think these newest iterations of the iPad are coming much closer to those expectations.



Jun 22, 2017 at 01:52 PM
ELinder
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


jdc562 wrote:
This is all very useful for me because I was also considering a new Ipad pro for reviewing my RAW files while travelling. I have already been burned once in this regard when Apple Store employees assured me several years ago that the new Ipad Pro at that time could handle the RAW files just fine. That cost me a lot of frustration and wasted time to find out they were wrong.

When the new highly touted Ipads came out, I assumed they would have the new, very high-speed Thunderbolt3 connections that work amazingly well on my late 2016 15"
...Show more

That is incorrect. While the newly released iPad Pros may still use the old style Lightning connector, both now support USB3 transfer speeds as well as fast charging if you have a more powerful power block.

Erich




Jun 22, 2017 at 03:21 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


Before I buy some grossly overpriced apple accessories can someone just confirm for me one last time the following please:

1) I can buy the USB 3.0 camera connection kit, and use my existing USB 3.0 CF/SD multi card reader with it, all at USB 3.0 speeds (iPad Pro 10.5). This I am pretty sure of. Additional power adapter may be necessary.

2) I can then import large amounts of 36MP Nikon NEF RAW files (or similar) into the iPad (Photos app I assume since it has no file system yet?) either from my SD or CF cards.

3) I can *quickly and smoothly* open multiple files one after another in rapid succession, zoom in/out, and check these files for focus in Affinity or similar. If I am waiting more than a second or two for each file to import or load that would be a deal breaker.

4) I also have the option to not import, but rather view/delete right from the memory card

Are all those statements true? Just want to check before I pay $50 for a $2 cable and $30 for an app.





Jun 22, 2017 at 04:38 PM
UCSB
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


In an earlier post, I said I was unsure about buying Affinity to evaluate on my iPad Pro 10.5. Well ... I have been really surprised on how well (just plain amazing performance) the 10.5 was doing on my non photography apps that I decided to buy Affinity. I am testing it with 50MP RAW files from my Canon 5DSR. My initial impression is that the app performs well on the iPad Pro 10.5, even with these large files. Sliders and activities are responsive, but opening files and developing files can take a few seconds (still very fast for what they are). Once the files are developed, you can move between them immediately ... pretty impressive. I have the Apple Pencil and was also using that with the app. But, it is a complex app and I will be taking my time getting up to speed on it. Seems like a great option if you want to be able to process a few images on the go.

CanadaMark, I will be spending some more time with the iPad Pro 10.5 this weekend and will try out some of the specific situations you are asking about. For my tests today, I transferred the RAW files from my main system to the iPad via Dropbox (which worked fine). I do have the USB 3.0 camera connection kit, but haven't used it yet.






Jun 23, 2017 at 04:18 AM
jdc562
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


butchM wrote:
Is the iPad ... any model or configuration ... capable of supporting all photographic workflows? This is indeed a fair question to pose. It is not fair to make completely false statements.

It really depends upon your definition of the term handle .... can you load and process RAW image files on an iPad (Pro or otherwise)? Absolutely. Can you do so with equal ease and efficiency as on a more powerful laptop or desktop. Probably not. Especially if you are working with thousands of 30-50MP images.

However, I routinely do so with limited numbers of 20-24MP RAW files on a regular
...Show more

You got that wrong. Regarding the "handle" question, when I tried to download my raw files onto the old Ipad Pro as I described, the tablet froze. I went back to Apple and they confirmed that they had erred: the Ipad of that time could not handle raw files. No matter what your definition of "handle," if the Ipad stopped working when downloading raw files, then it couldn't handle the files--and your semantic antics fail, too. Apparently you are unaware of the truth that older Ipads were unable to handle raw files. Moreover, contrary to the next part of your rant, I chose that Ipad for some field work based on the assurances from the Apple Store "geniuses" (their term, not mine). Just to be sure, I asked several "geniuses" at two stores, and got the same assurances. The error was theirs, not mine, which they fully admitted after submitting the problem to an upper level genius in at headquarters.

The rest of your discourse about "thousands of files" and "mountains of massively large RAW files" is a useless diatribe about facts not in evidence. But as point of fact, my late 2016 15" MacBook Pro with 2TB SSD storage handles those scales of files just fine--fast and efficiently, including processing in Adobe Camera RAW and PhotoShop. However, there are many problems looming with travelling with a MacBook laptop like that, including having to put the laptop into checked baggage: theft city. In these circumstances I want to reduce my risks as much as possible, which is why I'm considering the Ipad again for travel. If you had read my earlier post before getting carried away, I want to avoid Ipad hassles with RAW files again by learning what the new Ipads can do. Get your facts straight before more rant.

Regarding the Apple Lightning connection on the new Ipads, I do not state it cannot transfer RAW files. That is your baseless, rant-construed fabrication. I do say it is old technology hardware. In many ways it is inferior to the Thunderbolt3 connection. It is another example of Apple's failure to maintain consistency with its own products. Inform yourself.



Jun 23, 2017 at 05:35 AM
jdc562
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


ELinder wrote:
That is incorrect. While the newly released iPad Pros may still use the old style Lightning connector, both now support USB3 transfer speeds as well as fast charging if you have a more powerful power block.

Erich


Nothing I have found on the Apple website says the new Ipad Lightning connection is equal in transfer rate capabilities to the maximum rates of the Thunderbolt3. Can you show me where the transfer speeds over the Ipad's Lightning connection equals the up to 40mb/s spec'd for the new MacBooks and Imacs? The specs on Apple's website are quite vague on the subject for the new Ipads. At the very least, this old-fashioned Lightning connection is Apple-proprietary, requiring Apple's lame solution of more over-priced dongles to connect to anything else, including Apple's own new MacBook Pros. I stand by my assessment that putting the old-time Lightning connectors on on the new Ipads is a failure of coherent product design among Apple's new products, and the failure to advance the Ipad connectivity is a big negative in choosing this product.



Jun 23, 2017 at 06:28 AM
dhlewis
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


jdc562 wrote:
You got that wrong. Regarding the "handle" question, when I tried to download my raw files onto the old Ipad Pro as I described, the tablet froze. I went back to Apple and they confirmed that they had erred: the Ipad of that time could not handle raw files. No matter what your definition of "handle," if the Ipad stopped working when downloading raw files, then it couldn't handle the files--and your semantic antics fail, too. Apparently you are unaware of the truth that older Ipads were unable to handle raw files. Moreover, contrary to the next part of your
...Show more



Very Interesting since my really "old" IPad air II can transfer my raw files from the 5D Mark IV without freezing using the Apple camera connection kit and a Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB SD card. The Apple employees in Ohio told me that it would work and it did. All the photos state the word Raw in the upper right hand corner in Lightroom mobile? In the information tag it states the word "Original" not "Smart Preview". Since I have over 6,000 Smart Preview files on this same IPad Air II these files identify themselves as being what they are, Raw files only transferred from the 5D Mark IV camera without Freezing the iPad Air II.

Your written tone is very typical of many California residents these days, we are superior you know nothing. I don't claim to know everything but it worked for me.



Jun 23, 2017 at 10:42 AM
butchM
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


jdc562 wrote:
Nothing I have found on the Apple website says the new Ipad Lightning connection is equal in transfer rate capabilities to the maximum rates of the Thunderbolt3. Can you show me where the transfer speeds over the Ipad's Lightning connection equals the up to 40mb/s spec'd for the new MacBooks and Imacs? The specs on Apple's website are quite vague on the subject for the new Ipads. At the very least, this old-fashioned Lightning connection is Apple-proprietary, requiring Apple's lame solution of more over-priced dongles to connect to anything else, including Apple's own new MacBook Pros. I stand by my
...Show more

Lightning is not a peripheral standard in its own right. Nor is it 'old-fashioned' ... It is merely a proprietary cable fitting. The hardware data transfer standard being used is USB. USB2 formerly and now USB3 in some current configurations. Of course USB 3 is not on equal par with Thunderbolt. TB configurations are likely very cost prohibitive which is why we don't see them offered. Many photographers use USB3 routinely for transferring their images to and from their devices each and every day without issue.

The number of potential iPad users that require massive amounts of data transfer is very likely small in number. The vast majority of iPad users only need the capability of charging the device which is why it doesn't come configured with an infinite number of ports. Hence, dongles are offered for custom connects of niche use.


Edited on Jun 23, 2017 at 12:47 PM · View previous versions



Jun 23, 2017 at 12:37 PM
butchM
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


jdc562 wrote:
You got that wrong. Regarding the "handle" question, when I tried to download my raw files onto the old Ipad Pro as I described, the tablet froze. I went back to Apple and they confirmed that they had erred: the Ipad of that time could not handle raw files. No matter what your definition of "handle," if the Ipad stopped working when downloading raw files, then it couldn't handle the files--and your semantic antics fail, too. Apparently you are unaware of the truth that older Ipads were unable to handle raw files. Moreover, contrary to the next part of your
...Show more

No rants. Just facts. Stating that importing RAW image files to an iPad has never been possible in the past flies in the face of the truth.

How do you explain away the fact that I can load RAW NEF files on an ancient iPad 3? I don't dispute that you may have had problems with your own personal experience. But ... to portray that experience as universal in scope is simply incorrect.

The lightning port isn't the bottleneck, it's the internal hardware configuration of the iPad that limits the iPad data transfer speeds. The same cables work just as well with the newer USB 3 throughput as they did with the older USB 2.



Jun 23, 2017 at 12:38 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


UCSB wrote:
In an earlier post, I said I was unsure about buying Affinity to evaluate on my iPad Pro 10.5. Well ... I have been really surprised on how well (just plain amazing performance) the 10.5 was doing on my non photography apps that I decided to buy Affinity. I am testing it with 50MP RAW files from my Canon 5DSR. My initial impression is that the app performs well on the iPad Pro 10.5, even with these large files. Sliders and activities are responsive, but opening files and developing files can take a few seconds (still very fast for what
...Show more

Thanks, I look forward to it! No rush.




Jun 23, 2017 at 02:29 PM
 

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Lamda
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


CanadaMark wrote:
Before I buy some grossly overpriced apple accessories can someone just confirm for me one last time


You can always return the dongle if you don't like the behaviour. The people in the store couldn't answer my questions so I bought the whole system to try knowing that I could return within 14 days of purchase. I held off from extended Apple Care of course, until I was certain I liked the new Pro.


1) I can buy the USB 3.0 camera connection kit, and use my existing USB 3.0 CF/SD multi card reader with it, all at USB 3.0 speeds (iPad Pro 10.5). This I am pretty sure of. Additional power adapter may be necessary.

Yes - I use it with my USB3 multicard reader. External power is required; you will get an error message indicating not enough power if you don't.


2) I can then import large amounts of 36MP Nikon NEF RAW files (or similar) into the iPad (Photos app I assume since it has no file system yet?) either from my SD or CF cards.

Yes - I bought the largest capacity just to do this. I have and tested 42MP RAWS. As I stated in my prior post, currently you need to wait just over a second for each raw to be read and thumbnail preview icon generated in the Photo Import menu after attaching a card with files. You can then select which files you want and click Import. It will take a little more time to import what you select, but it's pretty fast at that point.

The photo importer will read every file you have in the card, so do some house keeping if you are like me and keep older photos on the card. I back up to my other systems regularly, but until now, I also left photos on my memory card as an additional fail safe. It seems to be the preview generation that takes the longest, but Adobe Bridge on my PC is not much faster in generating previews that can be used to check focus.

iOS 11 will be great if we can just navigate to the folder we need and import those, skipping thumbnail preview generation for all files. For now, if you don't need to select particular files and your card only has new files, you can just click Import All to speed things up.


3) I can *quickly and smoothly* open multiple files one after another in rapid succession, zoom in/out, and check these files for focus in Affinity or similar. If I am waiting more than a second or two for each file to import or load that would be a deal breaker.


Yes, once imported, I would just use the iOS Photo app to view individual files and zoom in to check focus unless the file is very under exposed etc. The time you spend waiting during import generated preview JPGs which is what the current Photos app will show you.


4) I also have the option to not import, but rather view/delete right from the memory card

You get the option after Importing to delete those same files from the memory card if you want.* At this point, you cannot treat the memory card as an external drive and just preview with the native Photo app without importing. iOS 11 will hopefully take us closer to this experience.

*Update edit - I checked Photo Import and once it has read the image file on the connected memory card, you can select individual files and delete off the card without importing.

Third party file management apps may let you do this, but I have not purchased any to try since I'm ok to wait for native support in iOS11.


Are all those statements true? Just want to check before I pay $50 for a $2 cable and $30 for an app.

Whether or not it imports and loads fast enough for you only you can decide - make use of their return policy. Incidentally, looking at some of the benchmarks between the iPad Pro 2017 and a Macbook Pro where they compare many of the CPU & GPU operations, the new iPad seems to have enough horsepower for a proper RAW workflow. It's the software and OS support that is lagging right now and planned solutions seem to be in place.

In my mind, $30CAD to test the new Affinity Photo app was a small drop in the bucket that this mobile workflow experiment is costing. My iPad case alone will exceed that investment Considering how important the app is in assessing this platform, it was a no-brainer for me.

Incidentally, I found this article. If you really hate having spent on the app and need to return. YMMV:
https://www.labnol.org/software/itunes-app-store-refunds/13838/



Jun 23, 2017 at 10:26 PM
Michael White
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


I have the 12.9" iPad Pro with the pencil and keyboard I've yet to edit any images as I jus got it before I left and didn't bring and photgear along other than the cams in the Mac Pro new also , iPhone 7 plus also new. I've been learning and playing with them I'll get the MacBook; pro migrated when I return to my Mac Pro then start editing on the iPad something I've been wanting since I got my cintig or before.


Jun 25, 2017 at 02:20 AM
Michael White
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


I have a Mac Pro late 2012 12 core 3.33 desktop, a MacBook Pro 15" late 2011 2.4ghz , iPad Pro 12.9 the last two are about the same foot print with the laptop being thicker. So with the pencil and magic keyboard it might take place of the laptop. With all the bt external drives storage isn't a problem.


Jun 25, 2017 at 07:08 PM
UCSB
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


CanadaMark wrote:
Before I buy some grossly overpriced apple accessories can someone just confirm for me one last time the following please:

1) I can buy the USB 3.0 camera connection kit, and use my existing USB 3.0 CF/SD multi card reader with it, all at USB 3.0 speeds (iPad Pro 10.5). This I am pretty sure of. Additional power adapter may be necessary.

2) I can then import large amounts of 36MP Nikon NEF RAW files (or similar) into the iPad (Photos app I assume since it has no file system yet?) either from my SD or CF cards.

3) I can *quickly and
...Show more

Spent a little time today with my new iPad Pro 10.5, the USB 3.0 Camera Connection kit add-on and Affinity software. Before I go further, I want to point out that the iPad Pro 10.5 is one of my favorite possessions and I use it every day. It is an unbelievably nice tablet for media consumption, entertainment and minor productivity tasks. It is also a nice platform for displaying your finished images if they are placed on the device or a location that works with the device.

1. The camera connection kit did not work correctly with my high-end Lexar media readers (I had a power adapter on the connection kit supplying power). You read images into the Photo app on the import page. App said they had been imported (for both RAW and JPG), but did not show up in gallery. Same problem with my SD and CompactFlash readers. I have some low power readers I might try out later, but these USB 3.0 high speed readers or the tablet could not get this working. Looks like it should be a simple easy task --- if it worked. (When I ordered the Camera Connection Kit, someone in a review said they were having basically the same problem that I am having ... so maybe Apple will get these bugs out at some future point).

2. If you have a large number of good size images, it slowly reads (one second per image) all images in before you can import them. I often have large numbers of images and this is a really inefficient and frustration experience. They come in via the Photos app. This whole approach is setup for low volume snapshot type of support. Which is fine for smartphones and tablets. One of the cards I was using had 800+ shots from a recent maternity shoot on my 5DSR ... it is not an environment designed for large numbers of images.

3. If your files make it to the iPad, you can move between them quickly. But, that is only a small part of culling through and rating images.

4. There may be some software that can scan the images on the memory card, but I don't know about it.

Realize that I have an expensive color calibrated 4k desktop system with 3 monitors in addition to the Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I have Adobe CC running on both. I still hope to find a niche for the iPad 10.5. I will probably try to get some really nice things going to display and share completed work using the tablet. At this point, I have a lot of respect for the Affinity app and feel that I can work with it on the iPad for low volume casual editing in the field. But to be honest, I will be using my Surface Pro 4 in those situations. The overall environment and workflow can't really compete with my two Windows 10 machines and Adobe CC. Of interest to me, but possibly not to others. After processing images on the iPad in Affinity and then bringing them back into my color managed environment for evaluation, I felt that the processing (white balance, contrast, etc.) was not done in the same way as in my color managed environments.

Some considerations when comparing the iPad Pro's to Surface Pro's. If you start adding things to the iPad to make it better for photography (more internal memory, Pencil, Camera Connection kit), these purchases add up and narrow the gap between the iPad and Windows 10 tablet.



Jun 25, 2017 at 10:49 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


Thanks Lamda and UCSB for taking the time to answer my questions

I'll probably hold off getting Affinity and the camera connection kit for now, doesn't sound like it's that great at the moment. Still a great tablet that I am enjoying for everyday use, and I was going to buy it either way, so it's all good. Maybe by the time iOS 11 rolls around, Apple will have improved the compatibility.



Jun 26, 2017 at 04:10 PM
Lamda
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


UCSB wrote:
in addition to the Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I have Adobe CC running on both.


How do you find the battery life on the Surface Pro when running Photoshop etc.? I've read elsewhere you don't get anywhere the posted 10-13 hours posted time when using it for Photoshop work. Some have said it drops drastically to typical laptop levels. A first hand account from you would be great! Thanks




Jun 26, 2017 at 06:58 PM
jrhoffman75
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


This reader works well with Apple dongle.

https://pixelflashtech.com/products/pixelflash-no-bend-pins-usb-3-0-superspeed-cf-reader



Jun 26, 2017 at 08:18 PM
UCSB
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


Lamda wrote:
How do you find the battery life on the Surface Pro when running Photoshop etc.? I've read elsewhere you don't get anywhere the posted 10-13 hours posted time when using it for Photoshop work. Some have said it drops drastically to typical laptop levels. A first hand account from you would be great! Thanks



You get much less than 10-13 hours ... something like half that when using LR/PS. It would be safe to count on 4 to 5 hours. But, the Surface Pro has a very small power adapter and I have an extra that I take with me. I also have a external battery system that can run the system for longer than you will ever want to use it.



Jun 27, 2017 at 04:53 AM
DigMeTX
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


simonedf wrote:
- Apparently features such as focus merge, stack, panorama and hdr merge do not support raw files. I had both raw and jpgs into my cloud and the raw files were all greyed out. This sucks big time.



FYI - Affinity just did a big update and now supports panorama and hdr merge from raw files.



Jul 05, 2017 at 06:26 PM
Herb
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · iPad Pro for photo editing?


I bought Affinity Photo and I like the program. My initial test for a panorama crashed. I submitted a report as had others and they have fixed it. I did a 33 photo panorama stitch and it came out fine.


Jul 08, 2017 at 12:45 PM
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