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Just becoming curious
  
 
smkunder
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Just becoming curious


I have been and will still be a Nikon shooter, but this system has peaked my interest. I am currently looking at the Olympus OM-DE-M10 II. The price point seems like one I can afford for mirrorless and the reviews seem pretty good. My main questions are with the smaller sensor can one get good prints? Also how much does one give up from an APSC sensor. What about macro, is it good? Also for natures it good? I currently shoot with a D500 Nikon with a 200-500 lens for my bird shots, but find it a bit of a challenge to take in my kayak for shooting. So how many do duel systems? Pro and cons of micro 4/3 system. Probably been asked and answered a million times, but I am intrigued by this little camera.

Thanks
Steve



Jun 07, 2017 at 11:32 PM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Just becoming curious


I'll let others speak to print quality, etc., but can tell you that the Olympus 60mm macro lens is superb. If you have the time check out the insect, flower and macro thread currently running in this forum to see some examples.


Jun 07, 2017 at 11:47 PM
notherenow
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Just becoming curious


Can you get good prints? Yes though that depends on other things as well.
How much do you give up?

I see you had/have a D7000? I think you would find that camera to be marginally better for image quality given a similar quality lens to the 16mp M43 cameras but they are still pretty good generally.

Your D500 will be better and more so as you up the ISO.

Macro can be good (photographer/lens/camera combination dependent).

Lots use dual systems though Canon makes an easier mix with M43 (and Sony) simply because there are many smart adapters for Canon lenses to allow AF with mirrorless.

There is only one smart adapter for AF for mirrorless and some Nikon lenses and that is for E mount (also a Sigma that allows AF with MF lenses but again for E mount).

Many Nikon lenses don't even play well with Nikon cameras though (the latest lenses wont work well with my pet D50).

It just means having to buy less lenses if you can use them across systems though older Nikon lenses (Ai/AIS and older AF lenses can be used with dumb adapters for manual focus).

You would probably just need one or two native M43 lenses and those range from pretty good to excellent.

I am very happy using a 16mp m43 camera as a second system with a larger sensor as my main system.

There are plenty of Pros these days who only or primarily use micro four thirds.

You really should try the camera yourself and see if you like it.



Jun 07, 2017 at 11:58 PM
smkunder
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Just becoming curious


Just checked out that macro thread, they are fantastic. Do not see many using the M10 Mark II, is that not a good body?


Jun 08, 2017 at 12:00 AM
bobbytan
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Just becoming curious


FYI the E-M10 Mk III is rumored to be announced this summer.

The 60 macro is a little jewel. Check out these images on Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/41580529@N03/with/34755711130/

The link is broken, so you have to cut-and-paste.



Jun 08, 2017 at 12:10 AM
tobycat2
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Just becoming curious




smkunder wrote:
Just checked out that macro thread, they are fantastic. Do not see many using the M10 Mark II, is that not a good body?


I think the em10 series is a bit too small for a lot of folks, plus the EVF isn't as good as the em5 or em1. Also the em10 isn't weather sealed if that matters to you. I went back and forth between the three cameras myself recently and ended up getting a great used copy of the e-m1. I decided the better ergonomics, evf, and weather sealing were important to me over the em10 mk2. IQ is pretty close among all three first and second versions of each camera. if you get any large lenses (e.g. 12-40), they balance better on the em1



Jun 08, 2017 at 04:00 AM
Wilbus
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Just becoming curious


It's been asked and answered a million times but it's always joyful to answer it a million times more

The E-M10 Mk II is a good body, nothing wrong with it at all. Sensor is same as the E-M1 Mk I although the E-M1 Mk II uses a new sensor.

I still use my E-M1 MK I and I print large without problem. I made a 5mp crop the other day that I printed on A3 (11,7x16,5 inches) and the print shows no sign at all of either pixels or bad quality.

Let me put it like this, while I haven't printed huge with the E-M1 (will do this summer) I have a print on my wall from my old Nikon D80. It's 40x28 inches and it looks great. You can see the pixels when very close but not from a distance which it is ment to be viewed from. The modern m43 sensor is miles better then the Nikon D80 from 2006.

While I can only tell you large prints is no problem, you can only make up your own mind about it. Still, you have nothing to fear from the smaller sensor.

Macro is great, you checked out the macro thread here, different lenses, some use the dedicated macro lenses (60mm most common but there is a great little 30mm as well) but also the 12-40 and 40-150 PRO lenses as well as the 300mm PRO give very good magnification.

Like most newer Olympus bodies the E-M10 Mk II offers focus stacking which means it refocuses by it self and takes a number of shots which it then stitches together for a focus stack. Great for Macro.

Nature, landscape, cityscapes, portraits and just about everything else is no problem with m43.
What you should know however is that the only camera with good continues focus tracking is the new $2000 E-M1 Mk II and even that lags behind your Nikon D500. Let's face it, the D500 is top of the line here. Nothing beats it.

The E-M 10 Mk II will NOT be good for tracking wildlife and specially not birds. For everything else it will be good, normal auto focus is quick and accurate (more accurate then a DSLR).

You will give up high ISO and low light shooting to some degree, how much is up to you. What you find acceptable, how large you print those shots and how good your software is are reducing noise.

I moved from Nikon D700 in 2012 and I'm very happy and quite heavily invested in the system, I bought a Sony A7 last year which I had for 6 months before selling it again. It just wasn't much fun and it didn't give me a huge difference in quality when I printed.

If you can find a similar priced E-M1 I would go for that instead, a bit larger but better EVF, weather sealed, better ergonomics for most people.

Thomas Leuthard is an Olympus visionary and changed his two E-M1's for two E-M10's due to their smaller size and his street shooting. I am not sure what's up with him now though, his flickr is here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasleuthard/ but his homepage only says "life beginds and the end of your photographic career". Anybody know what's that all about?

http://www.thomas.leuthard.photography




Jun 08, 2017 at 09:14 AM
smkunder
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Just becoming curious


Wilbus wrote:
It's been asked and answered a million times but it's always joyful to answer it a million times more

The E-M 10 Mk II will NOT be good for tracking wildlife and specially not birds. For everything else it will be good, normal auto focus is quick and accurate (more accurate then a DSLR).

If you can find a similar priced E-M1 I would go for that instead, a bit larger but better EVF, weather sealed, better ergonomics for most people.




ThankYou for that detailed response I was hoping I could use it for tracking birds in my kayak to gain the smaller size, but I will check out used copies of the E-M1 also. A lot to learn on this potential addition to my system.



Jun 08, 2017 at 12:02 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Just becoming curious


@smkunder my pleasure

The E-M1 will be better for tracking but to be frank it's still not very good. The E-M1 Mk II is on a whole other level which at least closes in on the D500 but then we're talking about spending 2000 on a new E-M1 Mk II.

For everything but tracking birds the E-M10 Mk II will server you very well though.



Jun 08, 2017 at 02:14 PM
Herbc
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Just becoming curious


Macro and birds are rarely going to be printed wall size, IMHO, and the m43 does quite well up to 13x19 or 16x20.
If I am needing to go larger, I fall back on the Sony AR7II. I must say I do not miss my D800E and the autofocus problems that Nikon had with syncing lenses to the auto focus.



Jun 08, 2017 at 02:58 PM
 

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bobbytan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Just becoming curious


Although I have not used my E-M1.2 for BIF, I do believe that the tracking ability is maybe only 50% as good as the likes of the D500 and 1Dx II. So it's still a hit-and-miss and your BIF keeper rate will be about half of the best DSLRs. For everything else, the AF is as good as or better than any DSLR.

Wilbus wrote:
@smkunder@ my pleasure

The E-M1 will be better for tracking but to be frank it's still not very good. The E-M1 Mk II is on a whole other level which at least closes in on the D500 but then we're talking about spending 2000 on a new E-M1 Mk II.

For everything but tracking birds the E-M10 Mk II will server you very well though.




Jun 08, 2017 at 03:00 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Just becoming curious


IMO the E-M1 and E-M1.2 files with some cropping is good for up to 40". If your files are well-exposed with little or no noise, and you don't do any cropping, you can maybe go up to 60". Beyond that, all bets are off.

Herbc wrote:
Macro and birds are rarely going to be printed wall size, IMHO, and the m43 does quite well up to 13x19 or 16x20.
If I am needing to go larger, I fall back on the Sony AR7II. I must say I do not miss my D800E and the autofocus problems that Nikon had with syncing lenses to the auto focus.





Jun 08, 2017 at 03:03 PM
Wilbus
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Just becoming curious


bobbytan wrote:
IMO the E-M1 and E-M1.2 files with some cropping is good for up to 40". If your files are well-exposed with little or no noise, and you don't do any cropping, you can maybe go up to 60". Beyond that, all bets are off.



Yup, 13x19 or 16x20 can easily be handled by much smaller sensors and lesser cameras. Much larger then that should be no problem with a modern m43 sensor.




Jun 09, 2017 at 06:59 AM
glassartist
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Just becoming curious


smkunder wrote:
I have been and will still be a Nikon shooter, but this system has peaked my interest. I am currently looking at the Olympus OM-DE-M10 II. The price point seems like one I can afford for mirrorless and the reviews seem pretty good. My main questions are with the smaller sensor can one get good prints? Also how much does one give up from an APSC sensor. What about macro, is it good? Also for natures it good? I currently shoot with a D500 Nikon with a 200-500 lens for my bird shots, but find it a bit of a
...Show more

Like many here, I shoot both Nikon and M43. The M10 II is no match for the D500 in terms of tracking. I switched from the M1 V1 o the D500 for wildlife and BIF and the difference in the number of keepers is dramatic. I don't know about the M1 vII as it wasn't available when I made that decision. M43 makes a brilliant travel camera, is fun to use, has compact, sharp, contrasty lenses, and in most light equals the performance of DX sensors - that is I seriously doubt you could distinguish an m43 print from a DX print.

To match the FL of your 200-500, you are going to need something like the Panasonic 100-400 or the Oly 300 and now we are talking about a considerable investment in a second system. Nothing wrong with running two systems - lots of us do it - but it tends to make decisions on new equipment more complicated than they probably need to be.

But if I you want a light, kayaking system, you might want to look at a D5500/5600 with a 70-300 which keeps you in the same system though you lose some FL. For the same money (as an m43 system) you might look at the 300pf and then pick up a TC14 which would save you considerable bulk over the 200-500 . . .



Jun 09, 2017 at 12:55 PM
smkunder
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Just becoming curious


glassartist wrote:
Like many here, I shoot both Nikon and M43. The M10 II is no match for the D500 in terms of tracking. I switched from the M1 V1 o the D500 for wildlife and BIF and the difference in the number of keepers is dramatic. I don't know about the M1 vII as it wasn't available when I made that decision. M43 makes a brilliant travel camera, is fun to use, has compact, sharp, contrasty lenses, and in most light equals the performance of DX sensors - that is I seriously doubt you could distinguish an m43 print from a
...Show more

I do have a older AFS 300 F4 that I sometimes use when kayaking with my D7000, Just afraid to take the D500 with the 200-500 in a kayak that might turn over. Too much of an investment (yes it is insured). My thoughts of the M43 system is for quick trips without having to pack a lot. When I shoot just for BIF I will use my D500, but when I am just doing recreational paddling with a group and still want to get a shot of that great bird I was hoping the M10-II would do it. I am just starting the investigational stage and did not want to spend a bunch of money on mirrorless yet (also looking at Fuji X-T20) It seems that I have the glass for my APSC system pretty well covered, so I did not want to change systems completely . I just have been pretty impressed with what folks are getting out of M43, including the macro stuff. Thanks for your reply.



Jun 09, 2017 at 09:32 PM
glassartist
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Just becoming curious


smkunder wrote:
I do have a older AFS 300 F4 that I sometimes use when kayaking with my D7000, Just afraid to take the D500 with the 200-500 in a kayak that might turn over. Too much of an investment (yes it is insured). My thoughts of the M43 system is for quick trips without having to pack a lot. When I shoot just for BIF I will use my D500, but when I am just doing recreational paddling with a group and still want to get a shot of that great bird I was hoping the M10-II would do it. I
...Show more

I wouldn't want to take that rig paddling either. There seem to be a lot of M1's on the used market right now - possibly because the introduction of the vII. It really is a terrific camera. And if you want to go cheap and light, pick up the Oly 70-150 consumer - probably one of the best lens bargains out there.



Jun 09, 2017 at 10:49 PM
bobbytan
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Just becoming curious


Maybe so ... but it's not weather-sealed. The PRO series lenses will take a dunking with the E-M1.

glassartist wrote:
I wouldn't want to take that rig paddling either. There seem to be a lot of M1's on the used market right now - possibly because the introduction of the vII. It really is a terrific camera. And if you want to go cheap and light, pick up the Oly 70-150 consumer - probably one of the best lens bargains out there.





Jun 10, 2017 at 12:12 AM
smkunder
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Just becoming curious


Other than sensor size and frame rate what do I give up going with the M1? Seems like a good way to go. I would probably sell my D 7000 and my 80-200 2.8 AFS that I don't use much anymore


Jun 10, 2017 at 01:15 AM
glassartist
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Just becoming curious


You give up one handed start-up - the on/off switch is on the left - and the battery life is less - two or more batteries are recommended for a full day shooting. You gain instant feedback on under/over exposure as well as ability to precisely focus using the evf. M43 lenses are mostly sharp wide open or closed one stop. I almost never close down to F8 which to say that it takes some time to learn how to get the best out of the system.

I forgot to mention the IBIS in the M1 and other Olympus bodies. It is remarkably effective and has significantly improved my keeper rate compared to Nikon. This is one of the reasons I think M43 makes such an outstanding travel camera.

Edited on Jun 10, 2017 at 09:20 PM · View previous versions



Jun 10, 2017 at 03:48 PM
savingspaces
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Just becoming curious


glassartist wrote:
You give up one handed start-up - the on/off switch is on the left - and the battery life is less - two or more batteries are recommended for a full day shooting. You gain instant feedback on under/over exposure as well as ability to precisely focus using the evf. M43 lenses are mostly sharp wide open or closed one stop. I almost never close down to F8 which to say that it takes some time to learn how to get the best out of the system.


I'd like to add to the F8 part. With a telephoto lens such as the 40-150 2.8. If you are shooting landscape at the telephoto end, you have to stop down or you will end up with lots of "bokeh". But otherwise, f4-f6.3 is the sweet spot in my experience with my 12-40 2.8.



Jun 10, 2017 at 04:04 PM
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