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M43 vs a 'good bird camera'
  
 
MedicineMan404
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


K-H, I just think the world should know that the M1ii in capable hands is capable of BIF. I just wish I had Poof's skills/eyes. At least she's a walking textook on Oly if I can get over my pride and ask her


Jun 19, 2017 at 06:25 AM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


MedicineMan404 wrote:
K-H, I just think the world should know that the M1ii in capable hands is capable of BIF. I just wish I had Poof's skills/eyes. At least she's a walking textook on Oly if I can get over my pride and ask her


Thanks Robert. I agree.

In my experience the Olympus E-M1 Marrk II = E-M1II and the Sony ILCE-9 = A9 are the first lens interchangeable mirrorless cameras perfectly fit for BIFs without focus hunting. Using the E-M1 or A7RII for BIFs can be very frustrating as both focus hunt. Once they start doing that the BIFs game is over. Of course, occasionally one can get a lucky BIFs shot with the E-M1 or A7rII but their focus hunting certainly put me off.

Back to the E-M1II and A9. The former has a silent shutter speed of 1/60s, the latter of 1/150s.
Their mechanical shutter speed of order 1/300s seems pretty typical.
So, using their mechanical shutters is fine for all BIFs, including Hummingbirds.
For Hummingbirds in Flight HIFs the silent shutter of the E-M1II produces too often for my taste severe rolling shutter artifacts. In contrast the silent shutter of the A9 is fast enough to avoid most but not all rolling shutter artifacts, the few that I can spot are also far less noticeable.

So, I use the A9's silent shutter for all BIFs.
I use the E-M1II's mechanical shutter for HIFs.
For all other BIFs I use the silent shutter of the E-M1II.

Generally speaking so far the Olympus OM-D cameras have a better selection of native long tele lenses than the Sony FE cameras. For the E-M1 and in particular for the E-M1II I also include Olympus' super high grade SHG 4/3 tele lenses as native, although they need an 4/3 to m4/3 adapter. I have not experienced any focus hunting with the SHG 4/3 tele lenses on the E-M1II. So I consider them fit for BIFs as well.

Of course, all else being equal, which never is, the sensor of the A9 has better high ISO performance.

So Robert, there you go, my 2 cents of input.

K-H.









Jun 19, 2017 at 11:02 AM
kimknapp
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


K-H,
What lens(es) are you using with the A9 for birding?

Kim



Jun 19, 2017 at 01:44 PM
bobbytan
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


Kudos to your wife, Poof! She sure handles the E-M1.2 well. I don't have her BIF skills. Could you ask her about her BIF settings please? i.e.

AF mode/target (single, 5-point or 9 point)
Sequential shooting mode/option
Silent or mechanical shutter?
Lens IS on or off?
Any other tip

@gary0319: I would appreciate your input as well please!

MedicineMan404 wrote:
Well I could hand Poof (the better-half) a 1DXii + 500ISii (and I have) or a 7Dii + 400DOii (and I have) but makes no difference; she's not going to touch them. She simply doesn't like the weight and thinks if we put a man on the Moon in 1969 then modern cameras capable of BIF shouldn't have to weight a ton.
She'd also tell you she's quite pleased with her OMD M1ii + 300/4 and really doesn't feel anything else is necessary. Should would also hasten to mention that good light is necessary. Here's a couple of her shots-

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4259/35148839832_2831e47bdd_h.jpgLanding by
...Show more



Jun 19, 2017 at 03:40 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


kimknapp wrote:
K-H,
What lens(es) are you using with the A9 for birding?

Kim



Thanks Kim, your great question points to the core of Sony's challenge to make the A9 part of a birding system.
With the A9 Sony got the camera, but they now have to come up with FE tele lenses.

I have used for HIFs on A9:

FE 70-300/4.5-5.6 G OSS
FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS
FE 90/2.8 MACRO G OSS.

The FE lens I really would like Sony to offer is an FE 400/2.8 OSS to be used also with 1.4x and 2x tele-converters.
Until that happens their announced 100-400/4.5-5.6 lens will have to tie me over.

Contrast that with the native tele lenses available for use with the E-M1II:

PL 100-400 (that I don't have).
40-150/2.8 Pro, also with 1.4x tele-converter MC-14
300/4 Pro with MC-14 (my handheld favorite)

Little tuna 150/2 SHG, also with the tele-converters EC-14 or EC-20
Big tuna 300/2.8 SHG, also with EC-14 or EC-20
Zoom tuna 90-250/2.8 SHG, also with EC-14 or EC-20

Taking the crop factor of 2x for m4/3 into account that's quite a reach.
Also the great wide open apertures compensate for the lesser high ISO performance of the E-M1II relative to the A9.

K-H.


PS: A few HIFs shots with the above mentioned FE lenses.






Sony ILCE-9 + FE 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G OSS @ 300mm, ISO 2500, f/5.6, 1/2000s, silent shutter.






Sony ILCE-9 + FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS @ 135mm, ISO 2000, F/4, 1/2000s.






Sony ILCE-9 + FE 90mm F2.8 Macro G OSS @ ISO 500, f/3.2, 1/2000s



Jun 19, 2017 at 03:48 PM
bobbytan
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


The last image with the ant on its beak is so cool!

k-h.a.w wrote:
Thanks Kim, your great question points to the core of Sony's challenge to make the A9 part of a birding system.
With the A9 Sony got the camera, but they now have to come up with FE tele lenses.

I have used for HIFs on A9:

FE 70-300/4.5-5.6 G OSS
FE PZ 28-135mm F4 G OSS
FE 90/2.8 MACRO G OSS.

The FE lens I really would like Sony to offer is an FE 400/2.8 OSS to be used also with 1.4x and 2x tele-converters.
Until that happens their announced 100-400/4.5-5.6 lens will have to tie me over.

Contrast
...Show more



Jun 19, 2017 at 09:13 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


bobbytan wrote:
The last image with the ant on its beak is so cool!



Many thanks Bobby for the feedback, much appreciated.
I read somewhere that Hummingbirds also eat tiny insects.

K-H.



Jun 19, 2017 at 09:28 PM
birdied
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


Poof needs to give me lessons Wonderful shots. Would also appreciate her settings and any suggestions she might have.



Fantastic shots of the hummers K-H.

Birdie



Jun 19, 2017 at 09:29 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


birdied wrote:
Fantastic shots of the hummers K-H.
Birdie


Many thanks Birdie for the feedback, much appreciated.
I thought you might appreciate this image.





Olympus E-M1MarkII + Extension Tubes + MC-14 + M.300mm F4.0 @ 420mm, ISO 1600, f/8, 1/800s.
Or this one.





E-M1.2 + MC-14 + 300/4.0 PRO @ 420mm, ISO 6400, f/5.6, 1/2000s.

K-H.




Jun 19, 2017 at 09:43 PM
birdied
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


k-h.a.w wrote:
Many thanks Birdie for the feedback, much appreciated.
I thought you might appreciate this image.
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-06-03-E-M1230040-PROMC-14Extension-Tubes-Bees/i-37495Th/1/1e6bdb2f/O/_6033450%20Bees_3200x2800_1600x1400.jpg
Olympus E-M1MarkII + Extension Tubes + MC-14 + M.300mm F4.0 @ 420mm, ISO 1600, f/8, 1/800s.
Or this one.
https://photos.smugmug.com/KHW/Pics-by-Date/2017-05-28-E-M1230040-PROMC-14-Hummingbirds-Eye-Detail/i-9KTL5Z6/1/43bee030/O/_5282068%20Hummer%20Eye_3840x2160_1920x1080_Crop_1440x1080.jpg
E-M1.2 + MC-14 + 300/4.0 PRO @ 420mm, ISO 6400, f/5.6, 1/2000s.

K-H.



Oh yes, the bees love the sugar solution too. Wonderful detail in that last one. You must have been very close.

Birdie



Jun 19, 2017 at 10:30 PM
 

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k-h.a.w
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


Thanks Birdie. I tried to get close to minimum focus distance of the lens.
As Tony Markle showed, in order to resolve the individual hairs of a Hummer's eyelashes, one has to get even closer with extension tubes for example.

K-H.



Jun 19, 2017 at 10:43 PM
birdied
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


k-h.a.w wrote:
Thanks Birdie. I tried to get close to minimum focus distance of the lens.
As Tony Markle showed, in order to resolve the individual hairs of a Hummer's eyelashes, one has to get even closer with extension tubes for example.

K-H.


I can't get within 15 feet of the hummers here . I guess I have too many flowers in the garden for them to feed on , so they ignore the feeders this time of the year.

I see you used the TC and tubes. When you are using the tubes and TC, which one do you mount on the camera first?

Thanks
Birdie



Jun 19, 2017 at 11:04 PM
bobbytan
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


The extension tube should be sandwiched between your lens and teleconverter.

I found this article on the internet, so it must be true.

http://photonaturalist.net/how-to-focus-closer-when-using-teleconverters/

birdied wrote:
I can't get within 15 feet of the hummers here . I guess I have too many flowers in the garden for them to feed on , so they ignore the feeders this time of the year.

I see you used the TC and tubes. When you are using the tubes and TC, which one do you mount on the camera first?

Thanks
Birdie




Jun 19, 2017 at 11:15 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


birdied wrote:
I can't get within 15 feet of the hummers here . I guess I have too many flowers in the garden for them to feed on , so they ignore the feeders this time of the year.

I see you used the TC and tubes. When you are using the tubes and TC, which one do you mount on the camera first?

Thanks
Birdie


Thanks Birdie, the Hummers like your flowers better, no doubt!
To answer your question, I mount the extension tubes on the camera, and the MC-14 on the lens.
So I view the lens with tele-converter as a single optical unit that simply gets spaced further away from the sensor by the extension tubes.

K-H.



Jun 19, 2017 at 11:20 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


bobbytan wrote:
The extension tube should be sandwiched between your lens and teleconverter.

I found this article on the internet, so it must be true.

http://photonaturalist.net/how-to-focus-closer-when-using-teleconverters/



Thanks Bobby, interesting. I have to try that.
Of course, one could add more tubes.

Another consideration, my extension tubes are a bit wobbly, so I prefer to have them closer to the camera.

K-H.



Jun 19, 2017 at 11:30 PM
birdied
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


Thanks Bobby and KH.

KH, whatever you were doing works

Birdie



Jun 20, 2017 at 12:57 AM
bobbytan
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


They both work equally well except that one method will get you in even closer ... like 6" closer and shooting from the same spot.

birdied wrote:
Thanks Bobby and KH.

KH, whatever you were doing works

Birdie





Jun 20, 2017 at 04:07 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


bobbytan wrote:
They both work equally well except that one method will get you in even closer ... like 6" closer and shooting from the same spot.



Thanks Booby.
Is that based on your own measurements with the actual equipment?
Which and how many extension tubes did you use? TIA.

K-H.




Jun 20, 2017 at 04:12 PM
bobbytan
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


It was based on the article/link I had provided.

I have not tried or used the Kenko extension tubes I got a couple of weeks ago. I was going to use it with the 40-150 PRO at the botanic gardens last weekend ... but forgot to bring the tubes.

k-h.a.w wrote:
Thanks Booby.
Is that based on your own measurements with the actual equipment?
Which and how many extension tubes did you use? TIA.

K-H.





Jun 20, 2017 at 05:36 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · M43 vs a 'good bird camera'


Still waiting for Mitesh to offer his opinions on BIF with the OMD1-2


Jun 20, 2017 at 07:58 PM
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