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Archive 2017 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

TeamSpeed
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Without examples, one has to assume trolling from any claim of ISO 1000 being poor... The 5d4 is wonderful for AF and ISO. I have not had any issues either with One Shot AF, doing group portraits or otherwise.

May 26, 2017 at 07:54 AM

garyvot
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Dawei Ye wrote:
I too have been exceptionally disappointed by the Canon 5D Mark IV for the following reasons:

1) The LCD is quite bad. It is a major step back from the 5D3 in my opinion - it just is too contrasty and overcooked, making accurate capture really challenging (you don't know what you're going to get)

2) Really disappointed by low light one shot AF. AI Servo is miles above the 5D3, but one shot is horrible in low light.

3) The colours are really screwed up out of the camera. The 5D3 is far better in my opinion. However over time...Show more →

In addition to Greg's suggestion to start with the Camera Standard profile in Lightroom, also consider changing the default Picture Style settings on your camera to obtain the results on the rear LCD that you want.

The preview as well as the histogram shown are based on the jpeg settings on the camera, so if you want to avoid "cooked" previews and better predict the RAW exposure you can use the Neutral Picture Style or reduce the contrast setting for your preferred Picture Style. This will give you a better idea of what you can recover from the RAW file.

Also consider switching the histogram display to RGB rather than luminance.

Not sure what's going on with Photo Mechanic. I use it primarily with my Surface 3 tablet which is quite modestly powered and I find it quick and responsive. I can't imagine why it would behave differently with 5D Mark IV files but perhaps you could check for an update from Camera Bits.

May 26, 2017 at 11:36 AM

EvilZardoz
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

I've been so happy with my 5D Mark IV vs. my Mark III bodies, that I yesterday purchased a 1DX Mark II to replace my 1DX. The autofocus system alone makes this change worth it to me. There was no reason to keep a 5D III around except for the ability to run Magic Lantern; my IV was producing better results for me in every way (and worst-case, no worse than the III).

With my 1DX vs. 5D4, I find that my 1DX produces significantly better results at ISOs of 6400 and above (which is where I spend a lot of my time) but the AF and usability let me down. I also missed white priority AWB, the enhanced quality of the rear display, dual pixel AF.. you name it. I was trying to shoot some pictures of a fast moving dark haired cat a few days ago under a table - light was challenging at best and my 5D IV was able to lock AF easily vs. the 1DX which was barely able to lock focus.

May 28, 2017 at 05:54 AM

echelonphoto
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

I bought a mark IV having used 6d's for two years...AF servo is great, but the files really don't sing much better than the 6d's which are great...in fact, I think the 6d high iso is def better.

May 30, 2017 at 03:14 PM

Ziffl3
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Dawei Ye wrote:
I too have been exceptionally disappointed by the Canon 5D Mark IV for the following reasons:

1) The LCD is quite bad. It is a major step back from the 5D3 in my opinion - it just is too contrasty and overcooked, making accurate capture really challenging (you don't know what you're going to get)

2) Really disappointed by low light one shot AF. AI Servo is miles above the 5D3, but one shot is horrible in low light.

3) The colours are really screwed up out of the camera. The 5D3 is far better in my opinion. However over time...Show more →

Well 20K is a little excessive for a three day wedding from 1 camera 1 shooter. several shooters and multiple cameras ... i can see.
But this would have to be 3 full days.

Otherwise I find the noise a good step about the 5Dmkiii. Really in the area of 1DX.
Not sure how photo mechanic is slow.... dis-agree .... completely.

I find the AF to be really good in low light. But if you are expecting the standard spot or small spot to work when it get really dark .... then no. the AF will be poor. Same with the 5Dmkiii.

I would say this seems to be the exception ..... I shoot in really dark ... county (some weddings) ... no ambient light situation besides reception ... so been there do-that.

At the end of the day... if no good for you ... then sell the camera.

-Mark

May 30, 2017 at 04:17 PM

garyvot
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

echelonphoto wrote:
I bought a mark IV having used 6d's for two years...AF servo is great, but the files really don't sing much better than the 6d's which are great...in fact, I think the 6d high iso is def better.

I also have been using 6Ds for almost 3 years... Great low light event cameras. Currently contemplating whether to upgrade to 5D4 or wait for 6D2....

Do you still find the high ISO better if you downsample the 5D4 files to 20Mp? (You may be aware of this... but you really have to normalize the output to compare noise fairly.)

May 30, 2017 at 06:33 PM

Ferrophot
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Thanks Echelonphoto, I have been wondering about that comparision.

May 30, 2017 at 06:41 PM

MatthewK
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

5D4 has been an outstanding camera. Canon completely "fixed" all of the shortcomings I found I had with the 5D3, and bumped up the specs in such a way as to not leave me wanting for much more. Short of adding in obvious 1-series features, I can't find anything lacking with this camera.

May 30, 2017 at 06:58 PM

artsf
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

garyvot wrote:
I also have been using 6Ds for almost 3 years... Great low light event cameras. Currently contemplating whether to upgrade to 5D4 or wait for 6D2....

Do you still find the high ISO better if you downsample the 5D4 files to 20Mp? (You may be aware of this... but you really have to normalize the output to compare noise fairly.)

I really can't relate to the OP's post. My 5div is so much better in every regard than 6d. In fact, I thought I'd keep 6d as a second body once I move up to 5div but the fact is that I sold 6d as the output doesn't match. The most unexpected and pleasant surprise for me was is how much better 5div's colors are - an immidiately noticeable improvement over already good 6d output. DR improvement is obvious right from SOOC jpegs. High ISO performance is better, no doubt; especially color retention and that is when viewed at full resolution. Downsample to 20MP and the inprovement is very obvious. My comfort level for 6d was ISO6400 and I have no reservations shooting at ISO 12800 with 5div - very impressed.

AWB-W made a huge difference for me. Events shooting with variable light is so much better now. I have never seen such pleasing AWB - just a touch slightly warm - precisely how I would do it in LR. 6d's AWB was useless to me in indoor situations, grey card only.

All my lenses - 24-70ii, 135L and especially 50L perform better now and none requires any MFA, big improvement to AF. 50L is like a different lens now.

The main feature, of course, is DPAF which is a game changer for me. I only use VF for action/fast paced events now, everything else is touchscreen only, better exposure. 4K video is gorgeous with the right settings but does require a new workflow but totally worth it with a useful fram grab function. I am also using A7rii but 5div is in a different league: DPAF, color, AWB, AF speed, battery life, low light, video is much better due to colors, low light performance, no overheating, and much better AF implementation (cinematic touchscreen pull). I do like XAVC codec for its efficiency but MJPEG is definately manageable.

May 31, 2017 at 01:10 AM

Paul Mo
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

echelonphoto wrote:
I bought a mark IV having used 6d's for two years...AF servo is great, but the files really don't sing much better than the 6d's which are great...in fact, I think the 6d high iso is def better.

artsf wrote:
My 5div is so much better in every regard than 6d. In fact, I thought I'd keep 6d as a second body once I move up to 5div but the fact is that I sold 6d as the output doesn't match. The most unexpected and pleasant surprise for me was is how much better 5div's colors are...

Eh? The world of subjectivity.

May 31, 2017 at 02:39 AM

RogerZoul
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Paul Mo wrote:
Eh? The world of subjectivity.

no kidding. I have no idea what to think about these opinions as a 6D owner looking to upgrade to a better AF system *and* not lose IQ in the process (isn't that the reason to buy a FF camera over a copy-sensor body?). My mind tells me that while low ISO DR will be improved on the 5D4, high ISO at 30 MP will probably suffer in comparison. Why would I want to downsample to compare? The output is what it is. If I see more noise at 30MP, I should downsample to 20MP to prove to myself that what I'm looking at is better than what I would see from my 6D? And I surely don't see why the colors would be better on the Canon sensors. I shoot raw, so why are colors ever better? Please explain.

May 31, 2017 at 07:36 AM

artsf
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

RogerZoul wrote:
no kidding. I have no idea what to think about these opinions as a 6D owner looking to upgrade to a better AF system *and* not lose IQ in the process (isn't that the reason to buy a FF camera over a copy-sensor body?). My mind tells me that while low ISO DR will be improved on the 5D4, high ISO at 30 MP will probably suffer in comparison. Why would I want to downsample to compare? The output is what it is. If I see more noise at 30MP, I should downsample to 20MP to prove to myself that...Show more →

Colors are better in raw due to the improved sensor, it is especially noticeable at higher ISO. For me, the main reason for the upgrade was video. I'd say strictly for stills, there is less reason to upgrade from 6d unless you are dissatisfied with its AF performance. 6d is more than enough for IQ. I love my 5div but I would not be buying it for just stills, it's a hybrid camera for me and I shoot a lot of video now. But again, in my experience, 5div is a clear and noticeable improvement over 6d in high ISO performance, DR, color response, sharpness, AWB - areas responsible for IQ. I've had 6d for over two years and 45k actuations, the difference was obvious after a couple of days shooting with 5div and processing its files in LR and DPP. Images taken with the same lenses 24-70ii, 135L and 50L have all quite a boost in resolution and for the first time I can comfortably print 24x36 from 50L that behaves like a different lens now.

Edited on May 31, 2017 at 08:39 AM · View previous versions

May 31, 2017 at 08:31 AM

jcolwell
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

RogerZoul wrote:
... Why would I want to downsample to compare? The output is what it is. If I see more noise at 30MP, I should downsample to 20MP to prove to myself that what I'm looking at is better than what I would see from my 6D?

I think the best way to compare two cameras with different resolution sensors, is to compare images at a common output size, say 3200 x 1800 for full-screen display on a high res 16:9 monitor, or 2400 x 3600 for a print 300 dpi at 8" x 12".

IOW, it's not the message, it's the medium.

Don't get me wrong, I do a lot of pixel-peeping, but comparing 100% image crops from a 20 MP 6D with a 30 MP 5DIV (for example), doesn't tell you much about how the final images will compare, when viewed on a common medium.

May 31, 2017 at 08:34 AM

echelonphoto
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

I really don't bother downsampling....so my observation may be very unscientific...I just use the camera as it is. In fact...I generally only shoot med raw and jpeg for most assignments, unless very big enlargements are required.

May 31, 2017 at 09:49 AM

echelonphoto
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

I have found some af anomolies with the mk4, esp with my 24-105...sometimes images are soft...using one shot af...precision mode.

May 31, 2017 at 09:52 AM

garyvot
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

RogerZoul wrote:
And I surely don't see why the colors would be better on the Canon sensors. I shoot raw, so why are colors ever better? Please explain.

As mentioned previously, I have extensive experience with the 6D. The sensor is good but not perfect. While it offers perhaps the best high ISO noise performance of any Canon model to date (IMO, including the 1DX series), its color response at higher ISOs leaves something to be desired.

Color sensitivity in the green channel in particular drops precipitously at high ISOs, which causes images shot under very warm incandescent lighting (such as found in many indoor event locations such as banquet rooms, hotels, etc.), to exhibit a strong yellowish cast that is not straightforward to correct for using white balance adjustments alone. In ACR or Lightroom, this requires a substantial Green Primary Hue adjustment (in the Camera Calibration panel) in order to get back to a somewhat balanced color response--and even then it is not ideal.

RogerZoul wrote:
Why would I want to downsample to compare? The output is what it is. If I see more noise at 30MP, I should downsample to 20MP to prove to myself that what I'm looking at is better than what I would see from my 6D?

Why yes, in fact.

Cameras are tools that enable us to produce real world results. If the "real world" use of your images is for reproduction in print or online, nobody is viewing your pictures at 100%. Even most common print output sizes may not need a full resolution image. So what matters is the visible noise at the output resolution, not at 100% on your computer display. Higher resolutions and lower noise just let you print bigger (or crop more) while maintaining sharpness. But at many normal output resolutions, downsampling is common.

May 31, 2017 at 10:12 AM

Arun Gupta
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

I upgraded from the 5D2 to the 5D4, and I love the 5D4. I am happy with the high ISO shots, e.g., flashless in the dark of the Baltimore national aquarium.

Never having used a 5D3, I can't say anything about a 5D3 --> 5D4 upgrade.

May 31, 2017 at 10:30 AM

Philip Mc
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Dawei Ye wrote:
All in all I find it's a massive waste of money, however its one redeeming feature is that the AI Servo, even in low light, is incredible. It means so many keepers for Bride walking down the aisle shots etc. oh and also the built in intervalometer.

My usage pattern:
- 20,000 exposures a weekend at weddings

Am I reading this correctly? 20,000 "a weekend"?

May 31, 2017 at 10:32 AM

Teper
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

He's got you all in an uproar..

He probably works for Sony :P

May 31, 2017 at 11:36 AM

garyvot
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Is your 5D4 fulfilling your expectations??

Teper wrote:
He's got you all in an uproar..

He probably works for Sony :P

Yeah, I had a chuckle about that earlier today as I was composing a comment. Interesting how the OP is nowhere to be found in the actual discussion.

May 31, 2017 at 12:11 PM

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