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Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!
  
 
Sgt_Gatr
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


http://en.leica-camera.com/World-of-Leica/Leica-News/Global/2017/CCD-sensors-of-the-Leica-M9-M9-P-M-Monochrom-and-M-E-camera-models

According to the article above the M9, M9-P, M-E, M-M will no longer get free sensor upgrades starting in a few months. If you have been holding out sending yours in I would say now is the time. If not its going to cost you over $1,000.

I still want an M9 but I may just wait for the prices to fall on ones that never had a sensor change. Anyway, just waned to give the community a heads up.



May 18, 2017 at 03:51 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


We might see M9s soon with more realistic prices of $500 per piece on the used market


May 18, 2017 at 04:17 PM
arduluth
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


retrofocus wrote:
We might see M9s soon with more realistic prices of $500 per piece on the used market


Maybe, but who wants a M9 with a corroded sensor? :P



May 18, 2017 at 06:00 PM
Sgt_Gatr
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


I hope they come down that much but I think there would be no way. Even with a totally wrecked sensor the best I could see is $1000.


May 18, 2017 at 06:05 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


From the announcements and press releases from Leica, it looks like most of the sensor swaps have been done.

I think this is an attempt to get the laggards to go ahead and take care of business. I wonder if Leica ordered enough new sensors to cover all affected cameras or if they are at the point they need to order another batch.

Some folks feel Leica is reneging on their earlier promise to make things right. I understand that viewpoint.

I was really looking into buying the MM, but research has me leaning more towards holding off until I can get the M10. To me this is all the more reason to wait and get what almost everyone feels is a vastly superior camera to the other digital M cameras.



May 18, 2017 at 06:16 PM
flash
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


There will be two price levels. Those with the new sensor and those without. You can tell by the firmware version.

I agree it's probably to get the laggards going. I'm sure Leica doesn't want to be stuck in limbo forever just because someone is too lazy to take their camera in. I'd love to see them keep going but it seems reasonable they need to have some sort of time limit.

Gordon



May 18, 2017 at 08:01 PM
Bijltje
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


dmacmillan wrote:
I was really looking into buying the MM, but research has me leaning more towards holding off until I can get the M10. To me this is all the more reason to wait and get what almost everyone feels is a vastly superior camera to the other digital M cameras.


Sorry but the M10 is no replacement for the MM. If you want the MM go for it or wait for the M10m if or when it comes out.


I personally don't feel its a vastly superior camera. Its better (besides the b/w sensor of course) but not by a big amount.
I went from M8 to M9P to MM and got hands on the M10 last week.
From M8 to M9p was a big difference with the full frame sensor. From M9p to MM again with the far better ISO performance and of course the B/W sensor. Finally I didn't had to worry about ISO any more and almost always use auto ISO.

From MM to M10 the differences were not as big as I thought they would.
The operation is a little different and the screen is better. But besides that both camera feel completely the same in use. The M10 feels way more heavy btw.
Difference in the viewfinder I can't really notice. The new menu is nice but so was the MM's menu. Simple but effective.
The ISO knob on top is nice but not that big a deal and the slimmer body is only really noticeable comparing to the M240.

Only real advantage of the m10 over the MM is the live view but thats only an advantage with lenses wider than 28mm.



May 18, 2017 at 08:59 PM
retrofocus
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


flash wrote:
There will be two price levels. Those with the new sensor and those without. You can tell by the firmware version.

I agree it's probably to get the laggards going. I'm sure Leica doesn't want to be stuck in limbo forever just because someone is too lazy to take their camera in. I'd love to see them keep going but it seems reasonable they need to have some sort of time limit.

Gordon


Most likely the sensor manufacturer of the M9 is soon no longer making this now outdated sensor, too. Technology has moved on much beyond what the M9 has to offer.



May 18, 2017 at 09:26 PM
flash
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Bijltje wrote:
Sorry but the M10 is no replacement for the MM. If you want the MM go for it or wait for the M10m if or when it comes out.

I personally don't feel its a vastly superior camera. Its better (besides the b/w sensor of course) but not by a big amount.
I went from M8 to M9P to MM and got hands on the M10 last week.
From M8 to M9p was a big difference with the full frame sensor. From M9p to MM again with the far better ISO performance and of course the B/W sensor. Finally I didn't
...Show more

I have to disagree with you here. Except for the b&w experience, which is better on the MM, everything about the M10 is significantly better than any previous digital M. And certainly an M9 series camera. Compared to an M9 series body the M10 is thinner, quieter, has significantly better battery life and a better RF experience with any of the "difficult" M lenses. The M10 writes to the card faster and is much quicker in image review. The RF is optimised to 2m not 1. The EVF is better and has half the blackout of the 240. And the EVF allows you to use dozens of other lenses including zooms like the 80-200 R.

The ONLY attractive thing, to me about any M9 body is the sensor and that's no where near enough for me to go back.

Gordon



May 19, 2017 at 12:24 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



Bijltje
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


flash wrote:
I have to disagree with you here. Except for the b&w experience, which is better on the MM, everything about the M10 is significantly better than any previous digital M. And certainly an M9 series camera. Compared to an M9 series body the M10 is thinner, quieter, has significantly better battery life and a better RF experience with any of the "difficult" M lenses. The M10 writes to the card faster and is much quicker in image review. The RF is optimised to 2m not 1. The EVF is better and has half the blackout of the 240. And the
...Show more


Sure its a better and very nice camera but to me the differences between the MM and M10 were (to my surprise) not really big when using both last week. At least to me with my type of use.
I use only rangefinder lenses (28/50 or 35) with it. Never fill the memory and are not bothered with the louder shutter.
The rangefinder went from 0.68 to 0.73 with a wider view but honestly I didn't really notice.

In reaction to dmacmillan I think he should not skip the MM for the M10 because it should be a superior camera. If he wants the Monochrom sensor the MM is the way to go.


btw, the M9, MM and even M8.2 were optimized to 2 meters also. Only the M8 was optimized to 1 meter.



May 19, 2017 at 10:07 AM
flash
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Bijltje wrote:
btw, the M9, MM and even M8.2 were optimized to 2 meters also. Only the M8 was optimized to 1 meter.


Not according to Leica...

From the M9 manual (page 131):

"Set to 0.7m: The sensor records approx. one frame width less.
Set to 1m: The sensor records exactly the image field displayed
by the inner edges of the bright-line frame.
Set to infinity: The sensor records approx. 1 (vertically) /4 (horizontally)
frame width(s) more."

1 meter cameras are M8, M9, M9P, MM(M9). The rest are 2 meter cameras.

Gordon



May 19, 2017 at 11:22 AM
Bijltje
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Strange. With the M8 many people complained about the 0,7 meter setting and so it was set to 2 meter with the M8.2

quote from Dpreview:
'The viewfinder is also modified, with the framing lines optimised for focus at 2m, rather than the M8's 0.7m, to assist with accurate framing.'

Always assumed they would keep it at 2 meter with the M9. Apparently not


So with the M10 its time for longer lenses and more distance



May 19, 2017 at 12:13 PM
flash
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Yep. The M10 is significantly easier to focus when using ultra fast or any of the "tricky" lenses. The 135 APO 90mm cron and Noctilux are much more reliable on the M10. 28's and the 50 'lux are only marginally easier.

Gordon



May 19, 2017 at 12:26 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Thanks to all for their thoughts on the cameras. I did shoot with the MM at Samy's in LA, but just in the showroom and out the window. It felt at home in the hands of this longtime Leica film shooter and I liked the results I got on the SD card I brought with me. BTW, the gentleman (I don't have his name handy) at Samy's is super nice and knowledgeable.

I wish I could just throw caution (and money) to the wind and buy both the MM and the M10. If I was primarily a street shooter, I'd jump all over the MM. However, my desire for a rangefinder Leica is to use it primarily as a travel camera. My wife and I currently have 4 trips to Europe in the hopper, two for business and two for pleasure. I've taken my 5D kit to Europe twice in as many years and I'm tired of schlepping it around and also being so conspicuous.

The MM images I've seen, especially by Allen and Chuck, have knocked my socks off. I have to say I've also seen some wonderful B&W images from the M10. I'm willing to give up the slight difference in monochrome images for the ability to shoot color, as well has having extended useful ISO (although the MM's 6400 images look really good).

In the meantime, I'm going to go on a photo safari in my hometown this afternoon, shooting with my M3, a Canon FTb and a Canon 5D. I'll be shooting B&W film and plan to duplicate shots, shooting at 35, 50 and ~90mm focal lengths. I'll be shooting primes with the film cameras and two primes and one zoom (only way to shoot @35mm) with the 5D.



May 19, 2017 at 01:16 PM
OleAndre
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


Why not a second hand M246? You will get the benefits of having live view, meaning that you can use just about any lens without hassle, and you also get better ISO capabilities than the MM. If monochrome is what you're after, then I would at least consider it over the M10. To me, the files I get with a monochrome camera is just something extra than converting colour files to black and white. Granted, I have not tried an M10, but I just have my doubts that I would be able to achieve the same look as I do with the M246. Or maybe I would, but then it would take a lot more time post-processing. What I think is so special about the monochrome files is the expression you get when there is limited light, that is when the scene is relatively dark. The details and depth in the shadows are truly outstanding.

Just a few examples from Lofoten:









May 19, 2017 at 06:01 PM
dmacmillan
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


OleAndre wrote:
Why not a second hand M246?

Good news and bad news. The good news is the used M246s in good condition with reasonable actuation numbers have held their value well. That's also the bad news, at least for someone in the market.

I've checked B&S here, KEH and eBay. Most prices are within $1k of what I've found for either a new 246 or the selling price of the M10.

Yeah the original 18 mp Monochrom can be had for much less, but it is still a big chunk of change to spend for an older used digital camera.



May 19, 2017 at 06:51 PM
OleAndre
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica no longer offering free M9 sensor replacements!


dmacmillan wrote:
Good news and bad news. The good news is the used M246s in good condition with reasonable actuation numbers have held their value well. That's also the bad news, at least for someone in the market.

I've checked B&S here, KEH and eBay. Most prices are within $1k of what I've found for either a new 246 or the selling price of the M10.

Yeah the original 18 mp Monochrom can be had for much less, but it is still a big chunk of change to spend for an older used digital camera.


Oh really? I hadn't really expected that. When I bought mine it had just been used a few months. Yet I got it for 40% less than it would cost new...




May 19, 2017 at 07:52 PM







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