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Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G
  
 
Schlotkins
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p.28 #1 · p.28 #1 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


How is the vignetting Fred? Any guesses on the tstop? Guessing it's like a 3.2 but just curious.

Thanks!
Chris



Sep 05, 2017 at 06:00 AM
rji2goleez
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p.28 #2 · p.28 #2 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


OK, I succumbed to my GAS and just ordered the 12-24. It will be a two lens kit with my 24-70gm for a cycling trip to Mallorca Spain at the end of this month. It should arrive Thursday. 😜


Sep 05, 2017 at 01:08 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #3 · p.28 #3 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Schlotkins wrote:
How is the vignetting Fred? Any guesses on the tstop? Guessing it's like a 3.2 but just curious.

Thanks!
Chris


Hi Chris,
For which lens?
If you are referring to the 12-24/4G, vignetting at 12-14mm is around 3 stops. I calculated to be the same as the Canon 11-24/4L and about a stop higher than the Sigma. However, distortion at 12mm is much more controlled than the Sigma. All in all, nothing out of the norm.



Sep 05, 2017 at 02:22 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #4 · p.28 #4 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


rji2goleez wrote:
OK, I succumbed to my GAS and just ordered the 12-24. It will be a two lens kit with my 24-70gm for a cycling trip to Mallorca Spain at the end of this month. It should arrive Thursday. 😜


Don't even look at this thread Bob!
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1451413



Sep 05, 2017 at 02:22 PM
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p.28 #5 · p.28 #5 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


How do you test for decentering with the Gletscherbruchtest? Wide open at 16 and 35mm or also FL in between?


Sep 05, 2017 at 05:37 PM
Schlotkins
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p.28 #6 · p.28 #6 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Hi Fred-

I meant the 16-35. Maybe I'm on the wrong thread. It seems if vignetting isn't bad and the t-stop is at least close to 2.8 then this makes the batis 18 and maybe the 15 f2 obsolete for Astro purposes.

Thanks
Chris

Btw your fe 16-35 f4 is an amazing copy

Fred Miranda wrote:
Hi Chris,
For which lens?
If you are referring to the 12-24/4G, vignetting at 12-14mm is around 3 stops. I calculated to be the same as the Canon 11-24/4L and about a stop higher than the Sigma. However, distortion at 12mm is much more controlled than the Sigma. All in all, nothing out of the norm.




Sep 05, 2017 at 08:53 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #7 · p.28 #7 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Schlotkins wrote:
Hi Fred-

I meant the 16-35. Maybe I'm on the wrong thread. It seems if vignetting isn't bad and the t-stop is at least close to 2.8 then this makes the batis 18 and maybe the 15 f2 obsolete for Astro purposes.

I will check vignetting for the 16-35/2.8 GM. I think it's higher than the 12-24/4G's.

Yes, the 16-35GM is a great astro lens because of the low coma from wide open!

Btw your fe 16-35 f4 is an amazing copy

I told you!




Sep 05, 2017 at 09:10 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #8 · p.28 #8 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


@Schlotkins
After checking my files again, I have to agree that the 16-35/2.8 GM is a great one-lens solution for astro. It's already amazing from wide open, pretty much replacing everything on its range.

My only complain is focus by wire but it's not too difficult to memorize the precise infinity distance for each focal length. On my copy it's:

16mm: 15m
20mm: 35m
24mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.
35mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.

I'm getting tack sharp stars with these settings.



Sep 17, 2017 at 05:05 PM
DavidBM
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p.28 #9 · p.28 #9 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Fred Miranda wrote:
@Schlotkins@
After checking my files again, I have to agree that the 16-35/2.8 GM is a great one-lens solution for astro. It's already amazing from wide open, pretty much replacing everything on its range.

My only complain is focus by wire but it's not too difficult to memorize the precise infinity distance for each focal length. On my copy it's:

16mm: 15m
20mm: 35m
24mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.
35mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.

I'm getting tack sharp stars with these settings.


Wow are those 16 and 20mm settings repeatable after turning off camera, starting from different places etc?
In a strange way if they are not repeatable, I'd just think "damn focus by wire, I guess that's one of the compromises "
But if they *are* repeatable I think "why didn't they }%^~} calibrate the lens so it's infinity at infinity!"



Sep 17, 2017 at 09:56 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #10 · p.28 #10 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


DavidBM wrote:
Wow are those 16 and 20mm settings repeatable after turning off camera, starting from different places etc?
In a strange way if they are not repeatable, I'd just think "damn focus by wire, I guess that's one of the compromises "
But if they *are* repeatable I think "why didn't they }%^~} calibrate the lens so it's infinity at infinity!"


Yes, they are but probably only with my lens.

With my 12-24G, I have:

12mm: 6m
16-24mm: 15m

(infinity is never at the infinity mark with this lens)



Sep 18, 2017 at 03:09 AM
 

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Schlotkins
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p.28 #11 · p.28 #11 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Fred Miranda wrote:
@Schlotkins@
After checking my files again, I have to agree that the 16-35/2.8 GM is a great one-lens solution for astro. It's already amazing from wide open, pretty much replacing everything on its range.

My only complain is focus by wire but it's not too difficult to memorize the precise infinity distance for each focal length. On my copy it's:

16mm: 15m
20mm: 35m
24mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.
35mm: as soon as infinity symbol appears.

I'm getting tack sharp stars with these settings.



Yea it's hard to argue. Although, if you don't mind a bit of coma, then it's hard to beat speed, especially when you can't stack (i.e. Aurora). Your copy of the 16-35 is so good so I'll probably still stick with that and then:

Samyang 14mm 2.8 -> Laowa 15 f2
Batis 18mm 2.8 -> Tokina 20mm f2
Samyang 24mm 1.4

So that's a bit heavier/bigger/less versatile kit, but during the day I'll leave the fast lenses out of the bag and at night I'll leave the 16-35 out of the bag. Gives me a lot more speed at night than I have now and I'll fine with a little coma wide open on all of those.

Chris



Sep 18, 2017 at 05:02 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #12 · p.28 #12 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Schlotkins wrote:
Yea it's hard to argue. Although, if you don't mind a bit of coma, then it's hard to beat speed, especially when you can't stack (i.e. Aurora). Your copy of the 16-35 is so good so I'll probably still stick with that and then:

Samyang 14mm 2.8 -> Laowa 15 f2
Batis 18mm 2.8 -> Tokina 20mm f2
Samyang 24mm 1.4

So that's a bit heavier/bigger/less versatile kit, but during the day I'll leave the fast lenses out of the bag and at night I'll leave the 16-35 out of the bag. Gives me a lot more speed at night than I have now
...Show more

That's what I do. At night, I only bring the Laowa 15 and Loxia 21.

However, with scenes without much leaves or foliage, the 12-24/4 is a great choice for astro when shooting 10-exposures, high ISO (12,800) at around 12-15s/each and then blending/aligning them in post. I use StarryLandscapeStacker.



Sep 18, 2017 at 05:46 PM
Schlotkins
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p.28 #13 · p.28 #13 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Fred Miranda wrote:
That's what I do. At night, I only bring the Laowa 15 and Loxia 21.

However, with scenes without much leaves or foliage, the 12-24/4 is a great choice for astro when shooting 10-exposures, high ISO (12,800) at around 12-15s/each and then blending/aligning them in post. I use StarryLandscapeStacker.


Absolutely - that App is soooo amazing. This was shot with the Canon 35 1.4 at 1.4 @ 10secs ISO3200. I stacked 22 (!) shots and end up with a shot that has unbelievable clarity.

I am tempted to dump my Samyang 24 1.4 for a Batis 25mm to get rid of all my adaptors for astro, but I have an amazing copy of that lens and it's t-stop is 2/3 stop faster so I'm going to keep it.

Did you check the t-stop of the Laowa? I'm guessing it's more like 2.2 than 2 (The Tokina 20mm f2 has a t-stop around 2.2).

I do wish Sony would fix or at least say they will fix the StarEater issue. I'll keep using my A7r original until then, but ....

Chris








Sep 18, 2017 at 06:17 PM
Messier77
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p.28 #14 · p.28 #14 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Schlotkins wrote:
Absolutely - that App is soooo amazing. This was shot with the Canon 35 1.4 at 1.4 @ 10secs ISO3200. I stacked 22 (!) shots and end up with a shot that has unbelievable clarity.

I am tempted to dump my Samyang 24 1.4 for a Batis 25mm to get rid of all my adaptors for astro, but I have an amazing copy of that lens and it's t-stop is 2/3 stop faster so I'm going to keep it.

Did you check the t-stop of the Laowa? I'm guessing it's more like 2.2 than 2 (The Tokina 20mm f2 has
...Show more

Do you have any tips for using Starry Landscape Stacker? I tried stacking 8 shots and it basically looked the same as each of the individual shots.



Sep 18, 2017 at 08:27 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.28 #15 · p.28 #15 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


I assume you use identical exposures and then stack them? What is the optimal amount of images to produce the best results? I will have to check out this app....


Sep 18, 2017 at 09:02 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #16 · p.28 #16 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


The rule of thumb for fast lenses (f/2.8) is:

10 consecutive captures at ISO 10,000, 10 seconds each (so exact same exposure) for the sky and another very long exposure for the foreground (sometimes minutes). So, easy to remember: 10/10/10!

I've altered this rule here because it was an example using a f/4 lens:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1490883/27#14186062

Of course this rule is highly dependent on light pollution and scene brightness level. 10 seconds should give you pinpoint stars even at 20mm.

Starry Landscape Stacker will align the sky exposures and combine the final result (low noise) with the foreground image. Because of the stacking, ISO 10,000 images will look very clean.

Alternatively, you could use the SR APP with a tracker*.
SR could take 10 images and combine them in-camera, the stars will remain aligned because you are using a tracker. Then you just need another one for the foreground and combine both in post.

*With a tracker, it may be easier to just go long exposure for the sky instead.



Sep 18, 2017 at 09:45 PM
Messier77
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p.28 #17 · p.28 #17 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Fred Miranda wrote:
The rule of thumb for fast lenses (f/2.8) is:

10 consecutive captures at ISO 10,000, 10 seconds each (so exact same exposure) for the sky and another very long exposure for the foreground (sometimes minutes). So, easy to remember: 10/10/10!

I've altered this rule here because it was an example using a f/4 lens:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1490883/27#14186062

Of course this rule is highly dependent on light pollution and scene brightness level. 10 seconds should give you pinpoint stars even at 20mm.

Starry Landscape Stacker will align the sky exposures and combine the final result (low noise) with the foreground image. Because of the stacking, ISO
...Show more

Thank you! Great advice.



Sep 18, 2017 at 10:01 PM
Schlotkins
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p.28 #18 · p.28 #18 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


The old rule was the 500 rule. i.e. 500/focal length = exposure. But it's closer to 200 these days. The stars in some of my shots have a little trail on then, but at the sizes I print you'll never notice. At least on my A7r, after taking about 40 shots in a row on a warm night the thermal noise is more noticeable. I do dark frame subtraction but still..


Chris



Sep 18, 2017 at 10:17 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #19 · p.28 #19 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Something else to keep in mind when deciding between 12-24G and 16-35GM is that the latter is not well corrected for CA at 16mm (Not much of a problem after 20mm though). The former is well corrected for LaCA and LoCA.

Here is an example of LaCA shown at 16mm (crop shows 2:1 magnification)
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1508615/1#14187897



Sep 20, 2017 at 02:50 AM
Fred Miranda
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p.28 #20 · p.28 #20 · Pre-order Now! Sony FE 16-35/2.8 GM and FE 12-24/4 G


Fotodiox released their Wonderpana adapter for the Sony FE 12-24/4G and I ordered one last week.
I already had a 145mm C-POL and a couple ND filters so all I needed was the adapter.
https://fotodioxpro.com/products/wpcore-snfe1224?variant=1536476971037

I tested it with my ND filter (which is a bit thick) and got zero vignetting from 12mm until 24mm.

It's pretty light at only 175g. Here are some pictures showing it with the lens. (sorry iPhone pics. )

















Oct 14, 2017 at 01:51 AM
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