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Archive 2017 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Tony5787
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I've been looking to upgrade my 100-400 II to the 400 DO II but I'm wondering if upgrading my 7D II to the 1DX and keeping my current lens might be more beneficial. I use the 100-400 with the 1.4 extender III and the improved AF with that combination on the 1DX would be pretty great but I'm wondering if the AF with the 7D II and the 400 DO with the extender would be about the same given the one stop advantage. Any feedback on this would be appreciated, I keep going back and forth in my head so I think hearing from others might help me to make the right decision.

May 16, 2017 at 10:01 PM

pshyvers
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

As I learned it, the general rule is invest in glass first, body second.

May 17, 2017 at 12:11 AM

Kathy White
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Given your two choices, the 100 400II is so very good that I would upgrade the camera. Also a much cheaper upgrade.

note: I have the 100 400 II and the 400 DO II currently, and have owned both the 7DII and 1DX.

May 17, 2017 at 01:26 AM

garydavidjones
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Moved up from 7D2/100-400 I combo to 5D4/100-400 II combo. many more keepers
due to better IQ and ability to crop from the 30 megapixel 5D4,
For example, photos of distant hummingbirds which previously had been
a total loss now produce excellent detail of feathers.

Ditto for one spur of moment shot of a woodpecker while using
5Dsr with 100 mm L macro at botanic garden. assumed it would be unacceptable
blur. cropped. excellent IQ and feather details.

have had use of 1Dxii with the 100-400 II. excels at getting good shots
of hummingbirds in flight.

May 17, 2017 at 01:57 AM

Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Trouble is 400mm on the pixel challenged 1DX is not enough so often I ended up also getting a 600mm zoom for the 1DX. The 1DX + 100-400 + 1.4x will be a nice combo but I'd actually suggest a 5D4 if you can live without the 10-12fps. 7fps covers most situations fairly well, although I'd love it to have even 8fps. The 5D4 puts 67% more pixels on the subject, has better IQ than 7DII at any ISO offers 4K, greatly improved DR at low ISO. In fact I'd rather have the 5DsR than the 7DII and that's in fact what I did. I'm thinking of selling 1DX now I have 5D4 and maybe get a second hand 1DXII later this year or even grab a Sony A9.

May 17, 2017 at 02:14 AM

Mikehit
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Wow! - so many options from one question.

I have the 7Dii and 100-400ii and I added the 400DOii for two simple reason - f4 for sports and low-light wildlife, and using 1.4 tc to give 560mm at f5.6. The centre image quality of the 100-400ii is very nearly as good as the 400DOii but it was these that convinced me.

I had considered the 1Dx2 but went lens first because after hiring the 1dx2 for a weekend I realised what a good camera the 7D2 actually is - it gives little away in image quality up to ISO 1600/3200 provided you don't crop too much or rely on shadow recover.

But so much depends on what you shoot. Large mammals, then 100-400 on the 7D2 will be great. Birds in flight against a complex background, or adding then 1.4tc on the 100-400 (f8) and the 7D2 can hunt like for no apparent reason (but when it does hit the image is great).

So it depends on what question you are trying to answer. Assuming you can afford the 40DOii:
if the AF on the 7Dii is too erratic and you want a more solid 'hit' (and I know it can be frustrating!) then for slow moving or stationary subjects where you can get a decent size in the frame, consider the 5DIV.

Lower light for slow moving subjects, the 400DOii has its advantages on the 7Dii and as I say I am very happy with this combination. For shallower DOF in good light the 400DOii is excellent.

For faster moving subjects or in lower light, then the 5DIV or the 1Dx (if you can afford the 400DOii, why not the 1Dx2? - these would also give you all point at f8 but the 1Dx is centre point only). I say this as an avowed 'glass first' person, but what is the point of having excellent glass if it the camera won't focus the thing?

One other thing to consider is that the 1Dx2 and 5DIV you have far more latitude in managing underexposed images and/or cropping. It really is like having another 100mm on your lens. I find above ISO 800 the 'reach advantage' of the 7D2 is all but gone.

I feel your frustration on your dilemma but I hope this helps

May 17, 2017 at 03:23 AM

Tony5787
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Thanks for the replies everyone! I've always been a glass first person as well simply for the fact that it's a better investment in the long-term. I've been thinking about the 1DX II as well for the reasons listed and a used one in good condition would be a little cheaper than the 400 DO II (after selling my 100-400 or 7D II to fund either though, the difference would be basically the same). My main hesitation with investing in a body that expensive versus a lens that expensive is that the body will depreciate a ton within the next few years while the 400 DO II will probably hold its value reasonably well over the next decade (based on the upgrade cycle between the first and second versions).

I hate letting money play such a big part in the decision-making process but it certainly does for me since this gear is so expensive and I'm only a hobbyist. I'm definitely still leaning towards the 400 DO II I think though for that reason and the reasons listed above (more light with the 1.4 extender, full AF coverage on the 7D II, etc) as well as the fact that the 1DX and 1DX II will be even cheaper in a year which might make more sense in the long term. Thanks again though for everyone taking the time to reply, it helps a lot!

May 17, 2017 at 07:11 AM

David Garcia
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Tony5787 wrote:
I've been looking to upgrade my 100-400 II to the 400 DO II but I'm wondering if upgrading my 7D II to the 1DX and keeping my current lens might be more beneficial. I use the 100-400 with the 1.4 extender III and the improved AF with that combination on the 1DX would be pretty great but I'm wondering if the AF with the 7D II and the 400 DO with the extender would be about the same given the one stop advantage. Any feedback on this would be appreciated, I keep going back and forth in my head so...Show more →

For me, both of those lenses are a must have... the DO for F4 and the zoom for versatility. I would not let go of the 100-400 ll. The FF bodies are a must too for low light and high ISO. If I were in your shoes, I'd buy the 400 DO ll first and then consider a 5D4, 1DX2 or 1DX later. Tough call, on which choice to make first, but the glass gets you where you want to go with some limitations of your body.

May 17, 2017 at 07:11 AM

arbitrage
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Tony5787 wrote:
Thanks for the replies everyone! I've always been a glass first person as well simply for the fact that it's a better investment in the long-term. I've been thinking about the 1DX II as well for the reasons listed and a used one in good condition would be a little cheaper than the 400 DO II (after selling my 100-400 or 7D II to fund either though, the difference would be basically the same). My main hesitation with investing in a body that expensive versus a lens that expensive is that the body will depreciate a ton within the next...Show more →

It is a tough call. I'd get the DO over the 1DX. However, a 1DXII makes the AF sing on the 100-400II/1.4 combo. The 5DIV is good at f/8 AF but not like the 1DX2.

I think your plan of 400DOII lens now and used 1 series later as they do depreciate fast is a good choice.

May 17, 2017 at 07:24 AM

dhachey
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Is your current gear limiting your photography in any way? If so, then you should evaluate why. You don't give enough details about what you shoot, so it's difficult for us to give you any recommendations. I've owned everything you mention, except the 400 DO. The 1D X is a fine camera, probably the best I've ever owned, but I find the 18 MP limiting. I don't think the 400 DO will give you significantly better images than the 100-400, though others may disagree. If you can afford it you should consider the 5D Mk4, it's a more advanced body with an improved AF and sensor. 30 MP will give you more latitude for processing.

Tony5787 wrote:
I've been looking to upgrade my 100-400 II to the 400 DO II but I'm wondering if upgrading my 7D II to the 1DX and keeping my current lens might be more beneficial. I use the 100-400 with the 1.4 extender III and the improved AF with that combination on the 1DX would be pretty great but I'm wondering if the AF with the 7D II and the 400 DO with the extender would be about the same given the one stop advantage. Any feedback on this would be appreciated, I keep going back and forth in my head so...Show more →

May 17, 2017 at 07:27 AM

ggreene
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Hard to say before knowing if you are happy with the AF of your 7D2. If you are then the 400DO II gives you an extra stop and a 560/5.6 and 800/8 with TC's. If you aren't then I would say a 1DX/1DX2/5D4 (pick your poison) would be a better return on investment.

May 17, 2017 at 07:50 AM

garydavidjones
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

Don't under-rate the versatility of the 100-400 II. Its minimum focus distance is less
than a meter, a little more than half of that of the 100-400 I. Useful for shooting
small critters such as frogs and in tight confines such as the Aquarium of the Pacific.

Prior to getting 100-400 II I was using the 180 L macro and even 24-105 L in
such situations as ones mentioned. Most pleased with the new results.

In my opinion you are paying several times the price of 100-400 II for
less versatility.

May 17, 2017 at 09:01 AM

pshyvers
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I was in your shoes and went for the glass. My choice was simple:

1DXII w/ 100-400 gets me all AF points active at 560mm f/8, no points at 800mm f/11

400mm DO w/ 7DII gets me all points at 560mm f/5.6, and one point at 800mm f/8

Easy choice for me. I also discovered later the 100-400 is more like 100-370, so the DO is a touch longer. Whether you care depends on your shooting.

May 17, 2017 at 10:20 AM

Tony5787
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I'm going to be using this primarily for birds in flight, mostly raptors but also songbirds and smaller perched birds when the opportunity arises. I'd also be using it for the occasional mammal and other wildlife but birds are really my primary use-case. The 7D II isn't bad by any means, it just seems to hunt a bit with the teleconverter and it's not the fastest AF (no slouch either though). Ultimately my goal is to have the 400 DO II with my current 1.4x III and a 2X III (I won't get that until I get a 1 series body though) and a 1DX or 1DX II so it's really just a question of what to upgrade first I guess. I think waiting to get a 1DX II when they dip below $4k might be my best bet. Thanks again everyone, much appreciated!

May 17, 2017 at 11:49 AM

JohnBrose
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

why not get the 500 f4 if you are always using the 100-400 with a converter? I wouldn't get a full frame body if you are already challenged for reach-you would be going backwords. I would keep 7d2 with 100-400 mk2 and add maybe a longer lens like the 500 or 600.

May 17, 2017 at 12:18 PM

Bsmooth
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I have the 100-400v2 and use it with my 1DMKIV, and it works pretty well. But with a newer body it should work even better. I like to shoot mostly Birds in Flight myself and having the hunting issue myself, though not always sure why.
I still think it has something to do with the cross type AF points and the variable aperture lens, but since I don't have anything to compare it to I'm not sure.
For versatility though the 100-400v2 is the one to beat

May 17, 2017 at 01:57 PM

Tony5787
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I'd like the 500 for sure but the compact size of the 400 DO is really appealing. It would be nice to be able to fit that in a compact backpack on a flight instead of needing a huge carry on for the 500. I anticipate that the next versions of telephoto will probably use DO like the 600 concept but the current versions are a bit bigger than I'd like right now.

May 17, 2017 at 03:07 PM

aboutthelight
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I owned the 7dii from the day it came out. After a few years I decided to purchase the 1dx. Picked up a used one for $2,600 with less than 89,000 shots on it. Think the price has come down since then. Here is the thing for me. The image quality of the 1dx is just better. So much so that I have not picked up the 7d2 since I bought the 1dx. It has more frames per second and the files are much easier to work with in post. Can easily go to ISO 6400 with good noise reduction techniques and still have high quality output. I will never pick up the 7dii again in fact and am trying to decide if I should sell it or give it to family to use. I would always rather have better image quality. So although both are great lenses, if using the 7dii with the 400 do ii I would not be happy with the image quality knowing that the 1dx or even 5d4 is out there. I would upgrade the camera first because the image quality is just better.

May 17, 2017 at 03:25 PM

Chris B.
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I recently got a 400 DO II, and it, with and without a 1.4x, virtually lives on my 7D2! The combination delivers consistently stellar images, and it's portable. My "old standby" of a 1D4 and 500+1.4x (not very portable for me at least) rarely leaves the case anymore.

May 19, 2017 at 08:11 AM

lowside67
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Upgrade 100-400 II to 400 DO II or 7D II to 1DX

I feel like these are two very different options - pricewise they are similar, but the actual effects are completely opposite.

If you have a 7D2 and buy a 400 DO II, you will have framing at 640mm or 896mm (with or without 1.4x tele).

If you keep the 100-400II and buy a 1DX, you will have framing at 400mm or 560mm (with or without 1.4x tele).

With the difference in pixels between a 1DX and a 7D2, you are talking about the subject being nearly twice as large in an image with the 7D2 body. On the other hand, the 1DX combo gets you much better low light capabilities, narrower depth of field (assuming you could get closer to your subject to offset for the framing differences), better autofocus, and a million fps.

For a long story short... if you can get enough reach with your 7D2 and 100-400 now without the tele regularly, but feel you are limited by low light capability and autofocus reliability - get the 1DX.

If reach is often a challenge and you find yourself always using a tele on your current body and needing to crop still, you will find that despite the fantastic IQ of the 1DX, in my opinion, you will simply not have the reach you need and will end up cropping away any advantage.

And one other thing... I would SERIOUSLY evaluate whether you actually need a 1DX. A 1DX is a brilliant camera, but for a lot of shooters (myself included), the advantages of the 5D4 (size/weight/price/resolution/touchscreen/GPS...) outweigh the build quality and FPS that the 1DX brings to the table. Both brilliant cameras, but very different.

Mark

May 19, 2017 at 09:52 AM

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