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GFX lens adapting woes
  
 
Lee Saxon
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · GFX lens adapting woes


Do we have many forum members with firsthand experience yet? Lloyd Chambers is very bearish so it'll be very interesting to see how it all turns out. He suggests that there's a ray angle sensitivity issue due to something about the microlenses? It was apparently less severe at longer focal lengths (same as the A7 series with Leica M). So maybe a GFX + 180 APO-Summicron is still in my future one day...

From diagrams he's posted it looks like the filter stack might not actually be attached to the sensor which I'm guessing would mean a Kolari-esque conversion would be (a) much easier and (b) much more destructive to performance with native lenses



May 17, 2017 at 02:58 AM
shakenmartuni
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · GFX lens adapting woes


I have not had good experience adapting lenses on any system. Based on what I have seen so far from adapting lenses to the GFX, I am not very impressed with the results. It looks like it is best to wait for native lenses to be available.

The good thing is that by the time most of the native lenses are available, it will be about time for the GFX II, so the original GFX should be less expensive to buy.



May 17, 2017 at 04:31 PM
mcbroomf
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · GFX lens adapting woes


Jim Kasson has a huge number of tests with the GFX, many with 35mm (FF) lenses
http://blog.kasson.com/

Mike



May 17, 2017 at 07:36 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · GFX lens adapting woes


Suteet here has tested quite a few as well. I have the camera ordered at B & H and they say they should have it soon. When mine comes in I will do a lot of tests. I think most Medium Format (MF) lenses will be fine as they have very long register distances and slow apertures. It will be interesting which FF 35mm lenses work. Already there are some positive surprises. It looks like from Jim Kasson's and Suteet's tests that the Zeiss ZF.2 135 f/2 APO works very well as a 100ish f/1.5 equivalent. Suteet's images with the Leica R 80 f/1.4 also look excellent and seem to make a very compelling Noctilux like lens. Suteet's images also seem to suggest (and I will test this thoroughly) that the Leica M 50 cron AA may work quite well as a 35ish f/1.5 equivalent. From Jim's testing it also looks like the 55 and 85 Zeiss Otus and maybe the 28 Otus will also work.

When I get my camera I will test my Zeiss ZF.2 35 f/1.4; Zeiss Milvus 85 f/1.4 and 135 f/2 APO; Zeiss Otus 28 f/1.4 and 55 f/1.4; Leica M 50 f/2 AA, 75 f/1.4 (I am still waiting for this to arrive), 90 cron AA; and Leica R 180 f/3.4 APO (this looks like it will easily work from previous testing).

I also have Hasselblad HC 24 f/4.8, 100 f/2.2, and 300 f/4.5; Hasselblad CFE 40 f/4, CF 60 f/3.5 (still waiting for this to arrive), and CF 180 f/4; Mamiya 645 55 f/2.8, 120 f/4 macro, and 200 f/2.8 APO (I am still waiting for this to arrive as well). I am pretty sure that all of this MF lenses will work without any serious issues.

The bottom line is a lot of lenses are available to adapt and I do not expect the problems that we saw with the Sony A7 cameras as the flange focal distance is much larger and the aperture is much slower for most of the lenses that could be adapted. But just as with the Sony A7 cameras when the flange focal distance (i.e., the exit pupil) is shorter and the aperture is fast, then problems will arise. Many FF 35mm lenses also won't work because they just don't have a big enough image circle, but some others like the Zeiss ZF.2 135 f/2 APO may work very nicely.



May 17, 2017 at 08:15 PM
suteetat
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · GFX lens adapting woes


Unfortunately Otus 28/1.4 does not work at all. You get lots of black border and with 4:3
ratio, you will need to crop significantly, probably around 30-40% to get rid off the black border. I only tried it once at landscape distance and did not bother.
Zeiss/Hasselblad CFE 40/4 works well. I recently got this lens but still a bit confused about how to use the FLE ring and could not find a web that explain exactly how it works. Various forums seemed to have different opinion. What I tried so far, at near infinity distance, I kept FLE ring at infinity tab, focus normally, then played a bit with FLE ring to make sure I get the best sharpness at the center. The image is very nice, a bit more film like, whatever that is supposed to mean but if you talk about resolution, 32-64/4 really has it beat at all F stop. Leica M 50/2 apo definitely works as portrait lens but I would not use it for landscape as the corner does not sharpen up enough ( I think it could be smearing problem not unlike Sony with many wide angle Leica M lenses).



May 18, 2017 at 12:32 AM
tunisia
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · GFX lens adapting woes


I don't test lenses in any scientific way, but I've found good results with the Zeiss Milvus 50mm f/2 macro lens. Good rendering and bokeh. I also like it for more distant than macro but have not shot at more than a couple of meters (so far only indoors). In its macro range it has excellent sharpness, but I leave it to others to determine corner to corner sharpness as this interests me little. Most of my "test" shots were wide open.

I can second that the Zeiss Otus 85 and 135 apo are excellent as well.



May 18, 2017 at 05:33 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · GFX lens adapting woes


suteetat wrote:
Unfortunately Otus 28/1.4 does not work at all. You get lots of black border and with 4:3
ratio, you will need to crop significantly, probably around 30-40% to get rid off the black border. I only tried it once at landscape distance and did not bother.
Zeiss/Hasselblad CFE 40/4 works well. I recently got this lens but still a bit confused about how to use the FLE ring and could not find a web that explain exactly how it works. Various forums seemed to have different opinion. What I tried so far, at near infinity distance, I kept FLE ring at
...Show more

Thanks for all your tests and sorry I got your screen name wrong. Too bad about the Otus 28. I suspected it wouldn't work because it is so wide, but that is worse than I thought. Your report on the Zeiss/Hasselblad CFE 40 f/4 FLE (which is the one I have as well) is very interesting. As far as I can tell you did the focussing correctly, but one thing to watch is that with this lens I wonder if it may be necessary to shim the adapter. Given that it is an FLE lens exact flange focal distance may be important. I will probably pick up an extra adapter and try to shim it just for this lens. By the way speaking of adapters, I also picked up a Hasselblad H to CF adapter that will hopefully let me use the leaf shutter on CF and CFE lenses on the Fuji with the H adapter. It will be a dual adapter solution, but I hope it works. When I get my camera I will let folks know if it works.



May 18, 2017 at 12:53 PM
Audii-Dudii
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · GFX lens adapting woes


I don't have a GFX to perform any sort of tests, but last night, I just started testing a Nikon-mount Sigma ART 24/f1.4 on my A7R / Cambo Actus combo and was floored to discover there is at least 10mm of movement available in every direction when the camera is focused at approx. 100', the aperture is set at approx. f8, and the OEM the lens hood is not used.

(Unfortunately, with my present adapter setup, it's difficult to determine the exact aperture value that's being used.)

Oh, and it's also sharp, sharp, sharp, too!

When I have a chance during the next couple of days, I'll mount it on my FrankenKamera Jr. and install the ground-glass to more accurately determine the size of its image circle. But for now, the early indications are that it will cover the GFX's 33x44 sensor ... wow!



May 18, 2017 at 02:44 PM
JimKasson
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · GFX lens adapting woes


Steve Spencer wrote:
Thanks for all your tests and sorry I got your screen name wrong. Too bad about the Otus 28. I suspected it wouldn't work because it is so wide, but that is worse than I thought. Your report on the Zeiss/Hasselblad CFE 40 f/4 FLE (which is the one I have as well) is very interesting. As far as I can tell you did the focussing correctly, but one thing to watch is that with this lens I wonder if it may be necessary to shim the adapter. Given that it is an FLE lens exact flange focal distance
...Show more

The 24/1.4 ART needs to be stopped down a lot on the GFX to get sharp corners at 4:5 and 1:1 aspect ratios. It will not cover the full 33x44 frame.

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/sigma-art-241-4-on-fujifilm-gfx-50s/

Jim




May 18, 2017 at 04:14 PM
JimKasson
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · GFX lens adapting woes


Steve Spencer wrote:
I also have Hasselblad HC 24 f/4.8, 100 f/2.2, and 300 f/4.5; Hasselblad CFE 40 f/4, CF 60 f/3.5 (still waiting for this to arrive), and CF 180 f/4; Mamiya 645 55 f/2.8, 120 f/4 macro, and 200 f/2.8 APO (I am still waiting for this to arrive as well). I am pretty sure that all of this MF lenses will work without any serious issues.


All the HC lenses I've tested work fine for coverage (as you'd expect), except that I've not been able to get the Fuji adapter to fire the leaf shutters. I have yet to find an HC lens that is up to the resolution of the native GFX glass or adapted Zeiss lenses.

I have not tested the three HC lenses that you have.

I have tested the V-mount 250/5.6 SA, and it is pretty sharp, but difficult to use. The V-mount 500/8 Apo is soft. I didn't even bother to put the results on the web site. You'd be far better off with a Nikon 400/2.8 on an a7RII, or even a D810.

To be fair, the HC lenses were made to cover a larger format, and the V-mount lenses were intended for a much larger one.

Jim




May 18, 2017 at 04:22 PM
 

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JimKasson
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · GFX lens adapting woes


Lee Saxon wrote:
Do we have many forum members with firsthand experience yet? Lloyd Chambers is very bearish so it'll be very interesting to see how it all turns out. He suggests that there's a ray angle sensitivity issue due to something about the microlenses? It was apparently less severe at longer focal lengths (same as the A7 series with Leica M). So maybe a GFX + 180 APO-Summicron is still in my future one day...


The ray angle sensitivity is due to the thickness of the sensor stack. Roger Cicala has not reported the thickness yet, but some are guessing around 3mm. The sensor is also larger than FF. Using retrofocal wides helps, as was the case with the 2mm-stack a7x. I have not found a FF lens under 50mm that works well even at 4:5 aspect ratio at wide apertures across the crop.

Both the 180 Apo-Telyt-R and Elmarit-R VII work well on the GFX for 4:5 or squarer crops.

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/two-leica-r-mount-180s-on-fujifilm-gfx-50s/

Jim




May 18, 2017 at 04:38 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · GFX lens adapting woes


JimKasson wrote:
All the HC lenses I've tested work fine for coverage (as you'd expect), except that I've not been able to get the Fuji adapter to fire the leaf shutters. I have yet to find an HC lens that is up to the resolution of the native GFX glass or adapted Zeiss lenses.

I have not tested the three HC lenses that you have.

I have tested the V-mount 250/5.6 SA, and it is pretty sharp, but difficult to use. The V-mount 500/8 Apo is soft. I didn't even bother to put the results on the web site. You'd be far better off
...Show more

Hi Jim,

As usual you did very thorough testing. Thanks for these tests and all that you have done on your excellent blog. If I remember rightly you tested the HC 35 f/3.5; the HC 80 f/2.8; and the HC 150 f/3.2. I don't have the HC adapter yet, but Fuji does claim it fires the leaf shutter on HC lenses, which is obviously at odds with what you found. In my view, Fuji has an obligation to get that adapter working with HC lenses. Unfortunately for me, they never claimed it would work with the HC to CF adapter that I am hoping will work, so I took a risk on that I know.

With regard to the HC lenses, my own attempts to examine photos and the MTF graphs at Hasselblad led me to shy away from the HC 35 f/3.5. I think it is the worst of the HC lenses as far as I can tell. I think the 80 f/2.8 isn't really anything special either other than it is quite small. I was tempted by the 150 f/3.2 as a portrait lens, but in the end I went with the CF 180 f/4 which I think will ultimately be better if I can use it with its leaf shutter, and I am also getting the Mamiya 200 f/2.8 APO, which I know is an excellent lens, so I passed on the HC 150. Based on samples and the MTFs I have hopes that the HCD 24 f/4.8 will be an excellent wide solution. I also love the rendering of the 100 f/2.2, which reminds me a lot of the Leica M 75 summilux including it dual nature of being a bit soft and dreamy wide open, but getting quite sharp when stopped down. The 300 f/4.5 I am hoping will be a long portrait solution, but we will see. Of the three HC lenses I got, this is the one that worries me the most about living up to my expectations. For my own use I want HC 100 and 300 primarily for portraits, so I care more about rendering than overall sharpness. I do very much want the leaf shutter to work, however. The HC 24, however, I am hoping will be a good landscape lens, so that one better be sharp or I will be disappointed.

I am not surprised the C (variants) of the 250 f/5.6 superachromat would be very sharp. The MTF graphs and the samples suggest that to be true. Neither am I surprised that the CF 500 f/8 APO didn't work that well. That lens is certainly better than C non-APO lens, but both the MTF graphs and the samples have always left me uninspired. The lens I would really like for long landscapes would be the CFE 350 f/5.6 superachromat, but that is in a whole different price category and I don't want to spend what that lens costs. And then there is the 300 f/2.8 superachromat with the matching 1.7 adapter, but that lens might as well be a myth and comes at a price that seems only fitting for very wealthy collectors. I am impressed by these long lenses but I am not sure any of them are realistic options. They really aren't for me.



May 18, 2017 at 07:51 PM
JimKasson
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · GFX lens adapting woes


Steve Spencer wrote:
As usual you did very thorough testing. Thanks for these tests and all that you have done on your excellent blog. If I remember rightly you tested the HC 35 f/3.5; the HC 80 f/2.8; and the HC 150 f/3.2.


And the 50-110 HC zoom:

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/18081/

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/hasselblad-hc-50-1103-5-4-5-50-110-mm-on-fuji-gfx/


Steve Spencer wrote:
I don't have the HC adapter yet, but Fuji does claim it fires the leaf shutter on HC lenses, which is obviously at odds with what you found. In my view, Fuji has an obligation to get that adapter working with HC lenses. Unfortunately for me, they never claimed it would work with the HC to CF adapter that I am hoping will work, so I took a risk on that I know.


I have yet to find anyone who has gotten the Fuji H-mount adapter to fire the leaf shutters. I'm sure there's some trick I don't understand, as there is a menu entry for turning that on and off.

My Fuji H-mount adapter won't even mate properly with my Hassy V-to-H mount adapter. No big deal, as it turns out, since the Kipon V-to-G adapter works fine.

Steve Spencer wrote:
With regard to the HC lenses, my own attempts to examine photos and the MTF graphs at Hasselblad led me to shy away from the HC 35 f/3.5. I think it is the worst of the HC lenses as far as I can tell. I think the 80 f/2.8 isn't really anything special either other than it is quite small. I was tempted by the 150 f/3.2 as a portrait lens, but in the end I went with the CF 180 f/4 which I think will ultimately be better if I can use it with its leaf shutter, and
...Show more

I'd be interested in your findings wrt the Mamyia 200/2.8 Apo, although I'm pretty happy with the 180/3.4 R lens. . The HCD 24 is not of interest to me since there's going to be the Fuji 23 native lens. My long lens for the GFX is turning out to be the 280/4 Apo-Telyt-R, but that is not an inexpensive lens, and I sure wouldn't by it just to use it on the GFX. I will probably sell the 250 SA since it's such a pain to use on the GFX. There is a rumored 250 from Fuji that may have OSS. I think that will be the way to go. I don't think I'll ever try to use lenses longer than 280mm on the GFX.

Jim






May 18, 2017 at 08:27 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · GFX lens adapting woes


JimKasson wrote:
And the 50-110 HC zoom:

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/18081/

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/hasselblad-hc-50-1103-5-4-5-50-110-mm-on-fuji-gfx/


I have yet to find anyone who has gotten the Fuji H-mount adapter to fire the leaf shutters. I'm sure there's some trick I don't understand, as there is a menu entry for turning that on and off.

My Fuji H-mount adapter won't even mate properly with my Hassy V-to-H mount adapter. No big deal, as it turns out, since the Kipon V-to-G adapter works fine.

I'd be interested in your findings wrt the Mamyia 200/2.8 Apo, although I'm pretty happy with the 180/3.4 R lens. . The HCD 24 is not of interest to me since there's
...Show more

I have the Leica R 180 f/3.4 APO as well so I will be able to compare it directly with the Mamiya 200 f/2.8 APO. I would expect the Mamiya to be a lot better for portraits, but for longer focus distances it will be interesting to see.

My plan is to have a set of leaf shutter lenses, a set of fast aperture lenses, and a set of landscapes lenses.

Right now I am hoping that will be the Hasselblad HC 24, CFE 40 f/4 FLE, CF 60 f/3.5, HC 100 f/2.2, CF 180 f/4, and HC 300 f/4.5 for the leaf shutter lenses.

For fast aperture lenses which I would only use at a 4 by 5 ratio would be: Leica M 50 f/2 AA; Leica M 75 f/1.4; Zeiss Milvus 135 f/2 APO, and Mamiya 200 f/2.8 APO.

For the landscape kit I plan the Hasselblad HC 24 f/4.8; the Hasselblad CFE 40 f/4 FLE; a Rodenstock 60 f/4 Digaron S on the Cambo Actus; a Rodenstock 100 f/4 Digaron S on the Cambo Actus; a Hasselblad CF 180 f/4; and for occasional long focal length shooting either the Hasselblad HC 300 f/4.5 or the Mamiya 200 f/2.8 APO with a tele extender whichever works better.

So, my plan is only to use FF 35mm lenses for the fast aperture kit and I have pretty good hopes that those three lenses will be pretty good for shallow depth of field portraits in a 4 by 5 crop. Suteetat's tests already confirm that the Zeiss Milvus 135 f/2 APO is pretty excellent for this use, and the Leica M 50 f/2 AA is quite nice even if compromised in the corners (which doesn't bother me for this use). He also finds the Leica R 80 f/1.4 works very well, so I am hoping my M 75 f/1.4, which is optically very similar will also work well.



May 18, 2017 at 08:46 PM
RyanFlynn
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · GFX lens adapting woes


I've been using my GFX only with adapted lenses, and it's been great. That said, I don't really use it for landscapes, as I primarily shoot people-oriented images, and typically at wider apertures. I've mostly been using the Nikon 58/1.4 and 85/1.4, as well as the Sigma 35 Art (which works well at portrait-ish distances ... at landscape/infinity distances and apertures, the corners still have quite a bit of vignetting and are pretty soft/smeared.)

FWIW, I don't think the Leica 75 Lux will work well. Someone in the GFX facebook group posted some from it - IIRC it was really only workable in 1:1 mode.



May 19, 2017 at 01:27 AM
Mark Rigsby
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · GFX lens adapting woes


I use the Pentax 67 105 f2.4 on my GFX at almost every shoot. I haven't had a client complain yet!





Pentax 105 f24







2 picture stitch using the Pentax 67 105 f 2.4



Edited on May 24, 2017 at 04:10 AM · View previous versions



May 24, 2017 at 03:44 AM
charles.K
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · GFX lens adapting woes


Awesome shots Mark !!!


May 24, 2017 at 03:57 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · GFX lens adapting woes


Stunning work Mark!


May 24, 2017 at 03:58 AM
Mark Rigsby
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · GFX lens adapting woes


Thank you


May 24, 2017 at 04:10 AM
johnsing
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · GFX lens adapting woes


Anyone looking for Mamiya 200 APO for GFX http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1515523/0?nc=1#14238112


Nov 01, 2017 at 05:34 PM
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