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Archive 2017 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


It's been a couple of months since I posted my loaner 5D4 and 1Dx observations. Those who know me a bit can tell I don't make decisions easily. So please bare with me a little longer, I could use your opinions.

My objective:
To own a combo of two Canon bodies that cover a wide range of different subjects. One small and quiet body, one larger and fast/action body. Basically I want to have two bodies that enable me to tackle any challenge.

Subjects:
- 20% Portraits (adult & kids, outside & studio)
- 30% sports (outside & gyms),
- 30% events,
- 5% travel,
- 10% wildlife,
- 3% architecture/interiors,
- 5% corporate
Video

Current gear is in my profile. I currently have one body: 5DsR. I shoot all of the above with it.

Combo #1: 5D4 (usage 50%) / 1Dx (usage 50%) - around 4800 (Sell 5DsR)
Combo #2: 1Dx2 (usage 80%) / 5DsR (usage 20%) - around 6400 investment

For many months I was thinking to get combo #1. but when I quantify what i shoot and project that on the two combo options, I can't get around thinking that Combo #2 holds much more value. It's a mere 1600 more (which is substantial in itself, but marginal compared to the total investment including the glass) and I think I'll probably be happier shooting the 1D body for most of my work. Also, for those occasional moments, I am very happy having the resolving power of the 5DsR at my disposal.

I have owned some 1D series bodies and I have briefly used some others to evaluate and I really love their handling and feel. Also I do shoot field sports regularly and it does get wet now and then.

In case anyone would suggest to consider 5DsR/1Dx combo, I'd like to say I would like the f/8 61pt option (for 100-400ii + 1.4xiii), the 4k video and the anti flicker for gym sports.

I have tried all af the above bodies. They're all great, so I can't go wrong with either combo. And I am aware that I am the limiting factor, not the bodies. But I like having fine cameras and I have the cash.

So my questions are:
Q1: if you own a 1Dx series and a 5D series, which do you use most?
Q2: which of the two combo's above would you prefer for my subjects?
Q3: am I missing anything obvious when dismissing the 5D4/1Dx combo, i.e. could the 5D4 hold features that I would miss if I'd get a 1Dx2?

Thanks so much.

Ralph



May 08, 2017 at 03:26 PM
Ming-Tzu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Ralph,

My usage of the 1dx and 1dx2 are limited compared to others, so take my words with a grain of salt. Most of my usage is with the 5d3 but acquired the 5d4 a few months ago, and it was the only camera I brought with me to Utah/Arizona for landscape/nature shooting.

Question 1
I think my go-to camera will be the 5d4. Why? It's lighter than the 1d series, and I like the high MPs, which allows me room to crop. I lose the high fps and rugged nature of the 1d series, but I don't really shoot pictures with fast action anyway, and I don't abuse my gear when I don't need to. My shooting consists of probably 20% family/general, 50% landscape/nature, 20% concert photography, and 10% misc. subjects or areas I'd like to venture into (sports, etc.).

Question 2
Since my usage is limited with these bodies compared to others, I'll let them chime in.

Question 3
Same answer as #2

In general, value is something that's subjective. Is the extra $1,600 going to hurt your bank account? If not, go for it. Personally, I didn't "need" the 1dx and 1dx2 as I rarely shoot fast action, but would like to. But I purchased these cameras anyway because I spent too much time lamenting over specs, rather than just spending the money and enjoying the purchase. But I could only do that because I was in a decent position financially. YMMV.

I'm sure others can offer more insightful advice so looking forward to following this post.



May 08, 2017 at 03:46 PM
mogud
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


I'm going out on a limb here and suggest the 5D IV and 5Dsr combo. From your shooting description, you shoot 30% sports which could be done with the 5D IV. The rest could easily be split between the 5Dsr and the 5D IV. I'm assuming that the sports shooting is not serious fast action requiring the fps of a 1-Series body.

My 2-cents




May 08, 2017 at 06:01 PM
Jonesy
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


I ended up getting the 1dx2, selling for 2 5d4's and now have a 5d4 and a 1dx2 lol
5D4's are great but I missed the feel and speed of the 1dx2 so I ended up getting one back lol
The CFAST card is great



May 08, 2017 at 07:24 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


What about 1DX2 and 5D4 combo??
I've owned all 4 of those bodies and that is the combo I've settled on....however I shoot very different things than you do (i.e. all I shoot is birds and some wildlife).
I still have a 1DX also but that is mostly now used for backup or second body on overseas trips.

But the 1DX2 is my goto body for almost everything....recently I've been noticing more and more AF deficiencies with the 5D4 compared to the 1DX2. After using the 5D4 a lot I'm now going back to mostly all 1DX2 shooting...that camera just produces the goods time after time just as the 1DX did before it (when I had 5D3 and 5DSR and 7D2 along side it).

As long as you have one of the 1DX(2) cameras in your arsenal then I think the 5D decision just comes down to needing insane resolution vs a camera that is insanely versatile.

If I were you I'd get the 1DX2 and then look at which 5series works best.



May 08, 2017 at 07:35 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


mogud wrote:
I'm going out on a limb here and suggest the 5D IV and 5Dsr combo. From your shooting description, you shoot 30% sports which could be done with the 5D IV. The rest could easily be split between the 5Dsr and the 5D IV. I'm assuming that the sports shooting is not serious fast action requiring the fps of a 1-Series body.

My 2-cents



I could probably do most action stuff that I want shoot with the 5D4, so you are largely right. But sometimes I just want to have (and use) the higher frame rate. I do confess that part of wanting the 1Dx(2) body is more because I like it so much, than that I absolutely can't do without. I don't make money with sports photography (though I do shoot various other paid jobs).
Maybe this is a bit like needing any car to get from A to B but getting a Porsche and make every ride more enjoyable, and flooring it just occasionally.


Edited on May 08, 2017 at 08:24 PM · View previous versions



May 08, 2017 at 08:23 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Jonesy wrote:
I ended up getting the 1dx2, selling for 2 5d4's and now have a 5d4 and a 1dx2 lol
5D4's are great but I missed the feel and speed of the 1dx2 so I ended up getting one back lol
The CFAST card is great


Yes I suppose for me it's also about the feel of the 1Dx(2) bodies.



May 08, 2017 at 08:24 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


arbitrage wrote:
What about 1DX2 and 5D4 combo??
I've owned all 4 of those bodies and that is the combo I've settled on....however I shoot very different things than you do (i.e. all I shoot is birds and some wildlife).
I still have a 1DX also but that is mostly now used for backup or second body on overseas trips.

But the 1DX2 is my goto body for almost everything....recently I've been noticing more and more AF deficiencies with the 5D4 compared to the 1DX2. After using the 5D4 a lot I'm now going back to mostly all 1DX2 shooting...that camera just produces the
...Show more

5D4/1Dx2 could be nice but is yet a lot more of an investment. Id have to sell my like new 5DsR to get the 5D4 (losing well over 1k, ouch) and if - like you and Brian - I would end up using the 1Dx2 for almost everything anyway, I don't think a 5D4 vs 5DsR would be that much better for those fewer occasions, which would include travel, architecture and some quiet events.

Thanks for providing some insight in what you use most. Now that you say you are going back to mostly using the 1Dx2: I do wonder ... do you use your 5D4 now at all? And if so, for what?

Really appreciate all of your input, thanks.

Ralph



May 08, 2017 at 08:48 PM
Jonesy
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Yes I use my 5div still. I'd say 50/50 lol
I tend to grab it for when I do real estate and still use it pretty often at weddings



May 09, 2017 at 06:16 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Given your subject percentages I would say that a 5D4 would be a lot more versatile and useful. The 1DX covers you for sports where you will be shooting wide open anyways. Getting a 1DX2 for 10% of your work (assuming wildlife is where you need F8 AF) seems kind of overkill.

Your percentages are just volumes though. The real question is what do you consider critical for your work? If that 10% wildlife is what you live for then that's where you spend the money.

At your current decision pace you may have to deal with the prospect of a 1DX3.




May 09, 2017 at 08:08 AM
garyvot
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Things would be a lot simpler (for me) if the 1DX II had 24-26Mp (I would give up some framerate), or conversely, if the 5D IV could do 10fps (or even 8fps). Then I could just buy two identical cameras to use for everything (which I prefer since I always use two bodies on shoots), and the decision would be driven more by cost / size than capabilities.

Cameras today have evolved into so many niches, one must buy one of each to obtain optimal resolution / performance / etc. (I suppose this works for a lot of people, and I am in the minority.)

The 35mm film days were so much simpler, because image quality was a function of the film plus lenses. The choice between an Eos Elan II and an EOS-1v was a pretty straightforward one.



May 09, 2017 at 08:29 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


rabbitmountain wrote:
5D4/1Dx2 could be nice but is yet a lot more of an investment. Id have to sell my like new 5DsR to get the 5D4 (losing well over 1k, ouch) and if - like you and Brian - I would end up using the 1Dx2 for almost everything anyway, I don't think a 5D4 vs 5DsR would be that much better for those fewer occasions, which would include travel, architecture and some quiet events.

Thanks for providing some insight in what you use most. Now that you say you are going back to mostly using the 1Dx2: I do wonder ...
...Show more

I am still using the 5D4. My main drive to use it over the 1DX2 is for the extra pixels. So if I'm going to just walk around finding birds (usually perched or floating) then I will use 5D4 to gain the effective 1.22x magnification from the 10MPs. But if I'm anticipating more action then I will always use the 1DX2. I also still prefer the usability of the 1DX2 with the M-Fn button to switch C modes and the red AF points in AI Servo.

I plan to use the 5D4 on vacations that aren't photography trips and as my main second body. I do still prefer it over the 5DSR that I sold because the 5D4 has much better high-ISO and is a little less technique critical to extract the value of the extra pixels.



May 09, 2017 at 08:42 AM
Plinian
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


rabbitmountain wrote:
5D4/1Dx2 could be nice but is yet a lot more of an investment. Id have to sell my like new 5DsR to get the 5D4 (losing well over 1k, ouch) and if - like you and Brian - I would end up using the 1Dx2 for almost everything anyway, I don't think a 5D4 vs 5DsR would be that much better for those fewer occasions, which would include travel, architecture and some quiet events.

Thanks for providing some insight in what you use most. Now that you say you are going back to mostly using the 1Dx2: I do wonder ...
...Show more


My experience is similar to Geoff's except I'm a little slower to pull the trigger, er, credit card. I picked up the 5dsR shortly after it was released, and discovered that it was an awesome body for wildlife under the right conditions (decent light, stationary subjects, patience while waiting for images to process/transfer). I also traded in a 1dx for a 1dx ii for the same reasons as Geoff (f/8 AF), and couldn't be happier with that decision.

That pair of bodies (1dx2 + 5dsR) work together superbly for wildlife--using the 1 series body for action and/or low light, and the 5dsR for everything else.

My 2 cents on your questions:

Q1: My usage is about 50% 1dx2 and 50% 5dsR, but that of course reflects where and when I happen to be shooting.
Q2: I like my combo; I think you would as well. (5d4 + 1dx doesn't make sense to me--too similar)
Q3: Not sure about 5d4 advantages over 1dx2. Video? Anti-flicker? (I don't use either of those so I'm just not sure).

Greg




May 09, 2017 at 11:04 AM
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


rabbitmountain wrote:
Q3: am I missing anything obvious when dismissing the 5D4/1Dx combo, i.e. could the 5D4 hold features that I would miss if I'd get a 1Dx2?


5D4 advantages vs 1DX2:

Full touchscreen (odd the 1dx2 hasn't been updated to feature this)
C-log video with the upgrade
+10MP
Wifi



Edited on May 09, 2017 at 11:49 AM · View previous versions



May 09, 2017 at 11:48 AM
Mikehit
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


1Dx23 video is better by all accounts, and the 1Dx2 has anti-flicker as well.

I have been swinging madly between 5D4 and 1dx2 and really can't decide. 5DIV will do most of my shots and give an upgrade (albeit not huge) in AF over my 7D2, the 1Dx2 will solve a lot of AF issues, give higher frame rate but miss out on MPs to the 5DIV.

So I start thinking about the frustrations of the 7D2 - missed focus on static subjects in lower light. The 1Dx2 and 5D4 noth addressed that when I hired the cameras.
And accuracy of shooting for BIF - the 1Dx2 (as you would expect) nailed that one!
When shooting things other than wildlife, I have not really had an issue with the 7D2 (I don't think I am as demanding in other situations) so the 1Dx2 and 7D2 seem a good combo.
Then again, I find re-learning focus-recompose with my 6D is a pain and the 5D4 would help solve that. And I can get the 5D4 with a free grip at the moment.

Or maybe getboth the 5D4 and 1Dx - I would hanker after off-centre f8 focussing so not sure the 1Dx solves it.

DAMMIT!!
More thinking, and the end of promotional offers is looming.



May 09, 2017 at 11:48 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


I'd add a clean used 1Dx. I bought a near mint version with less than 11K shots on it to go with my 1Ds3 and I paid $2900. for it. I've only used a 5D2 for a short time but I've great reviews on the 5D4. If you like the feel of the 5D Series, I'd stick with it for continuity. I simply like the 1 Series and don't want different controls between the bodies I own.


May 09, 2017 at 02:46 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


ggreene wrote:
Getting a 1DX2 for 10% of your work (assuming wildlife is where you need F8 AF) seems kind of overkill.

You touch on a crucial variable: how much use would a 1Dx2 get in my bag? You assume 10%, wildlife only. My estimate was 80% 1Dx2, 20% 5DsR, as per my OP. If I were certain about my own estimate, the 1Dx2 would be in the shopping cart already.

It would be plain silly to spend a crazy amount of cash, only to use it for 10% of shots. Based on my time with the 1Dx2 loaner I believe that if I'd own 5DsR/1Dx2, I would grab the 1Dx2 for almost everything. 20mp is plenty for most of what I shoot.

ggreene wrote:
Your percentages are just volumes though. The real question is what do you consider critical for your work? If that 10% wildlife is what you live for then that's where you spend the money.

Very good point, thank you for that. I think that my interests are quite evenly spread. I am a pleaser to my family and clients. I take pleasure in shooting whatever will make them happy. That is why my focus is on a max versatile combo. 5DsR/1Dx2 seems to cover a more extreme range than 5D4/1Dx.



May 09, 2017 at 04:38 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


Since we now know that 1DX2/5D4 is not in the running, I'd vote for 1DX2/5DSR.

I just asked myself if I would rather sell my 1DX2 and use 5D4/1DX or live with 1DX2/5DSR and I'd go for the latter. Like you have mentioned, you will likely use the 1DX2 most of the time and IMHO it is the best camera out there right now. The 5DSR is still a very nice body and I do miss it sometimes when I look back at files from it. I still prefer the 5D4 but I would rather give up 5D4 than 1DX2.



May 09, 2017 at 06:22 PM
sidd
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


FWIW, my shooting combo is (2) - ie, I shoot with 1Dx2 and a 5DS-R. 1Dx2 most of the time (~80%), and 5DS-r for when I need the resolution. Usually at events/weddings, I have both on me.

So I'd vote for (2). You'd lose out on the slightly better shadow detail and c-log on 5D mark IV. Whenever I am shooting to utilize the max resolution (5DS-R in my case), I almost always am on a tripod and/or have control over the lights. For all other cases 1DxII is very very awesome.



May 09, 2017 at 07:33 PM
ross.thomas
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Still in doubt: 5D4/1Dx combo vs 5DsR/1Dx2 combo


I have a 1DX2 and also had a 5Ds. I should have gotten to 5d4. Ended up selling the 5Ds and picking up the A7RII. So my vote is for the 1DX and 5d4 combo. But if you saved longer and got the 1DX2 and 5D4, you'd be ecstatic. You'd also have dual 4K cameras for any video you shoot.


May 09, 2017 at 10:14 PM
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