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jmlavar
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Advice


Hello all, my 12 year old daughter has developed a high interest in photography and editing videos (on iMovie and Premier) She been shooting with a few Canon & Nikon Point & Shoot camera's probably 3-4 year old cameras. Lately she's been wanting to upgrade to a interchangeable lens camera. Any advice on what to get here as a first DSLR or Mirrorless, she's been saving her allowance for the past few months and of course I would help her with some cash as well. I leaning towards used gear.

Thank you for any advice.



May 08, 2017 at 04:25 PM
beavens
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Advice


Used all the way and the Buy & Sell subforum here on FM is an excellent place to get an great deal on a well-treated setup at a very nice discount.

I was brought up with Canon stuff only because that was the platform that had the most sales at the time. With that being said I can't speak much to the other brands (Nikon, Sony, Pentax, Olympus, etc) since I've never put my hands on them.

Here is a pretty sweet little starter setup that gets you an entry-level with two zoom lenses and a capable photo printer: Buydig.com has Canon T6 DSLR Camera w/ 18-55mm & 75-300mm Lenses + Pro-100 Printer & More on sale for $899 - $200 w/ coupon code AFTAMRN17 - $350 Rebate = $349.

Other folks can chime in with ideas/thoughts from the other brands. You might want to get her the same brand as you shoot so you can share gear!

Hope this helps and best of luck,

Jeff



May 08, 2017 at 04:55 PM
jmlavar
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Advice


Jeff, thank you so much for the feedback. I really appreciated.


May 08, 2017 at 05:40 PM
rw11
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Advice


the new Panasonic m43 body is xlnt - GH5 ($2,000)

OTOH, if you already have a bunch of lenses for Canon DSLR and will loan them to her...

or the GH4 should be a lot cheaper now and somebody has a used on B&S now (no relation)

also, buy her an old wheelchair to use for tracking shots - and have her watch some movies to see the difference between zooming and tracking



May 08, 2017 at 06:30 PM
glort
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Advice



I'd second the suggestion of a Rebel.
I bought one to use for my work and my kids loved using it. They were a little older than yours at the time but there seemed to be something about it they took too.
All the jokes about them make me laugh. I have used it for so many professional assignments and the thing has been great. I just bought a 6D and wishing I bought the latest rebel instead. I might go buy one anyway, they are certainly cheap enough and versatile little things. I film all my YT vids on mine and some how just seems better than all the other cameras I have in that application even though there is no real reason why or difference other than the tilty screen.

I bought a couple of the kit lenses and without trying to sound like the typical Photo gear snob, I found them to be really low quality. I don't mean in a high horse "
They aren't L's so can be any good" Kinda way, but really noticeable softness. I wonder if I got a bad pair because others I have seen people have and a couple I have tried didn't seem to be the same so....

My kids always just used whatever was in the bag I wasn't using although I had a selection of Tele zooms atm which was what they used for what we were doing.
People were always a bit amazed at me letting them run round with all this gear but I never had a problem. They knew to look after it and they did. Made me proud of their efforts too.

I remember getting a call from the school when I sent my daughter off on an excursion to the City with one of my old 10D's . I think they thought she took it without me knowing. I think the teacher as doubly taken back when they spoke of her dropping or breaking it and my reaction was " ah well, plenty more where that came from but she'll be right". I didn't think how it sounded till I told my wife about the call. I was only thinking in the back of my mind I had 3 more of the things I didn't use anymore but were still working fine. :o)

I took my kids to a drag Race meeting I was covering one time. I put them up on the grass where I could see them easily from where I was shooting on the track. Had walkie talkies as well so they could talk to me.
My son asked if he could take some pics with the spare camera I left up there with him. I said yes and shortly after he wanted to change position which I said was fine as I could see him. He played for a long while then went sat with his sister again and were happy to watch the action and have a party with the weeks supply of soft drink chips etc my wife had packed them.

I came home, uploaded all the pics and sent out emails to the mags to say where they were. I got one came back with a list of pics they wanted as they were running a feature on that car they were just about to close and wanted to use the shots of the thing in action. One was for the front cover of the mag and the other their centre poster shot. Score!
It was late and I quickly prepped the pics and emailed them off.

Soon as I did that I thought, those pics are from the wrong angle, I was on the other side of the track, where did these come from? I realised they were from the stand and looking at the EXIF to see if I had somone elses pic I woke up they were what my son took.
He got a mag cover and a centre with a couple of inset small shots, I sold nothing. He had the double header... 12 years old. My first published work was at 15 so he was pretty chuffed and I could not have been happier to have been stood up and beaten on that score. He never let me forget it either as I would brag I got published at 15.

Another time I was covering the Biggest horse event in the southern hemisphere.
My son used to run the trailer with the onsite view stations and printing. It was quiet and he wanted to come take pics. I put a vest on him, gave him the rebel and a wide zoom and sent him out to the middle to cover some tall jumps.
Seeing him out there made me so proud and the pics I have of him are some I treasure most. He got right in close to these thundering horses and got great shots. The officials came up and spoke to me about where he was and I called him over and we spoke and he was fine with it and elaborated on how he was watching and listening and could tell when they were off stride and were going to come round or crash. He wasn't standing anywhere he shouldn't, they were just worried abot this little kid out there.
He was 15 then and pretty small for his age at that time ( Shot up well over 6Ft later) but he had big ones and thought it through. Some of the pics I have of him standing out there, the horses Hooves are at his head height and the rest is way above as they went over the jumps.

Once again, we sold more of his pics than anything else. He complained how many I took of him he had to put aside of what we were showing people. So glad I took them now.

He was also a photoshop wizz. In art at high school they learned it and it quickly became seen he knew much more than the teacher... by the teachers own admittance. He would literally get my son to take his classes while he sat there marking papers.
My son questioned the teacher about the time to do his work. The teacher asked the class if there was anyone there that didn't think he shouldn't give him 100% without him turning in a thing. The reply was better he didn't hand anything in and embarrass everyone else any more.

He had a sense of design that left mine for dead. I'd make up a price list giving it my best effort and he would rubbish it and give me heaps. He'd disappear into his bedroom and 30min later come out with something that was incredible. Stylish, hi impact, professional, easy to read and understand and just awesome.
He was going to design a new price list for me with some new products for my T&I but never got the chance. I'll always use the last one he did and just update the prices and my packages will always be the same now. That will always be the price list I use.

He got extra credits in high school for designing different things for concerts and school newsletter etc and later on also designed a few things for the local council as part of being in the youth group. On one occasion he did something that the GM of the council saw but the communications person did their own ( crappy) design instead. When it went for approval, the GM and the committee asked for the other piece they had seen and insisted on that be used. My son got asked to a few mayoral Dinners and awards nights and was presented for different things he did for the council and youth group. Not all of it was for his design work but it was a part of it and there was plenty of his stuff used.

From the little kind wanting to play camera's with Daddy, it took him a long way.
He went into carpentry as a profession as he liked to do photoshop and design but as an interest not as a profession.

I think it is important to encourage these interests in kids because you never know what they may lead to. When they start young, time they get to working age they have knowledge and experience that those wanting to take it up as a job just can't match. Even if like my boy they go a different way, they get experiences and life skills they would not have otherwise. My boy helped me shoot events and often I'd be arranging groups of CEO's and board members of the biggest companies in the country and he'd be directing and shooting them. They used to pick up on that a LOT and admire how he conducted himself. When he got to working age he knew how to talk to people and got every single job he applied for. Some he turned down on good terms because they weren't' what he wanted to do, but he got them.

Whatever the cost of getting your daughter what she wants is irrelevant. It's an investment in her growing up and future. Maybe she will get bored and give it away after a few months, who cares? Guaranteed by fostering her interest and supporting her in it you'll lead her to something else positive and she will have learnt things you ( and she) may not even realise till years later down the track.

the gear is irrelevant. What incredibly more important is that you are supporting and encouraging her in this. She'll remember that for life and will mean so much to her. It may turn out to be a passing fad but it will never be something that is forgotten.

One things for sure, nothing but good will come from you encouraging and supporting her and you are a champion for doing it.



May 09, 2017 at 02:23 AM
Michael White
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Advice


Find something that suits her basic needs in the buy and sell forum here and photographyonthenet.com. I would find a prosumer model less than three olds in her case one that does both stills and motion. If she's really in the motion end then get a 35-50 mm lens with a crop body.


May 09, 2017 at 02:57 AM
jlafferty
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Advice


I'd suggest she get a previous gen (or two) consumer body, and whether Nikon or Canon she can't go wrong. Nikon that would be a D7000, Canon I'm not sure but perhaps a T5i? Canon people would know better. Body shouldn't cost more than $450. Use your budget and then work back from that - if a D7000 level camera is too much $$, step down to the next level, like the D5500.

Then get a cheap 50mm 1.8, usually new at $200, used for $130 or so, and perhaps a decent kit lens, like a 24-105 or 24-120 f/4 - this will be probably the most expensive component at ~$500-650. The 50 will be a lightweight, compact, easy lens to walk around with - it's also "fast" meaning it allows greater freedom working in low light, it also creates the most obvious "this wasn't shot on a phone" imagery with shallow depth of field.

The kit lens, on the other hand, is very versatile, and will allow her to branch out to different shooting styles and explore. If she wants to shoot street stuff, she'll be working in the 24mm-35mm range. If she wants to shoot landscapes, that's 24mm (wider too, but that's later as she develops). Sports, action, wildlife... that's 85mm-120mm (longer too, but again, that's for later). Portraits, 50mm-120mm. Beauty, 80-120mm with the close focusing distance. On a crop camera sensor the field-of-view changes for each of these figures - I've given you full 35mm figures, FYI.

Pick up two media cards, a media card reader, and an extra *name brand only* battery. Reps will try to sell you on cheaper, generic batteries but they are often awful.

All in you're looking at: $400ish for the body, $200-900 for lenses, $45 for 2 media cards, $35 for a media card reader (like the Lexar linked below), $50 for the battery.


https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-D7000-DSLR-Body-Only/dp/B0042X9LC4

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001S2PPT0/ref=twister_B00V8VMLA2?_encoding=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-24-120mm-Vibration-Reduction-Cameras/dp/B00VIQOZJ2?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-32GB-UHS-I-SDSDXXG-032G-GN4IN/dp/B01J5RHBQ4/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494346995&sr=1-2&keywords=sandisk+SD+card

https://www.amazon.com/Nikon-EN-EL15-Rechargeable-Battery-Packaging/dp/B0045KGZOG/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1494346936&sr=1-4&keywords=nikon+d7000+battery

https://www.amazon.com/Lexar-Professional-USB-Dual-Slot-Reader/dp/B00WBK03OU



May 09, 2017 at 04:24 PM
 

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PatrickE
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Advice


You might want to take a look at this in the Buy & Sell.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1488864/0?keyword=x#14025462



May 09, 2017 at 11:45 PM
curious80
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Advice


Any Canon or Nikon entry-level DSLR should be a good choice. Btw I have personally been using a wide range of DSLRs and mirrorless cameras from other brands for many years and there are many excellent choices out there. However for someone who is starting out and looking to grow their photography skills over time, I think the Canon / Nikon DSLRs are still the best starting point simply because they have a much larger number of lenses, bodies and accessories to chose from as you grow.

In terms of lenses, I am generally not a fan at all of the 18-55mm zooms. Not because they are bad lenses, but because they are slow lenses and negate a lot of the advantage that a large-sensor DSLR offers in terms of low-light performance and DOF control. I always recommend starting with something like Tamron 17-50mm f2.8 or the Sigma equivalent. On the Nikon side 35mm 1.8G is also a great first choice in my mind. A 50mm 1.8 is too long on an APS-C camera to be useful as a 'general purpose' lens.



May 10, 2017 at 01:07 AM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Advice


Currently B&H has the D3400 with 18-55 lens for under $400: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1275032-REG/nikon_1571_d3400_dslr_camera_with.html

Also comes with a bag and 16GB SD card. Not the best camera out there, but if you decide to go with a new camera it's hard to beat that price (and the D3400 takes phenomenal images). Though the AF isn't great - roughly on par with say a Rebel t3/4/5i if you're familiar with those. Also no 4k video, but 1080p quality is decent.

Otherwise used cameras have some great options. I'm mostly a Nikon shooter, so I can't speak of other brands too much, but for me I'd look at the D5200 (my first camera, still love it) or D5300, or the D7100 if you want something more robust. Or the D3200, D3300, and D3400 are all great, and might be found used for a steal.

One advantage of Canon is that their 50mm f1.8 is cheaper by about $100 than the equivalent Nikon. Nikon does have another 50mm f1.8 that's the same price as the Canon, but it won't autofocus on the D3x00 or D5x00, and isn't as good wide open. If that's not a factor though, Nikon's entry level cameras are quite good.



May 10, 2017 at 03:07 AM
glort
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Advice



Without derailing too much, how have people that have used them found the 18-55 and the XX-250? Kit lenses?

I found the 18-55 to be particularly woeful. Wasn't nice to use let alone the quality of the images.

Did I get a dud or are they all noticeably soft and muddy?

I just bought a lightweight cheap 18-55 STM lens and I find it quite acceptable.
Not like I look at a shot with it and can see the difference straight off between that and an L series like I could the others and thought " what went wrong??"

Far better than I remember those kit things which are burnt in my memory!


I just re read the OP's post and noted his aughter has been saving her pocket money for a camera. How freaking good is that? A 12 Yo wanting to buy something like a good camera at her age. That always meant a lot to me with my kids, still does.

I remember my son wanting to buy a photoshop book when he was about 14. It was over $100 in the shops and I sat down with him and looked on amazon. He was stoked when we found it for $60 odd all up.

He asked If I could buy it for him and handed me the money. I told him that was no good they didn't take cash and he explained about putting it on my CC and I went round in circles confusing him till he realised I was buying it for him and didn't want the money.

Another time he wanted a new scooter and was stoked when I took him to the place a good distance away to get it. He saw some accessory he really wanted but couldn't afford and was asking if it could be put on later. The other things he wanted had to be fitted and the guy said come back in 30 min and I'll have it done. I let my son walk out the shop and turned back to the guy and told him put the other things on as well. Came back and my son was alarmed because the things were on it and he thought the guy made a mistake. I told him put his money on the counter and asked the guy how much short and put in the difference. Worth every penny seeing the look on his face as he rode it out and then showed his mother when he bought it home. He'd be a long way past riding that now but it still hangs in pride of place on his bedroom wall.

My daughter is going overseas to some Music festivals and around in about a months time. She went interstate for work to try and get the money for the trip and has been saving all she can. She was diligently doing her sums as to how much money she would have to spend on food and other things and was a bit worried.
I asked her about it and she said she'd manage. I said stuff that, you want to go and have a good time, I don't want you to go at all but you will anyway so your mother and I will pay the airfare so you don't come up short.

The condition was she HAS to take plenty of pics of herself in the places she goes on a CAMERA and not a goddam phone and upload them to a folder on my site whenever she can. I looked at her old camera and it's a bit past it and mine are too big for her to carry round so looks like I'll be buying her the camera as well as the tickets! :0)

Who gives a shit about money when it comes to your Kids?
They put in the effort to get what they want, they have learnt well and you have done your job as a parent. From there you can spoil them and make them happy.
Get her whatever the heck she wants. It's an investment in so many things at this age. May as well give them something and let them enjoy themselves while you are around to see it than just leave it to them when they are gone and you can't and they probably won't enjoy it as much anyway.



May 10, 2017 at 04:38 AM
jmlavar
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Advice


Thank you very much for the advice, I think when kids save, and work to purchase things on their own they tend to appreciated more. I want to make sure she understands Needs vs Want.

We were browsing B&H & Amazon last night, she's leaning more towards a Canon 70D, because video is also important for her. I'm very proud because she has a passion about being a creative. We're taking a trip to NYC this Sunday to visit B&H.



May 10, 2017 at 02:19 PM
DesertFoxPhoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Advice


Any of the Rebel series of cameras are fine and used models tend to be pretty inexpensive on Amazon, Ebay or even here on the Buy/Sell forum.

I had both the Xsi and T4i models for quite some time and they were able to withstand a lot of abuse from long hikes, cave exploration, exposure to dusty environments and being accidently knocked around by folks at events. Paired with a kit lens, its a decent set of equipment. It won't be great, but it will do a decent job of capturing photos/video for the price.

If something happens to damage the camera, it won't be too expensive to replace either.

- Matt H.



May 10, 2017 at 03:32 PM







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