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Archive 2017 · Patagonia Trip

  
 
runakid
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Patagonia Trip


Who would you suggest as a tour group? Who to stay away from? Hope to go in 2018 or 2019.


May 06, 2017 at 09:16 AM
GroovyGeek
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Patagonia Trip


Budget? Time off available? There is nowadays a gaggle of photographers running these, some do little more for you than take your money to take you to places you can easily access yourself, on a fixed schedule that does nothing to work around weather conditions. Before signing up with anyone look at their portfolio and see if there is something there you like. Then look at other's portfolios and see if they are the same images.

Here are a few that I am more or less familiar with:

One of the earlier leaders of organized trips to Patagonia that I know of was Thom Hogan. Long trips (3+ weeks), pricey even by Patagonia standards ($10k+), includes stuff like shooting tango in BA. He got caught up in the semi-violent strikes in TDP in 2010 and I don't think he has run a workshop to Patagonia since then.

Ian Plant started running very popular Patagonia trips in 2011 that sell well. Ian's strength is a great eye for subtlety, his ability to capture images that speak to you, with fairly minimal processing is pretty amazing. I just LOVE looking at his work, it has this feel of subtle elegance to it. His weakness is that he (used to) not actively teach during his workshops - that may have changed lately. He will share anything and everything with you, but you have to ask. I believe that Ian is now moving out of the tour business and the Patagonia trips are run by others. You will have to decide if that is worth your time and money. Duration is about 2 weeks, cost nowadays is around $6k which I think includes accommodation.

Marc Adamus used to run trips to Patagonia with similar parameters, 2 weeks, $6k not including accommodation. Marc's style is very different from Ian. He will actively teach in the middle of even the most amazing light, making sure that every workshop participant has a good shot at at the best possible image. He will drive around like a maniac and make on-the-go adjustments to get you to a good location, you have to be prepared to do 100+km/hr on gravel roads, stand in water with 60km/hr winds, and be willing to loose a camera or two to water damage (no, this is not an exaggeration). Marc's style of photography is best described as "in your face", there is a lot of subtlety to his images that tends to get overshadowed by bold post processing. If I have to vocalize a complaint about his worshops is that he is after great images and will often not give his groups enough space to capture "environmental" shots that some may find useful as mementos or just for sharing with friends and family.

Since both Chile and Argentina have made it a hassle for professional photographers to go anywhere but the few well established trails, Marc will no longer be leading his Patagonia workshops. Starting next year he is transitioning to an expedition style trips that will take you on boats to fijords that likely few others (if anyone) has shot, while making you sweat with aggressive hiking. I am sure it is an experience of a lifetime, but it is priced accordingly - $13k, 3+ weeks. If you can swing it financially and can wait till 2019 this would be the one to go for, IMO.

Best time to go is second and third week of April. Second week of April is full-blown fall color in Chalten, third week the fall color starts to turn in TDP. I just came back, some images at the link below, best viewed an somewhat dim artificially lit environment (they look like sh*t on your typical office monitor under fluorescent lighting)

Link

Patagonia is an amazing place, the only place in the world I have ever wanted to go back to.

Edited on May 09, 2017 at 01:22 AM · View previous versions



May 08, 2017 at 08:13 PM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Patagonia Trip


^^ @GroovyGeek - not runakid, but great information you provided, and your images were a treat to look at!


May 08, 2017 at 08:40 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Patagonia Trip


GroovyGeek wrote:
Budget? Time off available? There is nowadays a gaggle of photographers running these, some do little more for you than take your money to take you to places you can easily access yourself, on a fixed schedule that does nothing to work around weather conditions. Before signing up with anyone look at their portfolio and see if there is something there you like. Then look at other's portfolios and see if they are the same images.

Here are a few that I am more or less familiar with:

One of the earlier leaders of organized trips to Patagonia that I know of
...Show more

Some great info here. I have not toured with any of the workshop operators GroovyGeek mentions but it sounds like a good rundown of some of the options.

GroovyGeek - you mention that Chile/Argentina have made it more difficult for professional photographers leading tours. I've heard this also, but as I understand it the only additional requirement imposed (at least by Argentina) is that the tour hires a local guide, who is apparently permitted to then take the group "off trail". I can't confirm this info is accurate, but it's what I've heard.

I've done Patagonia twice - 2015 and again in 2016. I'm seriously contemplating a return trip in 2018.

If you aren't concerned with "teaching" and such, and are comfortable self-touring, it's actually a really easy place to visit without a tour/workshop especially if you're happy with the classic spots for your first visit. This also gives ultimate flexibility and you can tailor it all to your budget. For the best photographic opportunities, avoiding being tied down by a fixed itinerary (especially with accommodation) will help as you can go days and days between any good light at times. I will second the suggestion that second week of April is the best time to visit Chalten/Fitz Roy. The fall colour opportunities here are (IMO) far better than TDP especially if you stick to the easy spots in TDP. Valle Frances may look pretty special at the peak of the colour though.

My gallery containing images captured across both trips is here: http://www.craigholloway.com.au/patagonia/



May 10, 2017 at 03:33 AM
tmiller9
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Patagonia Trip


Aztatlan wrote:
Some great info here. I have not toured with any of the workshop operators GroovyGeek mentions but it sounds like a good rundown of some of the options.

GroovyGeek - you mention that Chile/Argentina have made it more difficult for professional photographers leading tours. I've heard this also, but as I understand it the only additional requirement imposed (at least by Argentina) is that the tour hires a local guide, who is apparently permitted to then take the group "off trail". I can't confirm this info is accurate, but it's what I've heard.

I've done Patagonia twice - 2015 and again
...Show more

I've been twice as well - once on tour - the other on my own. I found the "on your own" option to be very beneficial. As mentioned, the weather can - and - will change at a moments notice. Having the flexibility to move quickly is invaluable (hard to do that in a group).

Craig - wonderful set of images. I am planning a return trip (with a couple of friends) in mid-April 2018 - when are you thinking of going? Would be great to meet.

Todd




May 10, 2017 at 09:25 AM
GroovyGeek
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Patagonia Trip


Aztatlan wrote:
Some great info here. I have not toured with any of the workshop operators GroovyGeek mentions but it sounds like a good run down of some of the options.

GroovyGeek - you mention that Chile/Argentina have made it more difficult for professional photographers leading tours. I've heard this also, but as I understand it the only additional requirement imposed (at least by Argentina) is that the tour hires a local guide, who is apparently permitted to then take the group "off trail". I can't confirm this info is accurate, but it's what I've heard.


The guides are NOT allowed to take you even a foot off-trail. Some will look the other way, others will not. Some will give you latitude early in the morning or late in the evening. None that I was exposed to were willing to bend the rules between 9am and 5pm when the rangers are around.

I am also told that the rangers seriously get on the case of individual photographers who attempt to go off-trail (and get caught).


I've done Patagonia twice - 2015 and again in 2016. I'm seriously contemplating a return trip in 2018.

I agree. I did it in 2011 and returned this year. I can easily see myself returning soon.


If you aren't concerned with "teaching" and such, and are comfortable self-touring, it's actually a really easy place to visit without a tour/workshop especially if you're happy with the classic spots for your first visit. This also gives ultimate flexibility and you can tailor it all to your budget. For the best photographic opportunities, avoiding being tied down by a fixed itinerary (especially with accommodation) will help as you can go days and days between any good light at times.


Yes, the teaching aspect of most tours is negligible. They simply take you places, most of which are the icons, and you pay $300+/day for the privilege. For that kind of money you can hire your own private guide if you need it. If that is all you are after then it is not worth the money. One of the tours I mentioned is, however, very different and the teaching aspect is very significant. I am a half-decent enthusiast photographer, but I learn something every time.


I will second the suggestion that second week of April is the best time to visit Chalten/Fitz Roy. The fall colour opportunities here are (IMO) far better than TDP especially if you stick to the easy spots in TDP. Valle Frances may look pretty special at the peak of the colour though.

Fall color in TDP around Lago Grey are quite impressive too, but not in the same league as Chalten. Valle Frances is on my todo list for the next visit. You can take a boat from Salto Grande to Refugio Pehoe and then hike for about 4-5 hrs without having to do the whole W.


My gallery containing images captured across both trips is here: http://www.craigholloway.com.au/patagonia/

Very nice images. I personally find TDP more photogenic but far more boring to shoot, in the sense that it is almost too easy.



May 10, 2017 at 03:22 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Patagonia Trip


tmiller9 wrote:
I've been twice as well - once on tour - the other on my own. I found the "on your own" option to be very beneficial. As mentioned, the weather can - and - will change at a moments notice. Having the flexibility to move quickly is invaluable (hard to do that in a group).

Craig - wonderful set of images. I am planning a return trip (with a couple of friends) in mid-April 2018 - when are you thinking of going? Would be great to meet.

Todd




Thanks To be honest at this stage a 2018 trip is more of an "itch" for me and not something I've confirmed. I had tentatively pencilled in another trip somewhere else in February which would probably rule out a Patagonia trip two months later so it will depend on that, I think. If I go I'll be aiming to arrive in Chalten around April 7 or 8, approximately with a view towards spending a couple of weeks there.

---------------------------------------------

GroovyGeek wrote:
The guides are NOT allowed to take you even a foot off-trail. Some will look the other way, others will not. Some will give you latitude early in the morning or late in the evening. None that I was exposed to were willing to bend the rules between 9am and 5pm when the rangers are around.

I am also told that the rangers seriously get on the case of individual photographers who attempt to go off-trail (and get caught).


That's interesting info, thanks. I am not sure how much things have changed in 2017 but I can speak for my 2016 (and 2015) experience in saying that there are almost no rangers around. I was harassed by one at Glacier Grey as he believed I had been off-trail but in fact he had mistaken me for someone else. It was quite hard trying to communicate this when his English was so bad and my Spanish non-existent

I also encountered one ranger (on the trail) on the way to Cerro Torre, who for some reason asked me if I had a drone. I did not, and said so, and she went on her way. Those times were the only times I ever saw a ranger in either park.

Did you see many rangers this year?




Fall color in TDP around Lago Grey are quite impressive too, but not in the same league as Chalten. Valle Frances is on my todo list for the next visit. You can take a boat from Salto Grande to Refugio Pehoe and then hike for about 4-5 hrs without having to do the whole W.


Yeah I went up the trail to Valle Frances on my first trip, leaving from Paine Grande, although it was way too early for the fall colour to have peaked.



Very nice images. I personally find TDP more photogenic but far more boring to shoot, in the sense that it is almost too easy.


Thanks, you had some great shots yourself. Weather-wise I've been far more blessed in TDP than at Chalten; I had one ballistic sunset at Fitz Roy last year and otherwise it's been fairly tough on that side of the fence. For that reason any future trip I do would be heavily focused on Fitz Roy side.



May 10, 2017 at 04:05 PM
chez
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Patagonia Trip


GroovyGeek wrote:
The guides are NOT allowed to take you even a foot off-trail. Some will look the other way, others will not. Some will give you latitude early in the morning or late in the evening. None that I was exposed to were willing to bend the rules between 9am and 5pm when the rangers are around.

I am also told that the rangers seriously get on the case of individual photographers who attempt to go off-trail (and get caught).



And rightly so. Those rules to keep on the trails were put in place for a reason...so that the entire eco sensitive area doesn't get trampled to death. The only way to keep the area pristine is to limit access to the area or it will become like many national parks in North America where the nature has long gone out of the park.

I've seen many times in the Canadian Rockies photographers going off the trails, trampling very sensitive lichens and grasses just to get a photograph. This occurs even after being lectured about the rules in the area by rangers for 1/2 during the trip into the area. I've seen one area totally closed off because of the damage done by wandering off the designated trails.

There are more important things to life than getting the shot.




May 10, 2017 at 06:00 PM
GroovyGeek
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Patagonia Trip


chez wrote:
There are more important things to life than getting the shot.


Absolutely, I am not for unabated access to anyone to any place, but the situation in both parks is rather unfortunate. These are pretty large parks with essentially a single trail traversing them and far from sufficient facilities to support the traffic that they see. Nature can be respected and the park may actually benefit from not jamming all visitors onto a single trail and a single campground that turns into a clusterf*ck during high season. If you want to protect the park limit vistors. If you just limit where visitors can go without limiting their numbers you get the worst of both worlds. For those that want to go back-country make it a permit system. Limit the permits, charge foreigners 10x the cost to locals to subsidize local access to the park, enforce the rules with fines that REALLY hurt if caught, etc. What the current park management is doing is simply ignore the realities thus making matters worse.



May 10, 2017 at 10:09 PM
FarmerJohn
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Patagonia Trip


I went in 2016, and we did backpacking for about a week in Torres Del Paine (The "W" Hike) and then we did several days backpacking in El Chalten. We did fine without our own guide, but I will say that finding info about transportation and buses was hard to do online, but much easier once we arrived. When we were in El Chalten, we had good weather, but my friends who were there the week before said it was cloudy the entire time. Definitely take that into account.

The comments about both areas being crowded and the trails being pretty worn down are quite accurate.

I really like a side hike from El Chalten called Pliegue Tumbado. Great view of both Cerro Torre and Fitz Roy if the weather is good. Here's my photo of it with a 3am or 4am start to hike for sunrise




May 11, 2017 at 12:13 PM
Aztatlan
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Patagonia Trip


FarmerJohn wrote:
I went in 2016, and we did backpacking for about a week in Torres Del Paine (The "W" Hike) and then we did several days backpacking in El Chalten. We did fine without our own guide, but I will say that finding info about transportation and buses was hard to do online, but much easier once we arrived.



It's worth noting that if photography is your main purpose for the trip a rental car would be highly advised over buses. You don't need one to hike the W but many of the best photo spots in TDP aren't on the W anyway.



May 11, 2017 at 03:53 PM





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