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Archive 2017 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?

  
 
jbear
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


Hi All,
Well, I came here a couple of weeks ago trying to decide between a Sigma 500/4.5 and another Nikkor 300 2.8 of some iteration + tc. A bunch of responses later...I have a Nikkor 500mm f4 AF-S I on the way. I've got a tc14eII, and 17e, but I am curious as to the results that folks are getting with the 20eIII. I know that monster technique is required, and I am dedicated to improving always, but...it is expensive, so before I give it a shot I'd like to know what is possible with this rig and the right stuff. When I had a 300 2.8 AF-I, I shot for a while with tc20e that I had. The results were consistently <mediocre that I tossed the tc in the bag and didn't touch it for about a year. Then there was a particular opportunity. A bird in the right place in the right light, and all that jazz. No place to set up and too far away, so I figured, well...you know what I figured. I put the whole deal on a stone wall and used a cable...fast ss and low ISO. Well...f5.6 sharp and clear! Who knew?
So...if you have used this combination and have produced quality results...I am interested in hearing about it. For that matter...if you've gotten good results with a 20eII...let me know!
We're talking about a D500 and D750 mostly with this lens, and 17 x 22 max in normal situations. Not looking for wall sized prints of kingfishers.



May 03, 2017 at 04:08 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


I've used the TC-20E III on my 200 f2/300 f2.8 VRs with great results.
I'd never want to start out at f8 using the 500 f4...sacrilege!! YMMV



May 03, 2017 at 04:34 PM
jbear
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


Appreciate the response. Obviously we're talking about a "triceratops grazing at a distance" situation here. I expect to be having a 1.4 on it a bit though. That has worked surprisingly well on the 200-500VR.
Anyway...grateful.



May 03, 2017 at 04:48 PM
morrismike
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


The 1.4 TCIII is really good on a 600 f4 and even 80-400G. For the 600, I'm happy leaving it attached permanently unless trying for little birds really close that move fast. For the 80-400G it's only really useful for shooting really far otherwise cropping is better.

My D500 struggles with the 2.0 TCIII on the 600 f4 and gives me a big F U if I put it on the 80-400G. I was looking at the nikon TC page and supposedly the 500 or 600 wont AF with the 1.7 TC. I was hoping to try a 1.7 but not if it won't AF. I wouldn't dream of putting the 1.7 on the 80-400G.

For some bizzare reason if I put the 2.0 on the 600 f4 and install a nikon1 V3 the VR goes crazy (I have to turn it off) but it actually autfocuses on stationary objects very well.



May 03, 2017 at 10:45 PM
morrismike
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


jbear wrote:
Appreciate the response. Obviously we're talking about a "triceratops grazing at a distance" situation here. I expect to be having a 1.4 on it a bit though. That has worked surprisingly well on the 200-500VR.
Anyway...grateful.


Unless you are shooting fast things up close, you will never remove the TC from that 500 especially if shooting from a car/truck. You might think it is excessive but I shoot fox kits at about 90 yards and 600mm isn't enough, 600 with1.4 isn't enough, 600 with 2.0 isn't enough either. I shoot tree swallows on nesting boxes at about 25 feet with a 600mm and 1.4 and it is perfect.



May 03, 2017 at 10:50 PM
Lance B
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


Like Trenchmonkey, I have used the 2x TCIII on my 300 f3.8 VRII and my 400 f2.8E FL VR with fantastic results, but they are f2.8 lenses and are renowned for their ability to accept all the TC's brilliantly. However, when I had the 500 f4, the 2x TCIII didn't play all that well. It was ok, but you do need to stop down to f11 to get the best out of it and even then it's a little hit and miss. Just remember, you are shooting at 1,000mm and f8 max aperture so you either need a very still subject or a high shutter speed also and this is where things start to go a little bit "hazy" so to speak. I have a sort of rule of thumb and that is that at about 800mm is the maximum I will shoot unless the conditions are almost perfect and that means lots of light and a still subject. This is my 400 + 2x TCIII for f5.6 on the D810 or my 400 + 1.4x TCIII for f4 on my D500.

The problem with the 500 + 2x TC = 1,000mm f8, is you need a high shutter speed to stop subject movement even when you have VR and at a max aperture of f8, but preferably f11, you are fast running out of light. This may put your ISO up high and unless you are able to shoot at a high shutter speed, you then have subject movement issues and all this takes the edge off the image. In other words, it will be rare that you can take advantage of a 500 + 2x TC. My old 500 f4G VR worked very well with the 1.4x TCIII, but I do not know how it would go with the 500 f4 AF-S. My limit on the 500 f4G VR was the 1.4x TCIII.

The best bet is to get closer to your subject. This is what keeps me coming back for more and is part of getting that "elusive" perfect shot. I have been quite successful using my D500 + 400 f2.8E FL VR bare even getting a photo of one of the most elusive birds and quite rare, anyone can photograph, the Ground Parrot (an Australian parrot) which is rarely ever photographed let alone photographed out in the open. This is because they keep to the undergrowth and are *VERY* shy and at any sign of danger they will fly away. Generally, the first you even know of them being nearby is when they are flying off into the distance! In fact, I am quite chuffed about getting this photo. He poked his head up momentarily as I luckily spotted him moving about in the undergrowth, he stopped for a few seconds which allowed me to rattle off a few photos before he flew off at a great rate of knots.

D500 + 400 f2.8E FL VR, 1/640s f/4.0 at 400.0mm iso125






May 04, 2017 at 01:57 AM
Charles Loy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


I've used it on the same lens you have. The 20TCIII can be used on distant STATIONARY subject, or very slow moving such as the moon where you can work with it to focus, but not worth a damn on moving subjects. (Same with the 500 f4G in my opinion). And the TC17II is hit and miss with your lens too, while the 14EII is solid and usable.


May 04, 2017 at 06:04 AM
jbear
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


Thanks for all of the replies...sort of what I figured. I am a biologist, so half the fun for me understanding the behavior and predicting where I should be and when I should be there. Shooting from a kayak has given me access to critters that I would never be able to photograph. The 200-500VR has been amazing in that capacity. Not sure if I have the stones (or room in the boat) to take a 500AFS, but knowing me...I will try eventually.
I share the same mindset of many of you...tc is for when there is no other way to capture.
I will likely try a 20eIII when circumstances arise, but it isn't going to be a priority.
Thanks so much!



May 04, 2017 at 08:41 AM
Photozack81
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


I can't speak to your lens specifically, but I have a 400mm f/2.8 VR and it can handle the 20EIII like it isn't even there. Image degradation is minor, more from the lost light (higher iso) than any glass issues.

AF slows down a little, but it's mainly on a D500, so it's still pretty fast.

You may have issues tracking moving birds as has been mentioned here, but stationary stuff shouldn't be too big of a concern.

That's a nice piece of glass, have fun with it!

RE: kayak - I'd be more interested in the 200-500 for kayaking. Lighter, easier to manage, less weight swinging around to destabilize things.



May 04, 2017 at 11:49 AM
jbear
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · 500mm AFS Mk I...20eIII?


Definitely...the 200-500VR is my go-to kayak lens. It is so easy to handle, and the VR is ridiculous. I've said before that sometimes with the D500/200-500, I feel like I'm cheating
Never had a piece of gear before that made a such a positive impact on my shooting as quickly and of the magnitude that the D500/200-500 has.
Sorry...didn't mean to hijack my own thread.



May 04, 2017 at 11:58 AM





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