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Archive 2017 · Need help with shooting watch Faces

  
 
epalanb
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


Hi Guys,

I am somewhat new to Macro, not new to photography. I have been tinkering with macro and with photographing watches and watch parts for the past several months. I started out really bad, but have improved a lot. I have gotten some pics that I am happy with, but I still have a ways to go. One area in particular that I am struggling with is when I am trying to photograph watch faces/dials straight on without any reflection. I am using a light tent, a tripod, a Canon 2.8-100 macro (non is)

Under the best of circumstances I still see a reflection of the camera in the pic. Any ideas of how to avoid that?

Here are some pics of my setup and a pic of what I am talking about.
Here is my lightbox set up


And with the lights


And a pic of what I am talking about. See the reflection of the camera between the center of the dial and 4 o'clock? It could be worse (and it was for me a while back) but it certainly could be better too!


Thanks for any suggestions



Apr 27, 2017 at 06:07 PM
LordV
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


Can only suggest positioning the lights or use some shading to prevent any light spill on to the camera.
In the example shot you also have some blown highlights.
Brian V.



Apr 28, 2017 at 01:00 AM
e6filmuser
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


What you need is a black tent for your camera, or some other way of keeping light off it.

Reflections off glass may be cutout by a polarizer but the ones off metal probably will not.

Professionals who photograph screens with highly-polished metal in them (e.g on fire engines) spray the metal with an aerosol of fine, oily mist. I don't know the details. That suppresses the shine.

Essentially, starting macro with metallic and glass objects was far from ideal.

Harold



Apr 28, 2017 at 05:57 AM
epalanb
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


e6filmuser wrote:
What you need is a black tent for your camera, or some other way of keeping light off it.


I googled "black tent camera" and nothing obvious comes up. I am assuming an example of what you would be talking about would be a black sheet covering everything except the lens. Right?

I am having a hard time understanding how that would actually work as there needs to be a direct path from the lens to the watch dial/face and that is exactly what is getting reflected.

e6filmuser wrote:
Reflections off glass may be cutout by a polarizer but the ones off metal probably will not.


I bought a polarizer thinking/hoping this would solve the problem. Unfortunately it seems to do exactly nothing for this situation. In fact there is a polarizer on the lense that this pic was taken with. There are other situations where it works. I can tell when I rotate it if it is properly rotated rotated it does work on other things. I don't really understand why it works in some cases and not others, but I do know that for the most part with watch dials/faces etc pics the polarizer is mostly useless and in this case when trying to get a direct straight on pic it is 100% useless.

e6filmuser wrote:
Professionals who photograph screens with highly-polished metal in them (e.g on fire engines) spray the metal with an aerosol of fine, oily mist. I don't know the details. That suppresses the shine.


Interesting idea. I might look into that. Not sure I want to cover an expensive watch with oily mist, but maybe...

e6filmuser wrote:
Essentially, starting macro with metallic and glass objects was far from ideal.

Yes, I would agree you are probably right. I like watches though and I am having fun learning.

Thanks for the ideas

Here are a couple that I liked. If you have suggestions to make them better, I am all ears
This one I managed to avoid the reflection, but I really have no idea why.....


This one has some reflections and I am not sure I like the depth of field focus, but it isn't totally terrible.


This one I like. This is an old elgin pocket watch that I bought off e-bay. All the interesting patterns on the movement is called damaskeening.


Here is another one that I like. It is a super close up of another old pocket watch movement. You are looking at an area here that is probably no more than 1/4" square or so.




Apr 28, 2017 at 08:54 AM
slay12345
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


I'm not an expert here, but I think what was meant by a black tent was just to keep light off of the camera and lens. If no hits the camera, you wont see the camera in the reflection.
Also, you can investigate cross polarization. By using two polarized filters (one on lens plus one on your light source) you can turn the light into polarized light, then remove the polarized reflections with the CPL on the lens. I found a DIY resource on google by searching "cross polarizing light"
I'll recommend a long term solution to understanding light, get a copy of the book "light science & magic" It's an easy read that will help to build a foundation to lighting concepts.



Apr 28, 2017 at 09:22 AM
e6filmuser
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


slay12345 wrote:
I'm not an expert here, but I think what was meant by a black tent was just to keep light off of the camera and lens. If no hits the camera, you wont see the camera in the reflection.


Correct. It is the same thinking as for covert surveillance, where the camera (or binoculars) might be at the back of an unlit room at night. What is not lit cannot be reflected.

An the reason I suggested a polarizer is that the lighting seems to be coming form about 45 degrees. Had it been coming from the camera position it would certainly have been a waste of time. I hesitated to suggest cross-polarizers because that is starting to get expensive and even that may not solve the reflections off the metal.

Anyway there are some good examples of what can be done.

I suspect that there are websites featuring photography of jewellery.

Harold



Apr 28, 2017 at 09:55 AM
tntcorp
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


+ 1 on all comments.

after reviewing the bell&howell and panerai watch images, i would say ar (antireflection) versus the absence of ar coating.



Apr 28, 2017 at 01:32 PM
tntcorp
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


btw, which watch is older, the panerai or the bell&howell?


Apr 28, 2017 at 01:33 PM
epalanb
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Need help with shooting watch Faces




tntcorp wrote:
+ 1 on all comments.

after reviewing the bell&howell and panerai watch images, i would say ar (antireflection) versus the absence of ar coating.

i had not thought of this. Some watches have no anti reflective (ar) coating others have ar on the inside only and others have it on both sides of the crystal.

i believe the b&r has ar on the inside of the crystal & i know the panerai doesn't have it at all. The panerai has a more domed shape to the crystal as well as being made out of plexiglas (much older) where the crystal on the b&r is sapphire



Apr 28, 2017 at 11:03 PM
tntcorp
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Need help with shooting watch Faces




epalanb wrote:
i had not thought of this. Some watches have no anti reflective (ar) coating others have ar on the inside only and others have it on both sides of the crystal.

i believe the b&r has ar on the inside of the crystal & i know the panerai doesn't have it at all. The panerai has a more domed shape to the crystal as well as being made out of plexiglas (much older) where the crystal on the b&r is sapphire


well... keep the same setup, swap out the panerai for the b&h, take another image and post the result. inquiry mind wants to know... :-)



Apr 29, 2017 at 08:52 AM
Archibald
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


You need to get more light on the watch, and reduce light spill everywhere else. Here is an experiment I just did. Two lamps were set up on either side of the subject about 6 inches away and at about 45 degrees, as when doing copy work. I think the quality of the lighting could be improved, but I see no reflections.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2851/33542399513_cce38877f5_o.jpg



Apr 30, 2017 at 12:25 AM
e6filmuser
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


Archibald wrote:
You need to get more light on the watch, and reduce light spill everywhere else.
.

Looking back at the first image, that white table is not a good idea. It probably throws more light on the camera that you think.

Harold



Apr 30, 2017 at 12:40 AM
Archibald
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


e6filmuser wrote:
.

Looking back at the first image, that white table is not a good idea. It probably throws more light on the camera that you think.

Harold


It's not just the white table, but especially the white tent.



Apr 30, 2017 at 12:48 AM
epalanb
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Need help with shooting watch Faces




Archibald wrote:
It's not just the white table, but especially the white tent.


So i am thinking throw a black or dark sheet over the table.

What about the white tent? I'm not sure I'm following you.... You must be suggesting that some of the reflections might be coming from that. If so, what would I try to block/stop that?



Apr 30, 2017 at 06:38 AM
e6filmuser
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


epalanb wrote:
So i am thinking throw a black or dark sheet over the table.

What about the white tent? I'm not sure I'm following you.... You must be suggesting that some of the reflections might be coming from that. If so, what would I try to block/stop that?


Back to basics:

What is the function of the white tent? To diffuse incoming light. Where is the light source? On one side.

A better plan would be to place a diffuser in front of the lamp and not use the tent at all. Shiny objects are probably the least suited to the tent.

Harold



Apr 30, 2017 at 08:18 AM
e6filmuser
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


A picture is better than words. I went outside. I took my rather scrached watch off an placed it on a reversed black(ish) mouse mat.

Using the bright overcast daylight, I shot this (and another 8 similar frames) by available light). By some adjustment of the shooting angle, I believe I have avoided reflections. I also rotated the watch a bit (compass direction) and saw little difference.

I think the lighting setup is making life difficult.

Olympus EM-1, Olympus 4/3 50mm f2 at f9 1/125 second, ISO 400, hand-held.

Harold



Harold Gough 2017




Apr 30, 2017 at 09:39 AM
Archibald
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Need help with shooting watch Faces


epalanb wrote:
So i am thinking throw a black or dark sheet over the table.

What about the white tent? I'm not sure I'm following you.... You must be suggesting that some of the reflections might be coming from that. If so, what would I try to block/stop that?


The tent is acting like a large lamp. It lights up the camera (and the whole room). So the camera becomes a relatively bright reflection.

You need to find a way to increase light on the subject while keeping the camera relatively dark. The camera will still be reflected, but it won't be noticeable because the brightness of the subject will swamp the feeble reflection.

In my example, I just used two lights close to the subject. They were a bit too close giving poor distribution, and there was some undesired glare, so the setup needs to be improved. But it was proof that the reflection can be controlled by lighting.

I don't have much experience or expertise in this type of photography. However, I think you might be able to achieve what you want by continuing with your current setup, but shooting through a hole in a black curtain or large sheet of matte black cardboard placed between the camera and the subject.

Also, the further back the camera is, the less it will be illuminated by the lighting. So a longer focal length should help.



Apr 30, 2017 at 11:06 AM





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