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retrofocus
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Monochrome...


airfrogusmc wrote:
But the only way to know for sure is to do the tests. That requires a densitometer. Two lenses made by the same manufacturer in film days Nikon, Canon even medium and large format lenses had usually a half stop tolerance. There could be a 1 stop difference between two different lenses by the same manufacturer made back to back. Then there is tolerance and that variance in meters. See so without testing you could potentially have huge difference in ASA/ISO rating. Then there's the developer/film/agitation/temp issues.

Three great books on this are by Adams
The Camera
The Negative
The Print

Also Fred Picker's
...Show more

Thanks, I am aware of the first three books, but my preference is the book from Lambrecht "Way Beyond Monochrome" which I find much more of practical use. It is like pixel peeping in digital - we can go to an extreme in everything, for me it simply works well with less sophisticated methods .



Apr 29, 2017 at 01:20 PM
ZoneV
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Monochrome...


Sam_W wrote:
...
Having seen Sony's MF sensor roadmap for the next year, it looks like they've got *multiple* MF monochromatic sensors slated for release over the next year or so.
..


I think all sensors that should sell well for machine vision cameras are made with an additional monochrome version ( not so much additional work).
So you can get a lot of sensors as monochrome versions, but not all.
The comnpany I work for use a lot of different sensors in the cameras, and customers often demand monochrome.



May 02, 2017 at 09:13 AM
genji
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Monochrome...


Wondering if anyone has had any experience with the (Mac only) AccuRaw Monochrome?


May 03, 2017 at 04:22 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Monochrome...


ZoneV wrote:
I think all sensors that should sell well for machine vision cameras are made with an additional monochrome version ( not so much additional work).
So you can get a lot of sensors as monochrome versions, but not all.
The comnpany I work for use a lot of different sensors in the cameras, and customers often demand monochrome.


yup, i was contemplating trying to stick one of the FF "scientific" monochrome sensors in an old film camera for fun, then other stuff came up...

what is the sensor coverglass thickness like on most of those machine vision cameras?

i'm pretty happy just shooting b&w jpeg settings on my a7 and having LR automatically convert the raws to b&w on import.



May 03, 2017 at 07:47 AM
ZoneV
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Monochrome...


sebboh wrote:
..
yup, i was contemplating trying to stick one of the FF "scientific" monochrome sensors in an old film camera for fun, then other stuff came up...

what is the sensor coverglass thickness like on most of those machine vision cameras?
...


This is very different for different sensor sizes and types. At least from 0.4mm to 1.5mm.



May 03, 2017 at 08:26 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Monochrome...


ZoneV wrote:
This is very different for different sensor sizes and types. At least from 0.4mm to 1.5mm.


is it usually uniform for a given sensor so i can just get the data from the sensor supplier, or is it usually specified by the camera maker when they order sensors?




May 03, 2017 at 04:16 PM
ZoneV
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Monochrome...


You can get this data from the sensor supplier. I think most larger sensors are bought in housing including cover glass. To buy the sensor die only and bond it into a own housing needs specialized machines.
So when you have found the correct sensor for your camera you can approach the sensor manufacturer or distributor and ask.



May 03, 2017 at 04:55 PM
ZoneV
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Monochrome...


Sebboh, I have not followed the digital Leica M story closely.
For their (fast) rangefinder lenses I would suppose they have a modified sensor with thinner cover glass, or an IR-cut filter.

In machine vision cameras the cover glass is often the single glass between user and fragile die and bonding-wires.



May 04, 2017 at 05:28 AM
sebboh
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Monochrome...


ZoneV wrote:
Sebboh, I have not followed the digital Leica M story closely.
For their (fast) rangefinder lenses I would suppose they have a modified sensor with thinner cover glass, or an IR-cut filter.

In machine vision cameras the cover glass is often the single glass between user and fragile die and bonding-wires.


it's difficult to get good numbers for leica, but they have certainly weakened their IR cut for their rangefinders and cover glass is in the 0.6-0.9mm range total i believe, which still causes issues for many film rangefinder lenses.



May 04, 2017 at 06:07 AM
 

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billsamuels
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Monochrome...


Hey, you could get your regular DSLR outfitted with an internal B&W Infrared sensor and that would make everything monochrome. Some of the monochrome IR filters do a good job in capturing monochrome images that look like regular monochrome, but you have to do your research first. Check out what LifePixel.com offers and you might find a much cheaper alternative to the Leica monochrome camera.
Good luck.
Bill



May 07, 2017 at 05:49 AM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Monochrome...


what about achrome.


http://www.bwvision.com/phase-one-iq3-achromatic-100mp-review/



May 11, 2017 at 03:44 PM
Mathieu18
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Monochrome...


Ever since I processed the below image in PS and Nik's SilverEfex I've soured on conversions from color sensors. I used a red filter in SilverEfex to darken the sky and ended up having to clean up the whole line between the sky and mountain. Processing decided there was a thin line there that wasn't blue and so lit up white with the filter. In hindsight I do think it may have been a fine sharpening halo, but it made me realize the value of an analogue filter vs. digital. Working with color channels only goes so far before it falls apart.

I'm usually in a "mood" to shoot B&W so the idea of carrying a filter or two doesn't bother me, and I wouldn't really hesitate to just slap a yellow or orange on and go shoot for a bit...

airfrogusmc wrote:
Also there are things that happen in conversion at times with color that are just not issues with a straight B&W file. Without another really long post you B&W converters out there that do a lot of it know exactly what i am talking about.











May 11, 2017 at 05:16 PM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Monochrome...


Mathieu18 wrote:
Ever since I processed the below image in PS and Nik's SilverEfex I've soured on conversions from color sensors.

Good old Chimney Rock!

Yes, conversions can be tricky and not all images lend themselves to treatment in SilverEfex.




May 11, 2017 at 05:34 PM
dmacmillan
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Monochrome...


billsamuels wrote:
Check out what LifePixel.com offers and you might find a much cheaper alternative to the Leica monochrome camera.
Good luck.
Bill

I checked out the link to LifePixel. I looked at samples of all their various filter conversions and didn't see anything approaching the look you get from the MM. There's a fundamental difference in the method used to create monochrome images.



May 11, 2017 at 05:41 PM
Mathieu18
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Monochrome...


What about a MadMax B&W conversion? Seems closer, they apparently remove the Bayer filter?

dmacmillan wrote:
I checked out the link to LifePixel. I looked at samples of all their various filter conversions and didn't see anything approaching the look you get from the MM. There's a fundamental difference in the method used to create monochrome images.




May 12, 2017 at 02:06 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Monochrome...


I would think with all of that you would be better just get an MM.


May 12, 2017 at 02:26 AM
joakim
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Monochrome...


Mathieu18 wrote:
What about a MadMax B&W conversion? Seems closer, they apparently remove the Bayer filter?



If you remove the color filter only without updating the camera firmware I assume the image will still be read as a color image when it is converted from the sensor into digital meaning you loose resolution when multiple sensor pixels gets merged into one image pixel.



May 13, 2017 at 06:09 AM
Mathieu18
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Monochrome...


Apparently there are a couple of B&W programs that will read the files differently, but that is a valid point otherwise. It won't work off the shelf with Adobe etc.

joakim wrote:
If you remove the color filter only without updating the camera firmware I assume the image will still be read as a color image when it is converted from the sensor into digital meaning you loose resolution when multiple sensor pixels gets merged into one image pixel.





May 13, 2017 at 02:11 PM
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