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Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon
  
 
rbf_
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon



Fuji still has a fairly small market share compared to more established cameras but it is growing.



Apr 22, 2017 at 08:00 PM
charles.K
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


cvrle59 wrote:
I've just got back from a grade 7 basketball game, where I used XT2 with 50mm f2.

I haven't seen or touched a9, but judging on previous Sony models and xt2, all these new players, who want to get into sports and wild life, should take some pro camera from Nikon or Canon, to use it for a while and to take some notes.

Canikon shaped it for long time, and every little detail is taken care of. If new players keep inventing the wheel, pro users will keep shooting with Canikon.

I don't want to say it, but mirrorless will
...Show more

Totally agree. The dynamic AF performance of higher end DSLR's still outperform MILC cameras for now. I would love the XT2 to have the same AF performance as the D750/D810 let alone a D500 but they do not yet. I am the first one to despise larger/heavier camera bodies, but for now the range of DSLR's and lenses both new and used is vast so there are choices for those who exclusively involved in serious action photography. I really don't understand why people have an issue with the choices we have.

The A9 looks to break new ground with its silent shutter and fast FPS, but there is questions to the IQ and DR. Personally I think it will be excellent particularly for weddings and journalism where silent shooting and 24MP's are are ideal. With respect to dynamic and erratic AF capabilities I suspect the A9 will be move closer to that of DSLR's but still not at levels many photographers expect. There are many questions relating the specs of the A9 and for now it is best to wait until the first adopters have had experience with the A9 system and the real world reviews start to filter in.




Apr 23, 2017 at 12:27 AM
charles.K
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


chez wrote:
Don't know if all the Fuji shooters are content, but truth be told, this forum has been very silent of late. Very little activity or new posts.


Chez, I really don't understand this click bait comment. There are many Fuji shooters that own multiple camera systems and really who cares and most love their Fuji system. The Fuji system is MILC with their unique philosophy which I love and how they cater to photographers.



Apr 23, 2017 at 12:36 AM
chez
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


charles.K wrote:
Chez, I really don't understand this click bait comment. There are many Fuji shooters that own multiple camera systems and really who cares and most love their Fuji system. The Fuji system is MILC with their unique philosophy which I love and how they cater to photographers.


Charles, what is your problem here. I just stated a fact that the Fuji forum has been slow of late...maybe that is why there has not been much response to the Sony A9 camera, not as much as the Canon or Nikon boards.

What's this about Fuji users love their gear and Fuji catering to photographers comment all about. Exactly what context were those statements addressing.



Apr 23, 2017 at 02:01 PM
justruss
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


I do think this thread itself represents a wee bit of: "The lady doth protest too much, me thinks."

It doesn't take soooo much broad perspective to see that i) here's the Sony A9 being discussed in a thread on the Fuji forum, ironically about how the Fuji forum isn't discussing Sony (!), and ii) in thread that also manages to mention Nikon/Canon. It's a bit like when, during a university film class I was in, one student, in discussing a particular R.W. Fassbinder film felt in pertinent to clarify his own sexuality (totally irrelevant information)-- to which the professor replied, "Yes, and when we need to clarify our own sexuality to others it often means we're actually unsure about it for ourselves."

But look, this is my take: Fuji has an excellent APS-C system (and a new, really interesting mini-MF system), and that's its niche right now. It has produced cameras and lenses of a certain aesthetic and certain IQ/style, and it has carved out a nice corner of the photographic, ILC market. Fuji does a ton right. But the reason the A9 isn't a major topic of discussion is actually, in my opinion, really all about what Chez wrote in his earliest comments in this thread: The A9 is a totally different animal than anything Fuji makes. It's a different animal to anything Sony, until now, in E-mount, has made. It's only even somewhat comparable to CaNikon in terms of their "low" MP, high FPS sports cameras. Fuji isn't even trying to compete in this arena-- which is totally fine. Fuji has its own niche-- and is nailing it in that niche!

That's why I think the A9 isn't a major topic of discussion on this board-- aside from the usual protestations that Fuji users really aren't even thinking about Sony or Canon or Nikon (and of course whatever it means to have to announce such statements as proclamations), and the usual Sony shooters coming it to say Fuji users should be paying attention (should and shouldn't doesn't really come in to play here).

(Side note, and for reference/disclosure: I'm an A7rII shooter, and I'm totally impressed with the A9-- and yet I am not even considering it because of the resolution and price. It's not in my particular market. So I'm more like a Fuji shooter in this scenario... my market is elsewhere from the A9, but it's not because my camera is superior or better... it just caters to different goals. Oh, and I love the Fuji XT-2 and the f/2 primes... really awesome stuff.)



Apr 24, 2017 at 09:53 AM
Tim Ashton
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


George Orwell wrote:
The "disruption" that mirrorless is doing to the camera industry is like a mosquito bite on an elephant compared to what the smart phone did. Making profits selling just cameras is becoming nearly impossible. That trend is continuing even with the rise of mirrorless. Revenue continues to decline. Mirrorless sales are not replacing DSLR sales in the amount needed.

The transition from film to digital was good for the camera makers. The current transition is TERRIBLE.



An interesting aside to the smartphone phenonomen that I have observed via my daughters friends is that since I bought her a Panasonic GM 5 (Micro 4/3; small enough to fit in hand bag with amazing good kit zoom) at least three of her friends have followed suit, primarily because Henrietta's postings on instagram are so superior to anyone elses. Sure she uses her phone but when it counts, out comes the GM5 and people notice.
Maybe there is hope for real cameras?
Tim



Apr 24, 2017 at 04:47 PM
rbf_
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


I have noticed that young people growing up doing photography on their smartphones are passionate about photography and it's very much a big part of their day to day lives. I think connecting with that and creating entry cameras that they see worthwhile as a step up from their phone cameras is a key to attracting them. I've noticed the X-A3 has a touch screen, touch to focus and a flip up display for selfies that would be desirable to smartphone photographers and I know other small mirrorless cameras are trying to attract this market as well. The new X-A3 now comes in a variety of different colors as well just like the Fuji Instax which I hear is a top seller for Fuji and very popular with young millennials. In fact I think the colored Fuji Instax film cameras are making more money than the X series if you can believe that. I think the growing interest in photography driven first by point and shoots and now smartphones is the key thing to be optimistic about and focus on.


Apr 25, 2017 at 01:49 AM
ariel777
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


I have a rather complete lineup of both Nikon and Fuji bodies and lenses.....far more than I "need". I enjoy both lines as needed, or more appropriately, as desired. It's a hobby and I treat it as such. If I want a relatively lightweight setup, obviously I go with Fuji. Otherwise, it's Nikon. My principal pursuit is birding, both BIF and BIP. Unfortunately, I found Fuji to come up woefully short in this area when compared to the seasoned Nikon menu. So I maintain two rather complete systems. I tried Sony and found it convoluted and far less user friendly than I cared to tolerate. I frequent both the Fuji and Nikon boards and do not find any level of discontent or extreme disputation with or on either.


Apr 25, 2017 at 07:51 PM
 

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George Orwell
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


Tim Ashton wrote:
An interesting aside to the smartphone phenonomen that I have observed via my daughters friends is that since I bought her a Panasonic GM 5 (Micro 4/3; small enough to fit in hand bag with amazing good kit zoom) at least three of her friends have followed suit, primarily because Henrietta's postings on instagram are so superior to anyone elses. Sure she uses her phone but when it counts, out comes the GM5 and people notice.
Maybe there is hope for real cameras?
Tim


Nope, there is no hope. I went to my daughter's final theatre performance this week. She's in the 4th grade and there are 4 total class rooms in her grade. Close to 200 parents and relatives showed up for the performance. 100% of the families document their child's final 4th grade performance. Out of that there was a SINGLE DSLR there taking photos. Not one mirrorless camera, not one compact camera. Every last parent aside from the guy who brought his DSLR was using their phone.

This is in a school district where the average salary is 20% or more higher than the national average. Very well off people go to this school.

I'd LOVE to hear the CEO's of Canon and Nikon respond to what happened in that theatre that night.




Apr 27, 2017 at 11:24 PM
George Orwell
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


rbf_ wrote:
n fact I think the colored Fuji Instax film cameras are making more money than the X series if you can believe that.


A LOT more money than X cameras. That's easy to believe. Fuji said in 2016 that they sold 5.7 million INSTAX cameras. This year will be well over 6 million sold. Then there is all the film that these cameras eat. Enormous reenue and actual profits for Fujifilm. In just a few months Fuji will release 2 new INSTAX square film cameras which should again boost sales substantially.

In contrast, right after the Fuij X100T was released a marketing guy mentioned that the X100 series of cameras was the biggest seller of all the X cameras. Sales amount? All of 150,000.

Even today film butters more of Fuji's bread than all their digital cameras put together.



Apr 28, 2017 at 12:52 AM
Lee Saxon
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


jcolwell wrote:
A9 high-fps spec blows away the 1D-series and D4/D5-series cameras, but it'll take a while to evaluate hype vs. hope


I put in my guess very early on that the 5fps mechanical shutter speed was going to be the real shutter speed because of rolling shutter / shutter skew - at *least* with flash. Red had to roll a custom sensor which is very expensive and has some yield problems to hit 6K with fast enough readout to avoid it (though to be fair Weapon 6K is 75fps not "just" 20). I think the A9 global shutter is going to be useful for silent shooting (concerts?) but not for high speed.

I should've put money on it because I am very anxious to find out if I'm right.




Apr 28, 2017 at 11:28 AM
cputeq
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


George Orwell wrote:
Nope, there is no hope. I went to my daughter's final theatre performance this week. She's in the 4th grade and there are 4 total class rooms in her grade. Close to 200 parents and relatives showed up for the performance. 100% of the families document their child's final 4th grade performance. Out of that there was a SINGLE DSLR there taking photos. Not one mirrorless camera, not one compact camera. Every last parent aside from the guy who brought his DSLR was using their phone.

This is in a school district where the average salary is 20% or more
...Show more

Easy....most people dont know the difference a good camera would make for video, so they dont get one. I think if they were to sit down and evaluate A/B comparisons, many more would buy real cameras.

It is all about marketing and educating consumers, something the camera companies are still pretty bad at doing.

The other explanation-- phones are getting damned good at being good enough. My sister in law just posted a wonderful frame-worthy shot of her young daughter playing in the beach sand, great framing and nice bokeh...from her iphone 7.



Apr 28, 2017 at 12:16 PM
cvrle59
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


My small world tells me, that majority of people are happy with what they get out of the phone, especially, with all the convenience and price they pay for a common device, which does so much for them.

So many videos popping up all over the net, are still made in vertical phone position, and that simple tells me that for so many people, it's just about to record something. Don't those people realize that most of today's displays are 16:9 horizontal. Obviously, it's not important for them.

To me, this exactly like listening music. MP3, phone with cheap headphones, car stereo, and so on...majority of people are quite happy with those, and only rare ones would put their hand deep into the pocket to get some expensive high end audio.

I see this similarity to be applied to photography too. Only pros and enthusiasts who enjoy photography differently than the crowed, will spend big bucks to get expensive camera with a few lenses, majority will be very happy with their phones.

Let's face it, the phones are getting better and better, with all kinds of neat features that advanced cameras still lack of, plus, convenience to do selfies, too...

My problem is that I appreciate quality in photography as well as in audio, which costs me some bucks. I'm not complaining, but my wife reminds me from time to time, that my hobbies aren't cheap...



Apr 28, 2017 at 12:47 PM
ggreene
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


cputeq wrote:
Easy....most people dont know the difference a good camera would make for video, so they dont get one. I think if they were to sit down and evaluate A/B comparisons, many more would buy real cameras.


In my experience they know there is a difference in quality. They are simply unwilling to lug around a dedicated device that only does one thing. No amount of marketing from camera companies will alter that fact.



Apr 29, 2017 at 06:22 PM
Pavel
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Sony A9 and Nikon/Canon


I know several people who have high end cameras able to shoot video and fine lenses. They shoot most video events with their iPhones. I think photo-entusiasts sometimes forget how not everyone wants to deal with all the headaches of working with something like a Panasonic GH5 and having to post process things on a computer and then hours later share it. The phones nowadays are in the same position as Full Frame, aka Micro cameras were once relative to 4x5 or medium format. They are good enough, often much more than good enough and the no hassle aspects make them king.

Some like to continually point out how important IQ is. Well, how come it is that they don't show up with a Medium Format Camera at every event, and take the giant IQ step backwards with the second best FF Digital?
If history is any guide, "convenient" trumps "Best in class" every time, leaving only the pixel peepers scratching their heads and protesting the state of things.



Apr 30, 2017 at 02:12 AM
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