Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              61      
62
       63       64       end
  

Pre-order: Sony A9
  
 
MJKoski
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #1 · p.62 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A9


You do not pull the mass of CaNikon pros to Sony camp with this. Not *now* without long lenses. It may be the trickster hobbyists which are after this device. Skateboarder crowd as you expressed it.

You pull long lens folks to Sony camp, the others will follow.

A7 series, be it mk1 or mk2 were ONE design scheme. ONE. If that has not changed this first model of 9-series will dictate the design of all following 9-series models. I would be very (positively) surprised if r and perhaps s -models would not have the same minefields (currently unknown) present.



May 19, 2017 at 01:23 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #2 · p.62 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A9


tn1krr wrote:
Since the DR compromizes are heavily discussed in comparison to A7R II, D4, D5 etc. let's take a brief look into latest data estimations (updated today, Bill has gotten more data to work with) from Bill Claff

Other than 2/3 stop loss when compared to A7RII on base ISO the A9 seems to hold it's own quite ok. A hypothetical wealthy/clueless blogger with a purse will be just fine.

A comparison between A7R II, D4, D5 and A9 (estimate)


Exactly the point I was trying to make above. The A9 won't be class leading at base ISO DR, but it won't be terrible either. It will be in the middle of the pack and we need to be careful not to exaggerate and say that middle of the pack is bad. Despite what MJKoski says, you will be able to recover a lot of shadow noise. I often shoot the A7rII at ISO 640 and you can recover a lot of shadow noise at this ISO. I never turn blacks up 100, but I often turn shadows up to 50 or so in LR and it handles turning blacks up by 30 and shadows up to 100 very well at ISO 640. The A9 at ISO 200 will have much better DR than the A7rII at ISO 640, and even better yet performance at ISO 100. So, although the DR of the A9 is not class leading at base ISO (and is only middle of the pack), it really will allow a lot of shadow recovery and have very nice performance.



May 19, 2017 at 01:23 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #3 · p.62 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Just to be clear this is the first line in Sonys description of the A9. I know it marketing but it clearly states SPEED


Bringing the speed Sony mirrorless shooters have been waiting for, the Alpha a9 Mirrorless Digital Camera takes impressive multimedia capabilities and ups the processing capabilities for ultra-fast continuous shooting. Making use of a 24.2MP full-frame Exmor RS stacked CMOS sensor and BIONZ X image processor, the a9 is



May 19, 2017 at 01:26 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #4 · p.62 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Steve Spencer wrote:
Exactly the point I was trying to make above. The A9 won't be class leading at base ISO DR, but it won't be terrible either. It will be in the middle of the pack and we need to be careful not to exaggerate and say that middle of the pack is bad. Despite what MJKoski says, you will be able to recover a lot of shadow noise. I often shoot the A7rII at ISO 640 and you can recover a lot of shadow noise at this ISO. I never turn blacks up 100, but I often turn shadows up
...Show more


The world starts at ISO 640. Whenever I shoot the A7rII if I have to go faster instead of like ISO 400 I'll jump right to ISO 640 . That's when the benefits start kicking in.

This is really overhypedto be honest. Anyone worth there salt with raw processing can do just about anything. The raw data is there you just need to make the balance



May 19, 2017 at 01:30 PM
joelRichards
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #5 · p.62 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Steve Spencer wrote:
Exactly the point I was trying to make above. The A9 won't be class leading at base ISO DR, but it won't be terrible either. It will be in the middle of the pack and we need to be careful not to exaggerate and say that middle of the pack is bad. Despite what MJKoski says, you will be able to recover a lot of shadow noise. I often shoot the A7rII at ISO 640 and you can recover a lot of shadow noise at this ISO. I never turn blacks up 100, but I often turn shadows up
...Show more

WHAT?! Reason? Rational thought?! This is the internet man! You're kind is welcome here!
/sarcasm

Seriously, thanks for summing this all up in a clear and concise way. The internet echo chamber is a dangerous thing.



May 19, 2017 at 01:30 PM
bjornthun
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #6 · p.62 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A9


When I got the Nikon D300 back in the autumn of 2007, I pretty much stopped worrying about sensor performance, since it ran circles around the D70, not to mention film. The current crops of cameras from Sony et al are much better, but I can remember when 400 ASA was fast film. Oh, ASA, that's ISO now.

I'm pretty sure I could use an A9 with good results for anything. Of course the A7RII would beat it at low ISO, but still the A9 would be nice too.



May 19, 2017 at 01:31 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #7 · p.62 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
You do not pull the mass of CaNikon pros to Sony camp with this. Not *now* without long lenses. It may be the trickster hobbyists which are after this device. Skateboarder crowd as you expressed it.

You pull long lens folks to Sony camp, the others will follow.

A7 series, be it mk1 or mk2 were ONE design scheme. ONE. If that has not changed this first model of 9-series will dictate the design of all following 9-series models. I would be very (positively) surprised if r and perhaps s -models would not have the same minefields (currently unknown) present.


It's built for the future. They are already pulling folks into the Sony camp without the long glass. You forget those 10 thousand dollar Canon lenses can be used on Sonys and folks will make that transition over time. I did it and so did many others. Folks will buy the A9 and slowly transition there lenses to native. Almost everyone has done this exact same thing. I did it coming from Nikon, Fred did it coming from Canon and today neither one of us has a Nikon or Canon lens anymore and many have done the exact same thing. Start with the body as a add on than slowly make that transition. This is proven on just about every forum thread out there on making the switch. It takes time you just don't sell 10 lenses from. Canon and buy Sony that suicide for a Pro. It's a process and it starts with the body. This A9 will see more Pros starting that process more than the A7 series.



May 19, 2017 at 01:38 PM
Steve Spencer
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #8 · p.62 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
You do not pull the mass of CaNikon pros to Sony camp with this. Not *now* without long lenses. It may be the trickster hobbyists which are after this device. Skateboarder crowd as you expressed it.

You pull long lens folks to Sony camp, the others will follow.

A7 series, be it mk1 or mk2 were ONE design scheme. ONE. If that has not changed this first model of 9-series will dictate the design of all following 9-series models. I would be very (positively) surprised if r and perhaps s -models would not have the same minefields (currently unknown) present.


You are right that Sony will need to build good long lenses with great performance. Expect a 400 f/2.8 by the end of the year. It will take them about 3 years, but expect them to have the glass in place and an A9 mkII for the Tokyo Olympics. I think Sony knows full well they can't compete very well for the Sports market today, but I think they certainly are gunning to compete for that market by 2020. What will Canon and Nikon do by then? I don't think they will have a camera that will be able to be close to competitive with the A9 MKII by then. They won't have a camera with zero viewfinder black out. They won't have a camera close to 20 fps. They won't have a camera with a silent shutter. They won't have a camera that has anywhere near the AF coverage across the frame that Sony has. And I expect that Sony will have a fully global electronic shutter with sensor readout of about 1/320 in that A9 MKII. Canon and Nikon will be years and years behind at that point.
The mirror imposes physical limitation that are just now becoming obvious in comparison with the A9. Those physical limitations will still be there in 3 years holding back DSLRs when the A9 MKII makes another leap forward. Canon and Nikon are not in an enviable position. They really need to start developing a camera that can compete with Sony that isn't held back by the physical limitations of the mirror, but the bad news is that their current huge advantage--their very impressive line of lens--will less of an advantage and more of a liability as time goes on. Sony will be developing their long lenses designing them for mirrorless cameras. Canon and Nikon lenses are designed for DSLRs and the beautiful line of lenses won't work as well with a mirrorless camera and will need to be redesigned. Canon has the money and the breadth of operations to take on the challenge and I think they will start building mirrorless cameras and redesign their lenses, but they came to this game late and they will be well behind Sony. Given there market share, name, and resources, they can stay in the game. I am less sure that Nikon can and both of these companies will be behind and trying to catch up by 2020 or so and Sony will have a distinct advantage for a number of years.



May 19, 2017 at 01:39 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #9 · p.62 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Steve Spencer wrote:
You are right that Sony will need to build good long lenses with great performance. Expect a 400 f/2.8 by the end of the year. It will take them about 3 years, but expect them to have the glass in place and an A9 mkII for the Tokyo Olympics. I think Sony knows full well they can't compete very well for the Sports market today, but I think they certainly are gunning to compete for that market by 2020. What will Canon and Nikon do by then? I don't think they will have a camera that will be able
...Show more

To add Sony today went after the journalist, event, wedding shooter. Sports focus Los are more down the road. Sony knows that but most Pros right now need the 70-200 for wedding, journalists, event type work and that market is way bigger than the sports market by a truck load. In August they have there holy grail trio of zooms. And I agree we will either see a 400 2.8 or a 300 2.8 coming out this year.



May 19, 2017 at 01:46 PM
Matt Grum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #10 · p.62 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
Let's think of a following case: A (wealthy) blogger person bought A7mk1 with bunch of lenses and used it happily for his/her adventures so far. Size was okay, weight almost zero and the kit did not slow him/her down when chasing down the bucket list around the world. (S)he collected a lot of awards from flickr and 500px on the way with bling bling content from exotic places around the globe.

Now (s)he notices a new shiny A9 was released with <-------------------------------> this many promises of happiness and bling. And speed. (S)he shoots some rocks down the beach at 20fps afterwards
...Show more

Wow you're really clutching at straws now. Pretty much every flagship model is worse than the lower tier in at least one metric. As I said earlier the entry level D3300 has fewer megapixels than the D4 - how will your hypothetical wealthy blogger person possibly cope with that? This has become asinine - I'm not going to repond to any more of these posts.

P.S. estimated DR figures for the A9 hint it may be slightly ahead of the Nikon D4, which makes most of your earlier post moot.



May 19, 2017 at 01:50 PM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #11 · p.62 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
You do not pull the mass of CaNikon pros to Sony camp with this. Not *now* without long lenses. It may be the trickster hobbyists which are after this device. Skateboarder crowd as you expressed it.

You pull long lens folks to Sony camp, the others will follow.

A7 series, be it mk1 or mk2 were ONE design scheme. ONE. If that has not changed this first model of 9-series will dictate the design of all following 9-series models. I would be very (positively) surprised if r and perhaps s -models would not have the same minefields (currently unknown) present.


Your design disadvantage is your design disadvantage not the overal markets. Sure smaller camera means smaller buttons. But people don't want to carry truck loads of gear anymore. Those days are over and people are switching to mirrorless cameras. Most folks here want smaller with that comes compromises. You want glove work. Guess what you don't count in there design. Sorry but you need to understand that and you obviously have a real problem you can't do that. Move on to a system that does. Sony is not it for you



May 19, 2017 at 01:55 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #12 · p.62 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Honestly I had enough of this thread so I'm out but I'm after buying a A9 no question about it as I see the value of it clear as a sunny day here in the desert. I'm a Pro and they finally built a Pro camera for my needs. I'm saying thanks to Sony by buying one. They hit the nail on the head here and after over 40 years trying to buy the right tool, finally someone put Guys name on it. Thanks

Edited on May 19, 2017 at 02:07 PM · View previous versions



May 19, 2017 at 02:05 PM
k-h.a.w
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #13 · p.62 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I am sure, unless there gets something botched in manufacturing, the A9 will be a pleasure to use, not just by pros!


May 19, 2017 at 02:07 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #14 · p.62 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A9


k-h.a.w wrote:
I am sure, unless there gets something botched in manufacturing, the A9 will be a pleasure to use, not just by pros!


Totally agree this wili tickle a lot of hobbyists fancies .



May 19, 2017 at 02:08 PM
MJKoski
Online
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #15 · p.62 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I am gonna get one of these at least as a loaner, but not for speed. Instead pulling it through all kinds of "wrong" use cases. Let's see how chickens fly then. Expect all kind of motion related abuse and shooting in dark toilets against bright light.

First test is already thought out: Crank freezer to maximum and see how long the new battery lasts @ -25C in one go.



May 19, 2017 at 02:15 PM
joelRichards
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #16 · p.62 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Steve Spencer wrote:
This site does a very good job measuring dynamic range, IMO and they have had an estimate of the A9s dynamic range for quite some time. It doesn't look nearly as bad as the dpreview article seems to suggest.


Total guess on my part, but Sony suggested that this sensor "works differently" in some ways maybe it holds onto to highlights better. Still prob not by more than a stop (so total DR behind A7RII) but since DP Review only looked at the shadow noise, that might explain the difference between the two prelim findings.



May 19, 2017 at 02:19 PM
GMPhotography
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.62 #17 · p.62 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
I am gonna get one of these at least as a loaner, but not for speed. Instead pulling it through all kinds of "wrong" use cases. Let's see how chickens fly then. Expect all kind of motion related abuse and shooting in dark toilets against bright light.


In all honesty your needs should come down to a tech cam with mechanical shutters and lenses. They handle the cold very well. Phase One backs are pretty cold friendly. You get the tilt and shift your after but it's going to cost you . That's a given. But it really maybe the only tool that can work for you the way you want. You can find a used 50 mpx CMOS back for a decent price.



May 19, 2017 at 02:22 PM
floppy86
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #18 · p.62 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A9


MJKoski wrote:
I am gonna get one of these at least as a loaner, but not for speed. Instead pulling it through all kinds of "wrong" use cases. Let's see how chickens fly then. Expect all kind of motion related abuse and shooting in dark toilets against bright light.

First test is already thought out: Crank freezer to maximum and see how long the new battery lasts @ -25C in one go.


I don't know how I survived with only a plain vanilla A7 in Upstate NY the last 3 winters. Had to buy a bigger car just to fit in all the spare batteries.

I'm glad there are people like you running all kinds of technical tests at home, so that actual photographers have more space to take pictures out in the world.

Chapeau.



May 19, 2017 at 02:26 PM
bjornthun
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #19 · p.62 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A9


For those who don't know, Norway, Sweden and Finland are neighbours inhabited by four peoples, Finnish, Norwegians, Samis and Swedes. We all know warm summers and cold winters, and we use all kinds of cameras with success during all seasons of the year! 🍀🌞☔️☃️

I use Sony mirrorless in Norway, even in the winter. ☃️❄️



May 19, 2017 at 02:39 PM
k-h.a.w
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.62 #20 · p.62 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A9


bjornthun wrote:
For those who don't know, Norway, Sweden and Finland are neighbours inhabited by four peoples, Finnish, Norwegians, Samis and Swedes. We all know warm summers and cold winters, and we use all kinds of cameras with success during all seasons of the year! 🍀🌞☔️☃️

I use Sony mirrorless in Norway, even in the winter. ☃️❄️


Well said. All sorts of cameras work quite well here in the mountains of Northern New Mexico.
From my house I can see snow on the mountain tops from late October until early June.
And it can get pretty warm in the summer - but luckily always low moisture!



May 19, 2017 at 02:51 PM
1       2       3              61      
62
       63       64       end






FM Forums | Sony Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              61      
62
       63       64       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password