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Archive 2017 · Pre-order: Sony A9

  
 
notherenow
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p.37 #1 · p.37 #1 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Each generation of camera with a fully silent electronic shutter has been better than the previous.

My two cameras (both around three years old, a GX7 and an A7s) have a silent shutter.

The GX7 is ok but has plenty of limitations (I can make it band or have horrid rolling shutter at will), the A7s is a bit better but still has its limits.

This camera I think is a whole new level.

Every camera so far (at least with a larger sensor) has been made to use a mechanical shutter with the electronic shutter added for extras.

This one is the other way around it seems and I can not believe Sony wouldn't put this thing out if it wasn't ready. It is probably version 20 or 30 really that they have been working on for many years.

Has there been anyone that went to the launch and has used it say anything really negative? I see lots wanting to show pics but can not until the embargo is lifted.

I think many are going to be surprised by this and I want to see what the non Sony sports pros that went have to say.


The main reason I mentioned the weather sealing is that when someone DOES break the camera when it gets dunked is the haters are going to magnify many times over.

Regardless of it being Sony or other, this (a camera with a MAINLY electronic shutter) is going to be the future.



Apr 23, 2017 at 01:11 AM
Stoffer
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p.37 #2 · p.37 #2 · Pre-order: Sony A9


ggreene wrote:
As you can see by that second photo most pros are using 2-3 bodies. Easy enough to cover the supertele on a monopod but the other two are out in the open for easy access. On the sidelines of FCS playoff games I see a lot of cameras/lenses in a beat up state. Is the A9 ready for that kind of day in and day out abuse? Time will tell. Maybe photographers habits will change and they will suddenly treat ML camera's with kid gloves.


Yeah, those are valid points of course. But I have faith that professional photographers are clever enough to figure out whether a A9 will fit their specific demands regarding "abuse" and being weather-sealed enough. It will be a great tool of certain types of sports, maybe not so much for others.

I look at it as an interesting alternative to the 1D X/D5, because it brings some other features those two hasn't. Would make more sense for Sony to build a clone of the 1D X/D5 with pretty much the same feature set? Probably not, who would buy that?

Another point to make is that A9 is first generation. If a lot of pros demands a bigger, more rugged build, then that might come in an A9 II down the line. But to be honest I still don't think Sony is going after the market that demands a big, supertank camera.

Anyway, it is the technology with the stacked sensor that I'm excited about, not so much the A9 as a camera. So not trying the defend the decisions behind, just pointing out that Sony might not see this as an be-all sports camera for everyone.



Apr 23, 2017 at 02:53 AM
Matt Grum
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p.37 #3 · p.37 #3 · Pre-order: Sony A9


snapsy wrote:
Notice how the shape of the electronic curtain shutter is curved to match an actual mechanical shutter This is done to match up the light-blocking properties of the 2nd mechanical curtain when the camera operates in EFCS mode. Note that the RX10II actually has a leaf shutter rather than mechanical, so this is likely just the same silicon/firmware that is used on their mechanical shutter bodies like the A7 series for their EFCS mode.


Actually what you're seeing is the effect of lens distortion correction.

I doubt they try to match the curvature of the physical curtain at all (though they do simulate it's acceleration), as this would dramatically complicate the readout, needing to keep many lines of the sensor "open" at once instead of reading line by line.

This is another reason for various evenness of illumination problems when using EFCS at high shutter speeds as the electronic reset is extremely neat and doesn't have the natural variability or imperfections of the physical second curtain.



Apr 23, 2017 at 04:00 AM
wallpapervikin
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p.37 #4 · p.37 #4 · Pre-order: Sony A9




Only 3:2 and 16:9 aspect ratios...

Pretty lame



Apr 23, 2017 at 06:40 AM
wallpapervikin
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p.37 #5 · p.37 #5 · Pre-order: Sony A9


stevesanacore wrote:
Excellent video that answers many questions. Thanks for the link.



Only 3:2 and 16:9 aspect ratios unfortunately...

Thats pretty lame




Apr 23, 2017 at 06:41 AM
ggreene
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p.37 #6 · p.37 #6 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Stoffer wrote:
Yeah, those are valid points of course. But I have faith that professional photographers are clever enough to figure out whether a A9 will fit their specific demands regarding "abuse" and being weather-sealed enough. It will be a great tool of certain types of sports, maybe not so much for others.


I think it will definitely get some use as an alternative body for events needing quiet gear. The ability to use adapted lenses will certainly help in getting people to try it as well. As a 1DX/1DX2 user I am going to rent one and see how it performs. I just don't see it replacing that combo anytime soon as currently constructed.

Stoffer wrote:
I look at it as an interesting alternative to the 1D X/D5, because it brings some other features those two hasn't. Would make more sense for Sony to build a clone of the 1D X/D5 with pretty much the same feature set? Probably not, who would buy that?


I don't think they needed to make a clone as I think the modular vertical grip is a better design if it's solid. Certainly they could have made the body wider to give some better button placement and finger gaps on the horizontal grip. Max posted in another video that he had to jam his fingers in with the 24-70 and 70-200 GM lenses so it's not just the 100-400 that has that issue.




Apr 23, 2017 at 06:49 AM
snapsy
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p.37 #7 · p.37 #7 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Matt Grum wrote:
Actually what you're seeing is the effect of lens distortion correction.

I doubt they try to match the curvature of the physical curtain at all (though they do simulate it's acceleration), as this would dramatically complicate the readout, needing to keep many lines of the sensor "open" at once instead of reading line by line.

This is another reason for various evenness of illumination problems when using EFCS at high shutter speeds as the electronic reset is extremely neat and doesn't have the natural variability or imperfections of the physical second curtain.


It's not lens correction; the same curvature occurs on the A6300 with lens correction off (can't turn it off on the RX10II). It's matching the shape/shadow of a physical shutter curtain as it would appear over the focal plane. You can see it in the actual physical curtains when shooting above x-sync without HSS on an A6300 using the mechanical shutter. Correction for it wouldn't complicate readout - the transformation can be applied to the data by the ASIC after it's been moved into the frame buffer.



Apr 23, 2017 at 08:40 AM
nandadevieast
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p.37 #8 · p.37 #8 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Sonyalpharumors has a camerastore tv link on its page. Nice things said.


Apr 23, 2017 at 08:51 AM
snapsy
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p.37 #9 · p.37 #9 · Pre-order: Sony A9


snapsy wrote:
It's not lens correction; the same curvature occurs on the A6300 with lens correction off (can't turn it off on the RX10II). It's matching the shape/shadow of a physical shutter curtain as it would appear over the focal plane. You can see it in the actual physical curtains when shooting above x-sync without HSS on an A6300 using the mechanical shutter. Correction for it wouldn't complicate readout - the transformation can be applied to the data by the ASIC after it's been moved into the frame buffer.


I did a few more experiments and I think the curvature is the effect of lens distortion (rather than correction or shutter shape) because on my RX10II the curvature flips from concave to convex between as I move between the focal lengths. On my A6300 I have a 40mm attached and it roughly matches the concave shape of that same focal length on the RX10II, and the curvature lessens as I stop down.



Apr 23, 2017 at 09:13 AM
arbitrage
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p.37 #10 · p.37 #10 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Someone mentioned this over in the Canon boards' thread on the A9 (popular camera with running threads in Canon, Nikon and Fuji boards right now).....the camera can't do AF when aperture is above f/11. When we hear these type of stats for DSLRs it just means that if you have too many TCs on the lens and can't go wider than f/11 it won't AF (usually an f/8 limit) BUT my understanding is that with the Sony this f/11 limit is anytime you set your aperture to smaller than f/11....so for example if one wants to shoot race cars and pan to show motion/tire blur then in sunny conditions one usually will have to go slower than f/11 and that will not allow AF? Is that correct? That would be a limitation for the camera if that is how it works....possibly this would affect airshow shots with people wanting prop blur also??


Apr 23, 2017 at 09:23 AM
Ken_Cravillion
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p.37 #11 · p.37 #11 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Does the battery charger come in the box? I can't find an answer to that.


Apr 23, 2017 at 09:47 AM
AGeoJO
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p.37 #12 · p.37 #12 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Ken_Cravillion wrote:
Does the battery charger come in the box? I can't find an answer to that.


No, no external charger is included and it comes with just a single battery .



Apr 23, 2017 at 09:53 AM
chez
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p.37 #13 · p.37 #13 · Pre-order: Sony A9


AGeoJO wrote:
No, no external charger is included and it comes with just a single battery .


That to me is a big boner on Sony's part. They can make it all good by sending you a charger with battery when you register the camera.



Apr 23, 2017 at 09:57 AM
GMPhotography
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p.37 #14 · p.37 #14 · Pre-order: Sony A9


I agree you should get a charger. If I buy this I'm hoping they have the battery plates for my dual charger. There just a couple dollars. But Sony should at least give you a cheap wall charger


Apr 23, 2017 at 10:00 AM
AGeoJO
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p.37 #15 · p.37 #15 · Pre-order: Sony A9


They sell it as a kit, which consist of the external charger, a spare battery and a pinky extender for $300 extra.... Ouch .

Edited on Apr 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM · View previous versions



Apr 23, 2017 at 10:04 AM
Matt Grum
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p.37 #16 · p.37 #16 · Pre-order: Sony A9


arbitrage wrote:
Sony this f/11 limit is anytime you set your aperture to smaller than f/11....so for example if one wants to shoot race cars and pan to show motion/tire blur then in sunny conditions one usually will have to go slower than f/11 and that will not allow AF? Is that correct? That would be a limitation for the camera if that is how it works....possibly this would affect airshow shots with people wanting prop blur also??


I think this limitation is due to Sony's inexplicable decision to always focus stopped down (yes I know there are issues with focus shift, but they will have long gone by f/11, and I know they have claimed it's to reduce lag but that doesn't explain why the camera couldn't open the aperture just a few stops).

If you want motion blur in strong light then you have a few options. ND filters, obviously. DSLR lenses on adapters generally offer the ability to focus wide open (this is certainly true of Canon lenses on the Metabones adapter). Finally if you're doing panning shots at f16 you can probably just pre-focus as your DOF will be quite generous.




Apr 23, 2017 at 10:08 AM
Ken_Cravillion
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p.37 #17 · p.37 #17 · Pre-order: Sony A9


AGeoJO wrote:
No, no external charger is included and it comes with just a single battery .


---------------------------------------------

chez wrote:
That to me is a big boner on Sony's part. They can make it all good by sending you a charger with battery when you register the camera.


---------------------------------------------

AGeoJO wrote:
They sell it as a kit, which consist of the external charger, a spare battery and a pinky extender for $300 extra.... Ouch .


Fantastic. I guess I'll pre-order the "cheap" $88 charger and a couple extra batteries from Amazon because charging in camera is stupid and a pain in the ass.



Apr 23, 2017 at 10:12 AM
snapsy
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p.37 #18 · p.37 #18 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Dpreview: Sony a9 shooting experience: Here's why I'm impressed

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/4934566891/sony-a9-shooting-experiece



Apr 23, 2017 at 10:44 AM
Weasel_Loader
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p.37 #19 · p.37 #19 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Had high hopes for this to finally make the leap from my Nikon D4, but I'm afraid the weather sealing still isn't up to Canon/Nikon pro bodies. I'm sure it'll have enough for about 75% of sports shooters, but I shoot in some of the harshest environments (rodeo), where dust and mud is constant (I shoot with a rain cover even when it doesn't rain in some cases).

The A9 looks to be a real game changer indeed. Its only the buffer clearing and weather sealing that has me holding back. No doubt, Sony WILL eventually address these as they are just getting started and I'm sure big glass (400/2.8, 500/4, 600/4, etc) will follow soon.



Apr 23, 2017 at 01:25 PM
nandadevieast
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p.37 #20 · p.37 #20 · Pre-order: Sony A9


Whats up with buffer clearing?


Apr 23, 2017 at 01:51 PM
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