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My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV
  
 
Ruffo
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


Pixel Perfect wrote:
After today's announcement it might be the A9. I might just sell my 1DX for this, but need to see if there is a 500 f/4 in FE mount coming from Sony or preferably Sigma for sensible pricing.


I think Canon should immediately respond to this threat by putting the 1DxII at $4500.00 to match Sony.




Apr 20, 2017 at 05:06 AM
Vancouver47
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


TeamSpeed wrote:
Despite liking that feature myself, I have yet to find a real photographic situation where that was actually useful. At least where the scene was so dark I could hardly make out details....


True here as well. Other than for amusement, I have not used the Live-View really low light AF yet, but I frequently find low light situations the 1DxII and 5D4 will AF where I know the 1Dx would not or would be balky trying to lock AF through the viewfinder.



Apr 20, 2017 at 12:50 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


The A9 seems like an interesting concept. Two concerns I would have is the practical use of the EVF: is it bright enough in low light and easy enough to pick focus points. I admit I haven't looked through any EVF since about ten years. And that was a cheap compact camera.
Second, will it track accurately with the fine canon lenses. 20 fps is overkillto begin with but it remains to be seen how many shots will be in focus.



Apr 20, 2017 at 08:54 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


The EVF is a 3686K 100+fps screen, these EVF are almost to the point it seems like you are seeing the scene optically.

Here is a review of that EVF:


The new EVF on the A9 is also fantastic. The A7R II, which I had by my side, already has a great-looking EVF, but the one on the A9 has an even higher resolution 3686k-dot screen, making for an even better user experience. One of the big features about the Sony A9 is the blackout-free shooting experience. In both the EVF, and on the LCD, the camera does not blackout between frames when continuously shooting with the electronic shutter.

In normal single-shot or mechanical shutter shooting modes, the EVF's refresh rate is set at 120fps, making it easy to follow moving subjects.
...Show more

Edited on Apr 21, 2017 at 05:34 AM · View previous versions



Apr 20, 2017 at 09:09 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


rabbitmountain wrote:
The A9 seems like an interesting concept. Two concerns I would have is the practical use of the EVF: is it bright enough in low light and easy enough to pick focus points. I admit I haven't looked through any EVF since about ten years. And that was a cheap compact camera.
Second, will it track accurately with the fine canon lenses. 20 fps is overkillto begin with but it remains to be seen how many shots will be in focus.


The video I saw of the EVF in action a low light interior was excellent, no graininess, no tearing (it's OLED), crystal clear, like an OVF and it's normal mode is 120fps



Apr 21, 2017 at 01:04 AM
arbitrage
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


The EVF looks amazing...that won't be an issue with this camera as it is in most of the other ML cameras.

The issues with this camera will arrive from real-world functionality and the fact there is no worthwhile long/fast glass for it. They are trying to target a market that they have no chance to break into with their current lens lineup. Everyone who has switched to Sony already is ready to drop $4K on a new A7R3 or A7S3 but they aren't going to waste a cent on this A9 because they know what they really want (whether they are video or landscape orientated) is coming sometime soon.

Even on the multi-page thread on the Sony forum I haven't seen anyone say they are going to buy this thing. In fact I asked that question over there and so far no one has replied with a mention of buying it.



Apr 21, 2017 at 01:15 AM
stanj
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


"The already great A7R2 EVF [...]" - right, next to my 5DSR OVF the A7R2 was outright awful to use from a viewfinder perspective (other than deep at night, when it allowed me to see _something_). So even if the new one is twice as good, it's still not good enough. I'm by no means opposed to the idea of an EVF, but the technology simply isn't there yet to make me happy.

And then there's the rest of the Sony ergonomics, that's a whole different story. Don't get me wrong, they have the best sensors and probably best EVFs, but they certainly don't have the most usable system.



Apr 21, 2017 at 04:02 AM
EB-1
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


The EVF has 1280x960 resolution. That does not seem like much.

EBH



Apr 21, 2017 at 04:36 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


That is just about an entire HD monitor shrunken down to the size of an eyepiece... More than adequate if that is indeed the dimension.


Apr 21, 2017 at 05:16 AM
 

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Pixel Perfect
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


EB-1 wrote:
The EVF has 1280x960 resolution. That does not seem like much.

EBH


It's very high resolution for a screen which is about 3/4" square. Traditional HD is 1280x720 and that looks good on a 5" smartphone, on such a tiny image screen, the ppi is very high, much better than Apple's Retina displays.

I wouldn't be worried about the res at all, I'm using and older m/43 and it's only 800 x 600 and looks sharp enough.

My only real complaint is where are the freaking big gun lenses in FE mount. I'm praying Sigma is already well advanced on them as they are promising a lot more FE mount lenses, and surely it wouldn't be big redesign for their 500 f/4.



Apr 21, 2017 at 05:35 AM
stanj
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


TeamSpeed wrote:
That is just about an entire HD monitor shrunken down to the size of an eyepiece... More than adequate if that is indeed the dimension.


My eye/brain combination begs to differ. You can try me in a double blind test, I'll identify the EVF every time.



Apr 21, 2017 at 05:36 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


I hadn't used an EVF for a while and saw a guy shooting butterflies with an X-T1. We briefly swapped cameras - gotta say with repect to the EVF, it was pretty bad.

The A9 is unproven - good luck to those swallowing the marketing jazz.



Apr 21, 2017 at 07:29 AM
marsh9077
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


arbitrage wrote:
The EVF looks amazing...that won't be an issue with this camera as it is in most of the other ML cameras.

The issues with this camera will arrive from real-world functionality and the fact there is no worthwhile long/fast glass for it. They are trying to target a market that they have no chance to break into with their current lens lineup. Everyone who has switched to Sony already is ready to drop $4K on a new A7R3 or A7S3 but they aren't going to waste a cent on this A9 because they know what they really want (whether they
...Show more

Well said arbitrage.

When I first saw the specs for the A9 I had to do a double take they were so amazing and I was ready to put my pre-order in right after reading them but then reality set in and realized for my needs Sony just does not have the lens that compare to Canon. For my wildlife needs the 1dx2 matched with a 500mm v2 or 600mm v2 is unbeatable.

No if Sony comes out with a new 500mm or 600mm lens to match up with the A9's specs then I think Canon and Nikon are in big trouble.

Oh yeah and to answer the original question about the 1dx2 vs 5d4 my vote goes to the 1dx2, but that is coming from a wildlife guy. But I think it all depends on what your trying to get out of the camera. Me personally being a wildlife guy I did not even consider the 5d4. Honestly the biggest selling point for me on the 1dx2 is all focus points at f8, I absolutely love this for when I am using 2x extenders. The 14fps, the amazing AF system and high ISO features are also a major bonus and selling point for me as well.



Apr 21, 2017 at 01:11 PM
garyvot
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


marsh9077 wrote:
No if Sony comes out with a new 500mm or 600mm lens to match up with the A9's specs then I think Canon and Nikon are in big trouble.


I wonder. Specs are all well and good, but what matters is practical use for the professional action shooters Sony hopes to target. For serious work at high speed, this camera will require use of the battery grip, so it won't end up being that much more compact than a 1DX II, and of course, lens size and weight will be similar. The smaller body may even be a detriment compared to the proven shooting ergonomics of the big Canon and Nikon cameras.

20 fps vs. 12 or 14 fps? Well, assuming the camera can track focus at that framerate, that could be a benefit in a few specialized applications. But I'm quite comfortable shooting sports at 10fps and rarely miss anything due to framerate (most misses are my own making). I'm not sure that framerate alone is worth switching entire systems over.

No viewfinder blackout? That could be cool. Except that EVFs are never real time, no matter how good, and still have other compromises. Maybe Sony has gotten close enough for the hobbyist, but I wonder if that will be true for the professionals who depend on these systems every day.

Don't get me wrong--I like this camera, particularly the improved ergonomics, which finally are approaching DSLR territory. The compact size, sweet spot image resolution, the improved control layout, IBIS, EVF performance, all would have made this camera an exceptional "all rounder" at a different price point for anyone who shoots in a photojournalistic style. It doesn't need 20 fps for that.

But as a 1DX 2 / D5 killer? Not so sure, even with the right lenses.

Also, getting a bit jaded by the whole "DSLRs are dinosaurs" hype that seems to have settled everywhere. There are shooting situations where optical viewfinders are simply superior. For professionals and enthusiasts, DSLRs can live side by side with mirrorless.

It's like the photographic community is reliving the whole "post PC era" nonsense where iPads were going to replace all of our desktops and laptops. The PC didn't die, and neither will the DSLR, at least in the specialist ILC market that's left in the wake of smartphones.



Apr 21, 2017 at 05:27 PM
anselwannab
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


TeamSpeed wrote:
That is just about an entire HD monitor shrunken down to the size of an eyepiece... More than adequate if that is indeed the dimension.


The image is not the size of an eyepiece, it's apparent size is much larger. Like holding an iphone about 1-2 inches from your eye. At least I want fairly large viewfinder image.

Where the A9 would have an inherent advantage is to make up for the EVF lag, it was always taking pics that were rejected until the shutter button was tripped, then it could actually keep a few frames from before the release. No DSLR could ever do that.



Apr 21, 2017 at 05:46 PM
TeamSpeed
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


There should be no discernible lag at 120fps refresh. And my comment was that the EVF contains something pretty close to a 1080P monitor shrunken down to an LCD display that is perhaps .5" in physical dimensions with an eyepiece multiplier that might be .7x.

If a 1080P monitor has been good enough for years for laptops, tablets, etc. at normal viewing distances, then looking at something like that shrunken down through an eyepiece that might emulate the monitor being at some reasonable viewing distance, the resolution should be good.

There are so very few mirrorless that have that kind of EVF resolution. I think there is a Leica that has quite a bit more (4.4M), and then a Lumix is in the running as well.



Apr 21, 2017 at 06:18 PM
Fabian Henries
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


This whole discussion about the Sony A9 has made me stop and think for a few days now. I was envisioning a new camera body for the next 5-10 years, thinking the 1Dx mark II could be a strong choice. However, as I have not bothered with forums much for the last decade except when I got the Sony last year, I have missed the discussions about the trends of MILCs possibly taking over dSLR bodies. Slowly but surely, might be the opinion.

This may or may not be the case. Fact is that my line of thinking about a replacement body was based on the "good old" times when dSLR bodies were the #1 choice for serious photography. What if I decide to spend a good deal of my budget on a new beastly dSLR like the 1Dx mark II, only to find out that in about two years time Canon releases a FF MILC that can do everything and more?

After reading up on the MILC cameras I do see pros for my situation, one of which being DPAF for shooting field curved or just "difficult" lenses wide open, like the 50L. Another interesting part is quiet shutter operation. If Canon releases something resembling the A9 with a FF sensor and at least 10fps, which should be easy given what the Sony can do - including tracking - I could regret having bought a 6000 camera that sells used for a mere 3-4k.

What I'm trying to say, be it a bit ineloquently, is that i am very pleased with the discussion here because things are not as straightforward in 2017 anymore and I'm glad you helped me off the one track line of thinking I had.

Need some more time now to think this through.

Fabian





Apr 24, 2017 at 12:17 PM
Khun Hans
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · My next Canon camera: 1Dx mark II or 5D mark IV


stanj wrote:
"The already great A7R2 EVF [...]" - right, next to my 5DSR OVF the A7R2 was outright awful to use from a viewfinder perspective (other than deep at night, when it allowed me to see _something_). So even if the new one is twice as good, it's still not good enough. I'm by no means opposed to the idea of an EVF, but the technology simply isn't there yet to make me happy.

And then there's the rest of the Sony ergonomics, that's a whole different story. Don't get me wrong, they have the best sensors and probably best EVFs, but
...Show more

I bought and sold a Sony 7II because of the VIEWFINDER and the whole handling of the camera.
Then I bought and sold the Leica SL which is known for the best viewfinder in the market (even better than the A9 from the specs) because of the EVF.
Can't life with all these awful EVF. Never can match an optical VF as the D810 and 5DM IV.




Apr 24, 2017 at 02:27 PM
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