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If you were creating a great photo computer, what would i...
  
 
charlyw
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p.7 #1 · p.7 #1 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


15Bit wrote:
For the normal consumer it's not too bad - Home or Pro. Though of course you generally get whatever was bundled with the computer.


And both versions of Windows 10 violate your privacy badly...



Jul 18, 2017 at 07:40 AM
form
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p.7 #2 · p.7 #2 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


That's why there are website links dedicated to describing how to disable all those privacy incursions.

BTW...if you're looking to build a pc for yourself, well I know how and I could definitely do it since I've done it before for myself. Happy to help/build it. I actually enjoy building them :/ weird.



Jul 18, 2017 at 07:45 AM
charlyw
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p.7 #3 · p.7 #3 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


form wrote:
That's why there are website links dedicated to describing how to disable all those privacy incursions.


And if you knew what all those privacy incursions includes you would know that despite all the best efforts of those websites you are screwed as there are enough left to make your hair curl if you care about your privacy...



Jul 18, 2017 at 08:00 AM
charlyw
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p.7 #4 · p.7 #4 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


form wrote:
BTW...if you're looking to build a pc for yourself, well I know how and I could definitely do it since I've done it before for myself. Happy to help/build it. I actually enjoy building them :/ weird.


I have done that for more than 30 years, I've had it with all the tinkering, I even went as far as designing and building prototype interface boards to use ECB graphics cards on a TRS-80 knock off running CP/M - I just don't care about the innards anymore as long as the operating system is well designed and doesn't get into the way of using the computer - and that's only true for MacOS and Linux (although keeping that current is a chore all by itself, especially with Poettering in charge of crucial system services)...



Jul 18, 2017 at 08:05 AM
elkhornsun
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p.7 #5 · p.7 #5 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


First choice would be a 2010 Apple Quad Xeon equipped workstation. In 2018 Apple will be releasing a new series of Mac Pro computers and I hope that they go back to a standard box that provides more options for third party components.

The Mac operating system is at least twice as efficient as Windows and it shows in batch processing time needed for RAW image files as well as when doing color grading of video. It also requires 1/100th as much time to keep it running as compared to any version of Windows and it is infinitely more secure from hackers and malware and spyware.

Building your own computer is like building your own car. You will not save any money and you will spend/waste a lot of time in the process. Consider that you will pay at least double and often 4 times as much as a computer manufacturer for every part that you buy for a DIY white box computer. So even if your value your labor at 10 cents an hour the cost is still going to be higher.



Jul 22, 2017 at 11:30 PM
EB-1
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p.7 #6 · p.7 #6 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Some people like building and working with computers, just as some like working with cars or old manual cameras. To each his/her own.

EBH



Jul 23, 2017 at 02:49 AM
15Bit
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p.7 #7 · p.7 #7 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


charlyw wrote:
And both versions of Windows 10 violate your privacy badly...


That is a big problem, and one that plays a little on my mind what with the lack of support for new hardware in Win7. I would like to move over to Linux as a Desktop OS, but i am still stuck with too much software that is Windows only (not even OSX compatible).



Jul 23, 2017 at 09:33 AM
form
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p.7 #8 · p.7 #8 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I don't think any of my computer building experience felt like wasting time, and I did save money since I didn't have to pay for a combination of components I didn't want...

Just not sure about that logic at all.



Jul 24, 2017 at 12:28 AM
 

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Paul Mo
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p.7 #9 · p.7 #9 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


form wrote:
I don't think any of my computer building experience felt like wasting time, and I did save money since I didn't have to pay for a combination of components I didn't want...

Just not sure about that logic at all.


Indeed. Building PCs is an enjoyable learning experience. I built my main PC about 4 years ago and it still runs like new. I predict I'll get at least another 5 or 6, or more, years out of it as my main rig.

Built another, much cheaper PC, in about 40 minutes as a NAS/JBOD rig. Child's play.

Pending updates - wants and not needs - would be higher resolution monitors.





Jul 24, 2017 at 01:59 AM
CanadaMark
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p.7 #10 · p.7 #10 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


elkhornsun wrote:
First choice would be a 2010 Apple Quad Xeon equipped workstation. In 2018 Apple will be releasing a new series of Mac Pro computers and I hope that they go back to a standard box that provides more options for third party components.

The Mac operating system is at least twice as efficient as Windows and it shows in batch processing time needed for RAW image files as well as when doing color grading of video. It also requires 1/100th as much time to keep it running as compared to any version of Windows and it is infinitely more secure from
...Show more

So much misinformation I don't even know where to start...I'm sorry but this is simply not true and grossly exaggerated.



Jul 24, 2017 at 05:06 AM
mbphoto_2.8
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p.7 #11 · p.7 #11 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I built new rig over winter. Should've waited abit longer though.

Now I would go with a Threadripper and Radeon Vega.

I cool everything with water and use a Samsung M.2 ssd for software and a 500GB SSD for image processing. Two raids (2x2 and 2x1 TB) for safekeeping of files inside the computer and a 5x3 TB Raid 5 for external backups.

My current rig is based on a core i7, but I will get the RX Vega, because I like to play a game every once in a while.



And yes, building computers is a hobby and can consume time an money, but it's also a lot of fun.



Jul 24, 2017 at 11:58 AM
EB-1
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p.7 #12 · p.7 #12 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


elkhornsun wrote:
First choice would be a 2010 Apple Quad Xeon equipped workstation. In 2018 Apple will be releasing a new series of Mac Pro computers and I hope that they go back to a standard box that provides more options for third party components.

The Mac operating system is at least twice as efficient as Windows and it shows in batch processing time needed for RAW image files as well as when doing color grading of video. It also requires 1/100th as much time to keep it running as compared to any version of Windows and it is infinitely more secure from
...Show more
CanadaMark wrote:
So much misinformation I don't even know where to start...I'm sorry but this is simply not true and grossly exaggerated.


I could never figure out how to use the Mac, both many years ago and about 5. Maybe it is different now, but the OS seemed quite difficult and many options were missing. I don't know where the registry data is stored, since they do it another way. I could literally build 50 PCs in the time I would need to learn the OS. I realize the Milleniums figure this stuff out easily, but I'd rather learn Linux if I had to start all over.

EBH



Jul 25, 2017 at 12:57 AM
Paul Mo
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p.7 #13 · p.7 #13 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


In reply to a couple of comments mentioning Linux, I'd gladly go there too, if something of the calibre of LR or C1 Pro were ported.

However, it's not all roses from what I have seen. JBOD or Raid, I believe, require the right flavour of Linux - you have to do your homework. Windows is pretty darn functional.



Jul 25, 2017 at 03:49 AM
EB-1
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p.7 #14 · p.7 #14 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Paul Mo wrote:
In reply to a couple of comments mentioning Linux, I'd gladly go there too, if something of the calibre of LR or C1 Pro were ported.

However, it's not all roses from what I have seen. JBOD or Raid, I believe, require the right flavour of Linux - you have to do your homework. Windows is pretty darn functional.


My thinking is to have 2-3 computers at all times. Only one would normally face the internet. The major NAS units use Linux and a GUI that does not require much user knowledge, though you can do more than the basics with some knowledge.

EBH



Jul 25, 2017 at 04:15 AM
15Bit
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p.7 #15 · p.7 #15 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Paul Mo wrote:
In reply to a couple of comments mentioning Linux, I'd gladly go there too, if something of the calibre of LR or C1 Pro were ported.

However, it's not all roses from what I have seen. JBOD or Raid, I believe, require the right flavour of Linux - you have to do your homework. Windows is pretty darn functional.


Linux is a mature OS now, and the mainstream distributions are proper modern mature desktops environments. Essentially, they just work in most cases, and they work well. If you are running it truly as a desktop it is very rare that you have to drop down to commandline to do anything. It can happen though. Some more advanced functionality (the firewalling for example) is also still easier to implement via commandline, and so when you search out "howtos" on the web you always get commandline instructions. The "problem", if you want to term it that way, is that there is so much capability available at the commandline that you read about really cool stuff that can be done and then go and try to do it, effectively extending your usage beyond that of a desktop OS. And then you get confused, and if you are not careful you break something by editing a config file you should have left well alone.

In my view Linux is now at the point as a Desktop OS that it's more widespread adoption is hindered by the software that everyone has become used to using, and the amassing of thousands of files that can't be read by any other software. We are essentially shackled by our past. Microsoft have got a lot better with using open standards, but the reality is that whilst free alternatives to Office are actually really really good, they don't have 100% compatibility with old MS files. And if you used a lot VB scripts in Excel, or wrote up custom templates for Word that pull out data from an Access DB or something, then you are stuck with Office. It is more a problem at the corporate end admittedly, but what you use at work will be reflected by what you use at home simply because few people want to learn two software packages that do the same thing. It's frustrating, and a waste of time and effort.

For us as photographers (a more specialised userbase) moving to Linux is hindered by software availability, and again the years of experience many folk have using an industry-default package on Windows or OSX. There *are* really good alternatives to LR and PS available for Linux, but they aren't *as* good and there is quite a bit of work required to learn the packages when you transition. A major weakness in the Linux ecosphere is that whilst there are several RAW editors available, they all seem to use the same RAW converter/demosaicing algorithm in the background.

Personally i am held back by a number of things, and these are pretty much the same things as held me back 10 years ago:

1. Work-related software. I am a scientist, and many of the proprietary analysis packages i have to use (which are generally those bundled with instrumentation) are Windows-only (not even OSX). I do a fair bit of work at home, and so i have copies installed on my home computer. I am also encumbered by 20 years worth of files produced in Sigmaplot, Excel, Word etc. which i still want to be able to read. In truth i could work around a lot of these problems by using my work-supplied laptop at home instead of my home PC: With a little effort i could set up a dock with KVM switch and have my screens switchable between PC and laptop.

2. Lightroom, Capture One and DXO. I just can't get around these. I have a lot of time and effort invested in my LR database and i can't bear thinking about trying to even convert to C1 (once they sort their database properly), let alone Linux and Darktable.

3. Games. I occasionally play games. Not so much nowadays, and i could live without them.

4. General software compatibility. If you run Win or OSX you know that almost any new software that comes along will be available for you to use. There is a value to that feeling of security. Again though, this isn't a deal-breaker.

5. Printers. I don't have one now, but it is on my to-do list. Canon, Epson etc have well established drivers, plugins etc for OSX and Windows, but i'm not sure about how they work in Linux.

Ultimately it is No.2 that is the big problem now, and with the inevitability of Win 10 (and its phone-home data collection policies) when i next upgrade my computer hardware, i am actively looking at ways around it. One option is to continue running Win 7 in a virtual machine, but i don't like that very much because getting hardware GPU acceleration to a VM is fiddly (command line work) and requires 2 graphics cards. I'm not sure how colour management works for a VM running in Linux.

If Adobe were to port LR to Linux and retain database compatibility with the current versions, i would be able swap to Linux tomorrow. That would be perfect for me. If Affinity photo were ported to Linux, i might make the effort to move over to Darktable and learn Affinity photo. As i am totally crap with PS, i am not losing any major investment there. Just having C1 or DXO ported to linux would not be enough for me i think, as i want a proper database with tagging (and C1 is not good enough yet).




Jul 26, 2017 at 08:35 AM
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