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If you were creating a great photo computer, what would i...
  
 
Ho1972
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


RustyBug wrote:
So, if PS and OS are running on C:, then scratch disc should be NOT be on C:.
Or ... if my images are on my M: Drive (mSATA) and R: Drive (removable bay), then my scratch disc SHOULD be on C:

What kind of things "read from scratch disc"?

What about Cache Levels setup?

The best solution for scratch is a dedicated volume. If that isn't possible, use the disk that sees the lightest load. I've read that your image storage disk is not a good choice for scratch, and ditto for the OS disk, so who knows? You could run some timed tests with the same operations on a very large file (big enough to invoke scratch) to see what works best. If you're efficiency indicator is frequently below 100%, the only real cure is more RAM.

What is read from scratch is whatever data Photoshop needs that has already been displaced from RAM, so the only way for PS to retrieve it is to swap some of what is currently in RAM for what has been written to scratch. It's not an efficient process even with an SSD, so avoid it if you can.

As far as cache settings go, unless you're always doing the same sort of work there is no one size fits all. Info about the settings here:
https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-photoshop-cc-performance.html




Oct 13, 2017 at 07:04 PM
15Bit
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


RustyBug wrote:
I'm even toying with the idea of using a Cintiq connected to a tower build (hence the interest about dual Xeon) for my PS editing, and calling it a day on my ideations about more power for laptop processing.


Laptop CPU's are all about low power for longer battery life, I doubt you'll get a CPU upgrade that will make much difference. I would suggest buying a tower of some sort and keeping the laptop for portable duties. A cintiq would be really nice, but they are somewhat out of my price range.



Oct 13, 2017 at 07:35 PM
RustyBug
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Probably old news for you guys that are heavy-hitters in the computer world, but I found this to be interesting.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CC-Multi-Core-Performance-625/



Oct 13, 2017 at 09:53 PM
rico
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


15Bit wrote:
... if those threads need to communicate with each other then the communication latency between sockets might well make it slower than having all the threads on the same physical cpu.

And rico - the doubled RAM bandwidth arising from dual sockets is dependent on the OS being properly NUMA aware, is it not?

If different cores have to fight repeatedly over write-access to the same cache line, then latency becomes an issue and socket co-location is hardly an improvement. Intel has done well in this regard with QPI (socket interconnect) which has low latency and high bandwidth. A NUMA-aware OS is not required to enjoy the performance. It's the high bandwidth that allows access to remote memory banks with little penalty. A QPI link is faster than a memory channel, and full duplex. Most all dual-socket mobos have two QPI between the Xeons, so bandwidth is insane.

That said, nothing beats a lot of RAM whatever the clocking. It completely overpowers PCI-e flash devices of any kind for low latency and bandwidth. Windows, macOS, and Linux allow the creation of ramdisks, while most software can be directed to that (mounted) ramdisk for scratch purposes. Being scratch, nothing is lost when the machine crashes—which is daily on a Mac Pro.



Oct 13, 2017 at 10:58 PM
15Bit
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Ok, the solder composition is.........*drum roll*................. Indium.

It's just a quick analysis with the x-ray analysis system on an electron microscope, and so probably doesn't pick up small trace impurities below around 1 wt%, but within that error the solder appears to be pure Indium. Which ties in well with the melting point i measured - Indium melts at 156.6C.



Oct 14, 2017 at 10:02 AM
rico
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


15Bit wrote:
Ok, the solder composition is.........*drum roll*................. Indium.

Wow, you're the Man! Quoting from webelements.com:

"It is useful for making low-melting alloys. An alloy of 24% indium and 76% gallium is liquid at room temperature."

It also says that indium is as abundant as silver, so Intel isn't saving money on materials by substituting black goo for TIM. The thermal conductivity of In is a fifth of Ag, so actually pretty good vs paste.



Oct 14, 2017 at 06:42 PM
15Bit
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I have my moments rico

The Indium-Gallium eutectic is quite well known in science - you place together sticks of In and Ga and they melt where they touch.

Don't mistake abundance with cost - the commodity price of silver is actually about twice that of Indium. According to USGS indium was around $340/Kg in 2016. That's unprocessed. My guess is that Intel apply a sheet of the stuff when they put the CPU package together and then quickly apply a heat source like my hot plate above to melt it. That means they will want it in sheet form with certain tolerances, which will cost quite a bit more than the commodity price.

You are also assuming they use silver in their thermal paste. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't, and even if they do the amount of silver in there will be a fraction of the amount of indium in the solder. They are definitely saving money on raw materials with the thermal paste, and they save themselves a manufacturing step - melting the solder.



Oct 15, 2017 at 08:29 AM
 

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Mike_Lee
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Hey guys, after an extremely frustrating couple of weeks dealing with performance issues with AutoPano Giga and Photoshop I'm about to pull the trigger on a new machine. I've had a look through this thread and other sources and come up with the following. Would appreciate any feedback before I go ahead. Thanks Mike

• CPU – Intel i7-8700K Coffee Lake
• Motherboard – Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Ultra Gaming
• CPU cooler - Noctua NH-D15
• Memory / RAM - Corsair - Vengeance LPX 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3000
• Primary storage - Samsung 500GB 960 EVO NVMe M.2 Internal SSD
• Secondary storage – 2 x 4GB Western Digital WD4003FZEX 7200rpm
• Graphics card - MSI GeForce GTX 1070 GAMING X 8G Graphics Card
• Case - Fractal Design - Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
• Power supply - ??
• Operating system – Windows 10 Pro
• Optical drive - ?? To load drivers / software if needed



Oct 26, 2017 at 10:40 PM
dgdg
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


That's one power rig! Almost $2.5k at least
Make sure your mid tower case and ram will accommodate that huge cpu cooler.

You'd save some money, do nearly as well, and avoid being a new mobo early adopter with a Kaby Lake and Z270 board.



Oct 27, 2017 at 12:34 AM
rico
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Mike_Lee wrote:
I've had a look through this thread and other sources and come up with the following. ...

My comments follow. First, go with a full tower for ease of access, parts clearance, more placement options for peripheral cooling, and better airflow in general. That config has a significant thermal component. Second, a single fin-stack Noctua is ample: I have the NH-U14S and it barely hits 65°C (ambient plus 40°C) with 10 cores running torture test Prime95 in Turbo mode. That with fan speed set to 40%! Your Coffee Lake is 20W cooler. NH-12S would be quite sufficient and easier to fit. Third, as mentioned, an earlier generation of i7 may give much better bang-per-buck, especially if used. Fourth, I don't think the fancy DIMMs are worth a bent nickel. For most workloads, CPU cache size is the performance determinant. One reason that Xeon rules, but that's another conversation. Economy performance (but top quality) memory can allow you to increase the total to 2x or 4x for various purposes. Kaby Lake allows DDR3 which is dirt-cheap on the used market.



Oct 27, 2017 at 02:58 AM
15Bit
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


rico wrote:
My comments follow. First, go with a full tower for ease of access, parts clearance, more placement options for peripheral cooling, and better airflow in general. That config has a significant thermal component. Second, a single fin-stack Noctua is ample: I have the NH-U14S and it barely hits 65°C (ambient plus 40°C) with 10 cores running torture test Prime95 in Turbo mode. That with fan speed set to 40%! Your Coffee Lake is 20W cooler. NH-12S would be quite sufficient and easier to fit. Third, as mentioned, an earlier generation of i7 may give much better bang-per-buck, especially if used.
...Show more

I would agree with this. For sure an i7-7700K system will cost you a lot less than the 8700K and give 95% the performance for photo editing. Of course, if you have other workloads that can use 6 cores...

Similarly, the premium gaming graphics card is nice for squeezing out the last few FPS for games, but for non-gaming applications a stock GTX 1070 will cost a fair bit less and perform just as fast.

On the topic of the RAM, at least over here the price difference between "basic" DDR4 2133 or 2400 and low latency DDR-3000/3200 is so low (about 15%) that you might as well buy the faster version. The really big premiums are only applicable to the bleeding edge speeds.



Oct 27, 2017 at 09:05 AM
Mike_Lee
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate it! I'm going to go for a full tower and take into consideration the other options. Cheers Mike


Nov 02, 2017 at 12:18 AM
RKnecht
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I just built a new system as my old overclocked i920 (4GHz) was starting to get hotter and hotter when using CC2018 and Dxo. I used an i7 7700K with 32 GB of Vengence DDR4 3000 RGB RAM on an Asus Maximus XI Hero. I'm using a Samsung EVO960 as a boot /main program drive, my old Samsung 120GB Pro SSD (reformatted) as a scratch disc and a Corsair H110i Extreme water cooler as my old H100 served me well for
years. I moved my video card and EVGA Supernova 750W power supply from my old machine as they were only a couple years old. For me, the case was the hardest decision. I finally settled on a Cooler Master Maker 5. Great case with excellent cable management. I also bought a new set of Cablemod white jacketed cables for my power supply. Once I get all my programs reinstalled, I am going to overclock the 7700K to 5GHz and call it a day. So far, with stock speeds, it's pretty speedy.



Nov 02, 2017 at 03:15 PM
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