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If you were creating a great photo computer, what would i...
  
 
OntheRez
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Maybe a used Cray? Would be a bit big, but lots of power

Robert



May 24, 2017 at 04:14 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


OntheRez wrote:
Maybe a used Cray? Would be a bit big, but lots of power

Robert


Probably ok for rico, who can likely recode and recompile the software he uses. Not so good for those of us relying on compiled binaries for windows or OSX



May 24, 2017 at 06:08 PM
sonofjesse2010
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


1070
I7
SSD (M2 if you can afford it)
and quality PS.


Basically what everybody else said



May 30, 2017 at 12:19 AM
bootster
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


It sounds to me like you could be in prime shape for a nice laptop to get started, and you will be impressed by the upgrade, enough to keep you satisfied for a long time until you get the desktop build ready. I am suggesting this because you are going to eventually want both a desktop and a laptop/2 in 1/ or ultrabook, and this would be the quickest way to get you up and running with a quite capable machine in a hurry without doing too much thinking about it, and then you can take your time to get your desktop build configured.

I would go for a Surface Book or Surface Pro/Surface Pro 4 and a nice monitor, or two, and you are set for a while. You would be impressed what these things will do once hooked up to a nice monitor, and you're set.



Jun 17, 2017 at 01:31 AM
clonardo
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


sonofjesse2010 wrote:
1070
I7
SSD (M2 if you can afford it)
and quality PS.

Basically what everybody else said


M.2 in and of itself doesn't mean much. There are both PCIe and SATA drives available in the M.2 form factor. A current top-end PCIe + NVMe SSD (e.g, Samsung 960 series) has about 4x more peak throughput than the SATA bus is capable of handling. Not all M.2 slots support PCIe and SATA, so it's important to verify that your motherboard has the right one. If not, adapters to run an M.2 PCIe SSD in a PCIe card slot are very inexpensive.

I/O performance is super-important- I recently moved some of my Lightroom libraries + RAW images from my NVMe SSD to a SATA one and immediately regretted doing that once I saved my first edited .PSD (at something like 800mb) back to the SATA SSD. It was _slow_ on the SATA drive.

Working with various 22mp+ files on my 10-core Xeon E5 v3 workstation with a GTX 960, Intel 750 SSD, and 32gb DDR4, I don't find myself pushing the GPU at all. I'd probably go with a 1050 or 1060 for the video card and put the money elsewhere.

When working off my NVMe SSD (the Intel 750), the only annoyingly-slow part of my workflow is building 100% JPEG previews of my RAW files on import into Lightroom. It pushes my very beefy CPU, but not to the max (meanwhile, if I do the same on my laptop, which has 2 cores/4 threads, it's pegged to 100%). As a developer, I get the impression that Adobe has some work to do in parallelizing that part of the workflow.

Also, this probably goes without saying, but a proper photo editing machine will have a color calibration tool and a pressure-sensitive tablet.



Jun 17, 2017 at 05:20 AM
Michael White
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I bought a used Mac Pro tower that was a 2012 model it has a 3.33 12 core processor, 64 go ram, it came with 4 2tb we red hdds a USB 3 pci card a a 1/2 gb gpu and a USB but card the internal was disabled. I wanted/needed the USB slot so i Reenabled the internal but card for the time being. I ordered a new fast wifi card that had bt4 on it but it required external power for the but so I had to order a cable to run to an external USB port after all but I've not got around to installing it yet. I added a Santa card with two internal wed blue 1tb ssds and it has two established ports that I have a 4 bay raid enclosure connected to one it has 4 wd 4tb red drives in a raid 5 config. I took my old pc nvidia gtx680 gpu and installed it in place of the 1/2 gb gpu. I'm running three 24' acre monitors that I had plus a Wacom 13' cintig. I'm using a wired keyboard and mouse from apple . It's what I built this year.


Jun 18, 2017 at 01:37 AM
Oscarsmadness
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


rico is a programmer i think. I'm not. and i'm poor. so I have LR which doesn't need Xeons and doesn't need me to be very smart.

I did splurge on a nVME SSD (clonardo is right that m.2 by itself says nothing about speed) and that's the best splurge I ever splurged. My next splurge is a well corrected, highly accurate 4K wide gamut monitor.



Jun 18, 2017 at 04:32 AM
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Oscarsmadness wrote:
rico is a programmer i think. I'm not. and i'm poor. so I have LR which doesn't need Xeons and doesn't need me to be very smart.

I did splurge on a nVME SSD (clonardo is right that m.2 by itself says nothing about speed) and that's the best splurge I ever splurged. My next splurge is a well corrected, highly accurate 4K wide gamut monitor.


There seems to be some sense that Xeons are inherently faster than desktop CPU's, possibly due to them being labelled "workstation" class CPU's. This is not the case, at least in the market segment where we are: A 4GHz quad core Xeon will not be any faster than a 4GHz i7, and as i7's are available at higher clockspeeds they are often a better choice. All the Xeons really give is the ability to address more RAM than the i7's can, and to run ECC. For LR, which makes heavy demands on CPU, responds better to clockspeed than core count and doesn't use much RAM, a highly clocked i7 is generally a better choice.

A well corrected 4K wide gamut screen should definitely help you retain your poverty



Jun 18, 2017 at 07:38 AM
rico
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


If clock frequency is all, then Xeon isn't the best route. Rational choice of CPU is a complicated affair, balancing factors like cost, heat, performance under expected loads, instruction set, core extension, memory features, etc. The Xeon brand includes CPUs that are as fast as i7, but only after eliminating cores and memory channels. Intel branding in that case verges on marketing. As a product segment, Xeon means CPU, chipset and motherboard designed collectively to yield reliability, remote administration and robust multitasking. The Xeon family of CPU supports more main memory, ECC protection, larger caches, more cores, multiple CPUs, higher memory bandwidth. With a moderate buildout, dual-socket configurations have the best bang per buck.


Jun 18, 2017 at 08:36 PM
danski0224
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


rico wrote:
With a moderate buildout, dual-socket configurations have the best bang per buck.


Not really, at least not for Adobe software.

I have found nothing that states that the typical photo applications from Adobe, at least as of this writing, use more than 4 cores efficiently.

I have used some photo applications, like AutoPano Giga, and it will come close to maxing out CPU performance across all 12 cores for a few seconds (6 physical and 6 virtual) on my machine while crunching a panorama that exceeds 1Tb, while Lightroom will run at 25% or less processing an image.

No affiliation, but there are many bits of seemingly unbiased information here and elsewhere on their site: https://www.pugetsystems.com/recommended/Recommended-Systems-for-Adobe-Photoshop-139

I would have to say that a dual socket Xeon system for photo processing would be the wrong direction to take, and only the very latest bleeding edge dual socket Xeon motherboards support the latest SSD technologies. Most Xeon processors do not allow overclocking, either.

Yes, the low prices for Xeon processors that once sold for $2000 and more is tempting...

I have a HP Z420 with an E5-1650 v2 Xeon, and it would take more than the same number of cores running at 3.5GHz to make a difference for me to upgrade, which puts me at the top of the i7 processors (currently at $1600+/-) and overclocking over 4 GHz. There is one E5 v2 Xeon chip that "should" work in my system, but it is a very small upgrade and that processor is still selling at $800.00.

The OP may get more from a Nvidia Quadro P4000 (supported by Adobe) than a Xeon system, at least for Photoshop.

If the OP starts "Task Manager" and watches CPU loading in the performance tab, and doesn't max out the CPU(s) doing photo editing, then only more GHz, RAM or a good graphics card will make a difference.




Jun 18, 2017 at 09:17 PM
 

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rico
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


danski0224 wrote:
I have found nothing that states that the typical photo applications from Adobe, at least as of this writing, use more than 4 cores efficiently.

Then a dedicated Adobe workload certainly negates any point to Xeon for performance reasons.



Jun 19, 2017 at 03:16 AM
Mr Mouse
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


danski0224 wrote:
I have found nothing that states that the typical photo applications from Adobe, at least as of this writing, use more than 4 cores efficiently.

I have used some photo applications, like AutoPano Giga, and it will come close to maxing out CPU performance across all 12 cores for a few seconds (6 physical and 6 virtual) on my machine while crunching a panorama that exceeds 1Tb, while Lightroom will run at 25% or less processing an image.




What is a typical photo Application? AutoPano Giga is not a typical Image application by any stretch of one imagination. It is a specialized stitching application. Where many images are stitch together. That process can be done with parallel threads that work on seams between overlapping images. The more image the are the more threads can be used and execute in parallel. That is a process that an image editor like Photoshop may occasionally do it not the typical thing that Photoshop is doing. Most of the Time Photoshop is waiting on the user to do something it is idle What the use does may be threadable or not. Some image processing is sequential in nature and can not be broken into parallel threads. Photoshop is also not doing processing that is graphic intensive like video editors and Games. Photoshop only does basic video editing. So you will not see Photoshop stressing Your display adapters GPU. Some Filters do processing the can be multi-threaded. For example, If I use surface blur on a large image it takes my machine something like 60 seconds to perform that process. During that time If I look at the Task Manager Performance tab, I will see that my dual 6 core xeons processor are running full tilt all 24 threads are at 100% utilization. Photoshop is not typically doing Surface blur.



Jun 19, 2017 at 04:02 AM
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


rico wrote:
Then a dedicated Adobe workload certainly negates any point to Xeon for performance reasons.


I don't think there is a good reason to go with a Xeon for most desktop/workstation applications nowadays. The standard quad Intel CPUs now address 64GB RAM, and the 6+ core count models address 128GB. The i7/i9 models will hit 18 cores by the end of the year.

So if you need more than 18 cores, more than 128GB RAM or you need ECC and an absolutely uber-stable platform then a Xeon is the weapon of choice. For the vast majority of us though, it's not the best choice in terms of either performance or cost. Indeed I would not be surprised to see a reduction in the number of single socket Xeon models due to this expansion of the core i7/i9 line.



Jun 19, 2017 at 07:18 AM
danski0224
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Mr Mouse wrote:
What is a typical photo Application? AutoPano Giga is not a typical Image application by any stretch of one imagination. It is a specialized stitching application. Where many images are stitch together. That process can be done with parallel threads that work on seams between overlapping images. The more image the are the more threads can be used and execute in parallel. That is a process that an image editor like Photoshop may occasionally do it not the typical thing that Photoshop is doing. Most of the Time Photoshop is waiting on the user to do something it is
...Show more

I did not claim that AutoPano is a typical photo application.

However, I can claim that AutoPano will max out all of the available cores on my machine (for a short time), and Adobe CS5 will not, while attempting the same photo merge.

Most (almost all) of the time I am using Lightroom, and it will hardly ever break 20% CPU utilization.

The only way I can speed that up is to overclock beyond 4GHz. More physical cores or dual CPU's will not help. I am maxed out on memory too.

My current system will not support a single dual slot GPU (power limitations), so I can't try one to see what happens, or if it would be any better than what I have. I am not sure if adding a second single slot GPU will have an effect either. I have a power supply capable of running it, but it is not clear if (1) the applications like Photoshop/Lightroom will utilize it or (2) if the motherboard fully supports it.

So while I may have a plain jane workstation by current standards, it will take something close to a bleeding edge build to better it for Adobe product use- something that will run at over 4GHz and have 128gb RAM.






Jun 19, 2017 at 09:46 AM
Paul Mo
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


While we wring our hands are we not waiting for 'better written/higher efficiency' software?


Jun 19, 2017 at 10:50 AM
Mr Mouse
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


danski0224 wrote:
So while I may have a plain jane workstation by current standards, it will take something close to a bleeding edge build to better it for Adobe product use- something that will run at over 4GHz and have 128gb RAM.



I'll never have a bleeding Edge Computer they simply cost too much for what you get and in a years time their technology will drop in price. I also no longer build PC. I can buy a refurbished workstation with service, installed legal software and it will be delivered to me in working order for less that I can build one if I consider the research time I need to do for components the build time the install time and I have to do all the maintenance. For 2K I can get a workstation delivered that will handle what I do well.

What I do does nor require Bleeding Edge


I Photoshop or ACR was specifically written to stitch I would be willing to bet they would do it better then they do stitching now.

I also just tested ACR 9.10.1 Had it stitch 13 5MP jpeg file Took little time all 24 threads showed some utilization not much and I'm sure the AutoPandGiga would do a better job


Edited on Jun 19, 2017 at 04:40 PM · View previous versions



Jun 19, 2017 at 03:57 PM
15Bit
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


Paul Mo wrote:
While we wring our hands are we not waiting for 'better written/higher efficiency' software?


Better to wring your hands than hold your breath on that i think



Jun 19, 2017 at 04:00 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


I am ordering the following later today:

i7 7820K (8c/16t) with a 30 second OC to 4.7-4.8 GHz on all cores (may delid in the future for 5Ghz+).
Asus TUF Mk1 X299 Mobo (might change last minute - still deciding)
32GB Quad channel 3200 Mhz 15T GSKILL Trident Z RAM (might go 64GB, still deciding)
Nvidia Titan-X 12GB GPU
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M2 PCI-E SSD
EVGA SuperNOVA G3 850W PSU
Noctua NH-D15
Fractal R5 Case w/3X 140mm Corsair mag-lev case fans
4X Storage HDD (carry over)
1X Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA SSD (carry over)

Should be just about the fastest possible PC for photo editing at the moment without getting completely ridiculous to edge out the last few percent, at least for my workflow.



Jun 19, 2017 at 04:28 PM
clonardo
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


CanadaMark wrote:
I am ordering the following later today:

i7 7820K (8c/16t) with a 30 second OC to 4.7-4.8 GHz on all cores (may delid in the future for 5Ghz+).
Asus TUF Mk1 X299 Mobo (might change last minute - still deciding)
32GB Quad channel 3200 Mhz 15T GSKILL Trident Z RAM (might go 64GB, still deciding)
Nvidia Titan-X 12GB GPU
Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M2 PCI-E SSD
EVGA SuperNOVA G3 850W PSU
Noctua NH-D15
Fractal R5 Case w/3X 140mm Corsair mag-lev case fans
4X Storage HDD (carry over)
1X Samsung 850 PRO 256GB SATA SSD (carry over)

Should be just about the fastest possible PC for photo editing at the moment without
...Show more
Great choices. Couple of things that make me wonder, though- how come no liquid cooling, like a Corsair H110i or similar? It's about the same price as the Noctua, will cool more effectively under load, and will be quieter (since you can run the dual fans more slowly).

Also, the Titan-X is almost certainly overkill (unless you're also into gaming or render a lot of video).

With 32gb on my 10-core Xeon E5, I never find myself anywhere close to RAM-limited when working on 22mp RAW files in Lightroom and Photoshop- even with a bunch of Chrome tabs and a few instances of Visual Studio in the background.



Jun 19, 2017 at 07:35 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · If you were creating a great photo computer, what would it be?


clonardo wrote:
Great choices. Couple of things that make me wonder, though- how come no liquid cooling, like a Corsair H110i or similar? It's about the same price as the Noctua, will cool more effectively under load, and will be quieter (since you can run the dual fans more slowly).

Also, the Titan-X is almost certainly overkill (unless you're also into gaming or render a lot of video).

With 32gb on my 10-core Xeon E5, I never find myself anywhere close to RAM-limited when working on 22mp RAW files in Lightroom and Photoshop- even with a bunch of Chrome tabs and a few instances
...Show more

Thanks! I built my last PC in 2012 (3770K) so this should be a great upgrade.

I prefer air coolers, they are much quieter than water, and there is no chance of coolant getting dumped on my PC (though most of it is electronics-safe). Every test I have seen as well has the NH-D15 within a few degrees C of large AIO water coolers, and quite a bit quieter under load (I like building silent or near silent PC's). A custom loop would do better, but I am not going down that road. If the NH-D15 ends up being inadequate for a modest OC, I will simply replace with a high end 240-280mm AIO.

In fact, specifically comparing it to the Corsair H110i, the NH-D15 matches or beats it with regards to cooling and stays about 10dB quieter under load.

http://www.relaxedtech.com/reviews/noctua/nh-d15-versus-closed-loop-liquid-coolers/2

http://www.overclock.net/t/1519715/mini-review-noctua-nh-d15-vs-corsair-h110

I've got another NH-D15 cooling my 3770K right now and it is very quiet and performs incredibly well. @ 4.4-4.5 Ghz I am only at 60C under sustained full load.

I already own the Titan-X, so it will be a carry-over. I do play games (1440p), and the Photoshop plug-ins I use take advantage of the GPU, using 4-5GB of VRAM as well during my HDR workflow.

I regularly max out my 16GB in Photoshop, and regularly go over 10GB just browsing in Chrome (doing research it's not unusual to have 20-30 tabs on the go), so 32GB will be the absolute minimum for my usage which is very mixed alongside heavy photo editing. RAM is also cheap right now, so it's a no-brainer IMHO.



Jun 19, 2017 at 07:54 PM
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