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Archive 2017 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)

  
 
DavidBM
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Yep; no way out of that without a bigger front group i guess. It diesn't bother me - looks kind of natural so long as its not Helios extreme. So i wouldn't trade more size to deal with it. But uf someone hates it, the i agree this is not the lens for them. The f2 Apo Sonnar has quite a swirl too, which surprisingly oeopke dont comment on much. In part its mechanical vignetting leading to cats eyes in the corner. But I wonder if high overall contrast makes it more visible?

Fred Miranda wrote:
It's a very impressive MTF, in part due to aberration control. What bothers me is the cat-eye specular highlights shape towards the corners 'ala' Batis 85/1.8.




Apr 06, 2017 at 01:54 AM
Charlie N
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)



tzhang4284 wrote:
i'm a little confused - you listed 8 lenses you own that and except for the 28mm f2, are all at least $800 or more new retail price today and on a camera that has a 36mp sensor. Of the 8 lenses you listed, 3 out of the 5 of the lenses you claim to bring for travel overlap in focal length coverage with the 16-35mm zoom you also bring. Aren't you basically agreeing with me and subscribing to my point of view? It's not like you carry only a 28-70 or 24-70 and saying that's good enough. Seems like
...Show more
Your view is based on the assumption that highest quality imagery is needed all the time.

It is not, casual family pics printed at 4x6 certainly don't need the full 42...

I rather shoot a sufficiently sharp wide aperture portrait lens than a blisteringly sharp slow lens. Whole image matters more than pixel peeping.



Apr 06, 2017 at 02:06 AM
tzhang4284
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


I use a rx100 and my iphone for casual photos.

I think 135mm f2.8 gives you more than enough depth of field. Bokeh for the sake of bokeh is just as bad as pixel peeping imo.

Edit: whole image def matters but 42mp with the right lens lets you surface extra details that can be worth zooming in on.



Apr 06, 2017 at 02:21 AM
Matt Grum
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


People complaining about the slow f/2.8 aperture - you've all got your deposit down for the Mitakon 135mm f/1.4, right?


Apr 06, 2017 at 03:34 AM
Slalom
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Not very interested in this lens as its cost represents the sum of what I paid for my two most expensive lens..

My take light weight is good..

When people look at these E mount Lens in say 5 years time, Will the sharp from wide open, be regarded as a great 2.8 or will people rave about a wider aperture lens that need stopping down.

I agree with anyone who has posted wait and see, And I also feel the stock levels, order fulfillment and second hand market will speak volumes.

I have no AF 135' but my MF ones weigh 284 to 535g, not too heavy for the Techart Pro.



Apr 06, 2017 at 05:20 AM
Matt Grum
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


virtualrain wrote:
Price aside, it's a strange product mix of trade-offs. I may be wrong but most people shooting a 135 are likely shooting people and value subject isolation and back ground obliteration over corner sharpness and CA correction. To put optical performance across the frame ahead of subject isolation (max aperture) is a bizarre decision in my opinion.


You can obliterate the background very effectively at f/2.8 with a 135mm lens.

Lateral CA is very important to portrait photographers (unless you want your "Bokeh balls" to have a thick green outline...) Sharpness to the corners is not so important for portraits, but will be for other types of photography, and I imagine it all goes hand in hand with being well corrected for colour etc.


ISO1600 wrote:
The Canon 135L is and always has been an absolutely phenomenal lens, and can be had for under $700 these days.


The Canon 135L is a good lens, and fantastic value at the current prices. But I wouldn't say it's phenominal - more recent lenses like the 135/2 APO or Samyang 135 show how much more contrast and sharpness is possible across the frame at f/2.0, and it's not hard to find examples of axial colour from the Canon.


Luvwine wrote:
I found some bokeh examples I did not love here:


It's possible to find bad bokeh samples from any lens. The image content has a large influence on the look of the Bokeh - here's an image from the 135L with bad bokeh due to the presence of thin tree branches:

http://mattgrum.com/barbara_e_federico/images/2011-09-10-13h16m29.jpg

Edited on Apr 06, 2017 at 07:16 AM · View previous versions



Apr 06, 2017 at 05:57 AM
chez
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p.5 #7 · p.5 #7 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


tzhang4284 wrote:
i'm a little confused - you listed 8 lenses you own that and except for the 28mm f2, are all at least $800 or more new retail price today and on a camera that has a 36mp sensor. Of the 8 lenses you listed, 3 out of the 5 of the lenses you claim to bring for travel overlap in focal length coverage with the 16-35mm zoom you also bring. Aren't you basically agreeing with me and subscribing to my point of view? It's not like you carry only a 28-70 or 24-70 and saying that's good enough. Seems like
...Show more

What don't you understand? I pick the appropriate lens for the shooting I plan on doing. During travel I choose the lens I want on my camera based on the images I want to get. Wide angle if I want intimate environmental shots, 85mm if I want more isolated portraits and the 16-35 zoom when I'm out trekking looking for landscape opportunities and am not sure what focal length I need.

I have no problems spending money on quality lenses where I see appropriate, for focal lengths that I use a lot. The 135 focal length is not used for my street or portraiture or even landscape photography so I don't put a lot of my focus on that focal length. I would have loved to replace my 135L with this new Batis for it's AF abilities and OS and would have been very interested if the price was $1200 - $1500, but at $2,000 I have zero interest in it. Just don't use the 135 focal length enough to justify such a price.

Personally if I was just shooting to display on the net, I would not even consider these higher tiered lenses as the prosumer / consumer level lenses deliver just fine when displayed on the net.



Apr 06, 2017 at 07:07 AM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #8 · p.5 #8 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Anyone see a release date


Apr 06, 2017 at 07:12 AM
Charlie N
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p.5 #9 · p.5 #9 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


tzhang4284 wrote:
I use a rx100 and my iphone for casual photos.

I think 135mm f2.8 gives you more than enough depth of field. Bokeh for the sake of bokeh is just as bad as pixel peeping imo.

Edit: whole image def matters but 42mp with the right lens lets you surface extra details that can be worth zooming in on.



I keep my life simple, my point and shoot is my A7rii, I find it small enough to take anywhere (FE35).

at the same time, landscapes are my thing...

Matt Grum wrote:
People complaining about the slow f/2.8 aperture - you've all got your deposit down for the Mitakon 135mm f/1.4, right?


right, so people complaining about the slow FE 35 f2.8 need to stop asking for a 35 f2...

zeiss 135 f2.8 might possibly be the most expensive 135 f2.8 in history. 135 f2.8's have been historically budget lenses, typically small. I'm sure zeiss will come out with the coveted 200mm f4, super premium $2500, 800g lens, so hot.



Apr 06, 2017 at 07:16 AM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #10 · p.5 #10 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Have to say if this was a 200 2.8 APO I would be first in line at any cost. I'm just noodling this for awhile


Apr 06, 2017 at 07:19 AM
DavidBM
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p.5 #11 · p.5 #11 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


GMPhotography wrote:
Anyone see a release date


They said "shipping in May" on some press release or other..



Apr 06, 2017 at 07:27 AM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #12 · p.5 #12 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Thanks David


Apr 06, 2017 at 07:33 AM
Luvwine
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p.5 #13 · p.5 #13 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)




It's possible to find bad bokeh samples from any lens. The image content has a large influence on the look of the Bokeh - here's an image from the 135L with bad bokeh due to the presence of thin tree branches:

http://mattgrum.com/barbara_e_federico/images/2011-09-10-13h16m29.jpg


Well, I guess that is true, but the examples I referenced showed more than that. They showed a tendency toward swirly bokeh in the flower images and some cats eyes. This is not horrible, by any means, as all lenses are compromises. This lens has incredible sharpness and aberration control with moderate size and weight. A larger lens could have lost the cats eyes and could have been faster (what I expect we will see in a future GM). A landscape oriented lens could have been smaller tho one would lose autofocus or speed. This is a great "do everything" lens but there will inevitably be weaknesses in particular applications. The bokeh is a weakness to me, albeit a small one. I have been testing the 100 GM stf so my bokeh frame of reference is doubtless skewed....


Edited on Apr 06, 2017 at 08:07 AM · View previous versions



Apr 06, 2017 at 08:05 AM
bjornthun
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p.5 #14 · p.5 #14 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


GMPhotography wrote:
Have to say if this was a 200 2.8 APO I would be first in line at any cost. I'm just noodling this for awhile


Wasn't there a patent for a 200/2.8 and a 300/2.8 as well? With the Batis 135 on the table we might actually hope for a 200/2.8 Apo too.



Apr 06, 2017 at 08:06 AM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #15 · p.5 #15 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Any lens can have bad bokeh given the subject, distance, background . The real problem is people pick the absolute worst backgrounds and expect miracles. I'm sorry but this is on the shooter and lack of scouting out a better background most of the time. Street stuff maybe more you get what you can. But most shots I see this complaint is a model placed in a scene. That's controllable

Well, I guess that is true, but the examples I referenced showed more than that. The showed a tendency toward swirly bokeh in the flower images and some cats eyes. This
...Show more



Apr 06, 2017 at 08:09 AM
Justin Stone
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p.5 #16 · p.5 #16 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Sure. Totally different beast. Where do we get one?!?

GMPhotography wrote:
Have to say if this was a 200 2.8 APO I would be first in line at any cost. I'm just noodling this for awhile




Apr 06, 2017 at 08:47 AM
Nadir-Moscow
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p.5 #17 · p.5 #17 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Before long post - introduction of myself :
I am over 30 years Canon shooter. My main subjects are people and portraiture. All my wide angle lenses are Zeiss ZE, I own Otus 55, 85 and 135APO and some other exotics.. Did some commercial jobs with Sony Alpha 9&Zeiss lens kit.
I would call myself Canon-equipped, Zeiss inspired, Sony skeptical and Sigma optimistic pro photographer.


On April 5 I was invited to Batis 135 launch party here in Moscow, Russia.
http://www.nadir.ru/img/s3/v25/p2269026160-5.jpg

Welcome to new “Huge lenses world” - Batis 135/2.8 APO is twice as fat as Pentax Takumar 135/2.5 from 1979.
Sony paradigm “compactness uber alles” crashed against laws of physics. Once again.


The only practical question I had - do Sony EyeAF is on par to produce consistent results with new Batis. I had only 5 minutes available with preproduction Batis and asked my mate #ZeissAmbassador Vladimir Morozov to shoot a series of portraits with EyeAF. He nailed 14 of 16 shots.
http://www.nadir.ru/img/s10/v100/p2268992422.jpg

Carl Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO Sonnar FE lens @ Sony A7RmII, f/2.8, 1/200 sec. Actual pixels, RAW image at the link.


Then I decided to make 4-way shootout with other 135 lenses at hand. Tried to copy Sony image with other lenses. Camera mounted on tripod, live-view focused on models right eye, Dual Pixel AF when available.
http://www.nadir.ru/img/s12/v170/p2268992361.jpg

Canon EF 135 f/2L @ Canon 5D mark IV, f/2.8, 1/250 sec. Dual Pixel AF, actual pixels, RAW image at the link.

http://www.nadir.ru/img/s11/v37/p2268992359.jpg

Carl Zeiss 135mm f/2.8 APO Sonnar ZE @ Canon 5DmIV, f/2.8, 1/350 sec, manual focus, RAW image at the link.

The Joker lens produced in 1968, 50 years ago
http://www.nadir.ru/img/s10/v100/p2268992393.jpg

Leica Wetzlar Elmarit-R II 135 f/2.8 # 2307115 @ Canon 5DmIV, f/2.8, 1/500 sec, manual focus, RAW image at the link. Worst chromatics, see the earings.

Sigma 135 f/1.8 Art is available on April 6 (here in Moscow for 1313USD.), so I had to use Sigma 85 f/1.4 Art instead:
http://www.nadir.ru/img/s6/v142/p2268998714.jpg

Sigma 85mm F1.4 DG Art lens @ Canon 5DmIV, f/2.8, 1/500 sec. Dual Pixel AF, RAW image at the link.
Please feel free to download and analyze the full gallery at nadir.ru

Edited on Apr 06, 2017 at 10:36 AM · View previous versions



Apr 06, 2017 at 08:49 AM
tzhang4284
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p.5 #18 · p.5 #18 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


chez wrote:
What don't you understand? I pick the appropriate lens for the shooting I plan on doing. During travel I choose the lens I want on my camera based on the images I want to get. Wide angle if I want intimate environmental shots, 85mm if I want more isolated portraits and the 16-35 zoom when I'm out trekking looking for landscape opportunities and am not sure what focal length I need.

I have no problems spending money on quality lenses where I see appropriate, for focal lengths that I use a lot. The 135 focal length is not used for my
...Show more

I get the 135mm might be out of your price range but my point was that its actually reasonable when you consider the alternatives and what youre getting for it. If you dont use 135mm often and i dont really either, makes sense to skip this.

I think all this gear is overkill too which is why i only have the 4 loxia lenses now and the rx100 v. I buy & sell or rent as needed beyond that. However my first dslr was a canon rebel t3i that i bought for a "once in a lifetime" safari in africa for. The images dont really hold up well and i wish i had more latitude to adjust them today - there is value in having high quality files. However, its not like anyone here is making once in a lifetime pullitzer prize winning images and gear is the differentiator so lets not get too emotional over how zeiss prices these things and take ourselves too seriously...



Apr 06, 2017 at 08:56 AM
RCicala
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p.5 #19 · p.5 #19 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Fred Miranda wrote:
The Zeiss 135/2 APO ZF/ZE is currently priced at $1,499 and is considered a masterpiece.

Based on the Batis 135/2.8 price, Zeiss seems to be confident it will perform similarly in a much smaller native package with AF and image stabilization.
I'm sure Roger at Lensrentals will post his optical bench test results soon.


I have the MTF of one pre-production sample up. It's quite good, but that's just one copy.



Apr 06, 2017 at 10:05 AM
GMPhotography
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p.5 #20 · p.5 #20 · Reduced: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,899)


Your setting a very low bar here on folks abilities and talents here. What makes you think we are not after Pulitzer Prize winning images. Im a Pro I strive for the best I can get as I get paid to perform . I would be very careful on your generalizing. A lot of Pros here trying to put food on our tables, we can't do that with inferior images. I have some of the best lenses money can buy but I also have lenses considered cheap that produce beyond there perceived image quality. I agree buying great useful lenses is preferred but sometimes we have some lenses that perform amazingly well for little money. Rokinon 135 is one of them and a host of Zeiss ZM lenses which I'm using this week shooting a big job. Maybe the bar for your abilities is low ( I don't know if that's true) but let's not put everyone in that bull pen.
At least that's the impression I am reading.
tzhang4284 wrote:
I get the 135mm might be out of your price range but my point was that its actually reasonable when you consider the alternatives and what youre getting for it. If you dont use 135mm often and i dont really either, makes sense to skip this.

I think all this gear is overkill too which is why i only have the 4 loxia lenses now and the rx100 v. I buy & sell or rent as needed beyond that. However my first dslr was a canon rebel t3i that i bought for a "once in a lifetime" safari in africa for.
...Show more



Apr 06, 2017 at 11:29 AM
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