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Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)
  
 
ecarlino
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Luvwine wrote:
I found some bokeh examples I did not love here:

http://www.verybiglobo.com/zeiss-batis-apo-sonnar-135mm-f2-8-lens-review/7/



ah yes, that second set of 6, middle of bottom row is doing that swirl-thing (it's the precise scene that induces swirl in many lenses). but this isn't bad (it would certainly be worse with the batis 85)

overall (bokeh/oof/rendering) is quite nice - certainly looks better than the Canon 135L in the first set - but that set also shows how good the Samyang is.


Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 08:09 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 07:29 PM
uscmatt99
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Some swirl in the flower field images, but not too bad. Overall I really like the rendering in the posted images. Somewhat defined edges of out of focus elements, but not overly nervous with arcs and such. You can't have a super corrected lens wide open without that look though, unless you have that fancy STF lens, but then you lose light.


Apr 05, 2017 at 07:44 PM
mjm6
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


uscmatt99 wrote:
Some swirl in the flower field images, but not too bad. Overall I really like the rendering in the posted images. Somewhat defined edges of out of focus elements, but not overly nervous with arcs and such. You can't have a super corrected lens wide open without that look though, unless you have that fancy STF lens, but then you lose light.


I agree. This is the inherent problem with the fixation on sharpness that many now have; nervous bokeh.

The swirl is pretty minor, but in my opinion, much more important is the lack of onion rings and other nervousness in the OOF areas.

Regardless, this lens is not one I will be getting.

On the bright side, compared to the Leica APO lenses, the price seems quite low...



Apr 05, 2017 at 07:55 PM
LBJ2
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


GMPhotography wrote:
We need a betting pool , who is going to wait the longest and who is going to fold first.


Too late for me Guy! I already folded and hit that preorder button the second I rolled out of the bed this a.m. . Now the real bet with myself is if I stick with the preorder. Don't think I've ever paid such a price for a F2.8 lens before. I sure hope these online image samples get better


Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 08:21 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 08:15 PM
tzhang4284
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


formula4speed wrote:
Aren't most (all?) current fast 135s superb when stopped down to 2.8?

My $400 Samyang 135 f/2 is impressive optically even when wide open. I'm sure someone will be buying this, but if I drank coffee I would have spit it all over my monitor when I saw the price tag.

I guess this is what happens when pixel peeping is the name of the game and we desperately need flawless corner sharpness wide open with no aberrations anywhere.


Sorry but I don't think Zeiss as a brand is a good fit for anyone that's interested in photography and focused on value with respect to image quality per dollar spent. The Samyang 135mm f2 is certainly an excellent design and value for the money but Samyang lenses have had QC issues and the build quality just isn't there. It's also a massively unwieldy design when mounted on the Sony camera. I don't think you can compare a native AF APO 135mm f2.8 lens to a large adapted manual focus lens. Unless you're shooting only still life (e.g. test charts), the other bits added on will make the Zeiss lens a whole lot more useful.

My take is that if you're spending that much money on a Sony A7R II, then it's worth using only the best lenses for it. Otherwise, a RX100, A6000, A7 or a traditional DSLR one generation back (Nikon D600/Canon6d/5d mK3) can deliver you plenty of performance for the money. If you look at every single Zeiss or Sony Zeiss full frame E-Mount lens, almost every one of them have had complaints about their price tag when they were first introduced. There are certainly cheaper options available but almost always not as good in some way.



Apr 05, 2017 at 08:17 PM
LBJ2
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


ecarlino wrote:
While I subscribe, there have been times that I've dissed dlloyd for some of his obnoxious commentary/attitude - but his review is up for the Batis 135.

His images show some amazing results for this lens. The images, and his commentary, confirm that the "APO" label is more than deserved (he claims there's only one other lens that may be better color-corrected). He also states the Batis 135 is pretty much perfect wide-open and stopping down is only for DoF.


Thank you for the reference. I needed something to make me feel better after hitting the preorder button this morn. MTF WOW for sure and Lloyds got some eye popping image samples in there too.



Apr 05, 2017 at 08:19 PM
ecarlino
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Fred Miranda wrote:
For those thinking AF is a must have for this focal length, the Sigma 135/1.8 + MC-11, Sony 135/1.8 + LA-EA4 or Canon 135/2 + Metabones are great AF alternatives right now. The only one capable of EyeAF is the Sigma 135/1.8 and at this aperture, size should not be a complaint.


so i wanted to see how this stacks up physically and $$

Batis 135 / 2.8
$2000
14/11 elements groups
67mm filter
3.2 x 4.72 (diameter, length - inches)
614 g


Sigma 135 / 1.8
$1650 incl adapter
13/10 elements groups
9 rounded aperture blades
82mm filter
3.6 x 4.52 (diameter, length - inches) w/o adapter
1130 g w/o adapter


Sony 135 / 1.8
$1800 + $350 LAE4
11/8 elements groups
9 aperture blades
77mm filter
3.48 x 5.53 (diameter, length - inches) excl adapter
985 g + 160g adapter


Canon 135 / 2L
$1000 + $400 metabones adapter
10/8 elements groups
8 aperture blades
72mm filter
3.2 x 4.4 (diameter, length - inches) excl adapter
750 g + 150g adapter


Samyang 135 / 2
$450
native emount
MF
11/7 elements groups
9 rounded aperture blades
77mm filter
3.2 x 5.83 (diameter, length - inches)
840 g


(all prices new from BH)


Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 10:02 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 08:21 PM
chez
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


tzhang4284 wrote:
My take is that if you're spending that much money on a Sony A7R II, then it's worth using only the best lenses for it. Otherwise, a RX100, A6000, A7 or a traditional DSLR one generation back (Nikon D600/Canon6d/5d mK3) can deliver you plenty of performance for the money. If you look at every single Zeiss or Sony Zeiss full frame E-Mount lens, almost every one of them have had complaints about their price tag when they were first introduced. There are certainly cheaper options available but almost always not as good in some way.


Sorry I don't buy this BS about needing to buy the best lenses because you are using the A7R2. Everyone of us has a different need for a given lens and for someone a lens is their bread and butter and it makes sense to get the best for their needs, but for others, that focal length might not be used much and purchasing the "BEST...whatever that is" lens is just not good sense.

For example, most of my photography revolves around travel and landscapes where this 135 is not that useful to me. What I do use the 135 focal length for is concert photography where the combination of reach and speed are important for me. But I don't do very much concert photography anymore and cannot justify spending $2,000 on a lens I might use 5 times a year.

Everyone has a limit of disposable income they can spend and its just not wise to spend it foolishly buying the "BEST" lenses even if you use those lenses very rarely. Sometimes the cheaper lens just works fine for the 5 times a year you take it out.



Apr 05, 2017 at 08:43 PM
LBJ2
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


chez wrote:
Sorry I don't buy this BS about needing to buy the best lenses because you are using the A7R2. Everyone of us has a different need for a given lens and for someone a lens is their bread and butter and it makes sense to get the best for their needs, but for others, that focal length might not be used much and purchasing the "BEST...whatever that is" lens is just not good sense.

For example, most of my photography revolves around travel and landscapes where this 135 is not that useful to me. What I do use the 135 focal
...Show more

Now that we are all over the initial shock of the mediocre IG campaign, the F2.8 and finally the price, plenty will have had time to reflect and my guess is many will indeed opt out for many of the same practical reasons you listed. The real test will be how much inventory will remain in stock after the initial orders are filled.

If I remember correctly there was much the same hoopla over the earlier Batis lens prices and after initial stock flew off the shelves, those lenses were out stock for months. Will be interesting to see if the same effect occurs for this $2K F2.8 lens or not.

If you are into MTFs or not, this one pretty much sings:



Apr 05, 2017 at 09:01 PM
DavidBM
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


GMPhotography wrote:
We need a betting pool , who is going to wait the longest and who is going to fold first.


Guy I folded within seconds of the preorder going up.

I'm going to sell my F2 version.

To be fair to me it's not pure GAS. This is a lens I've wanted for like a decade, but thought I would never see.

A moderately fast, fairly compact, relatively light otherwise no compromise medium tele.

I've been moaning to anyone who would listen that we live in an era of huge fast zooms, huge super fast primes, and compromised in IQ budget smaller lenses. And I thought we'd never see another 2.8/135, especially with AF, because of the market. People would say it's too slow for them, or that it overlaps with their fast zoom, and that the no compromise except speed prime is too expensive for what it is.

Well I was right about what they would say! And for some of them they are right about their own needs.





Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 10:59 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:10 PM
 

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tzhang4284
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


chez wrote:
Sorry I don't buy this BS about needing to buy the best lenses because you are using the A7R2. Everyone of us has a different need for a given lens and for someone a lens is their bread and butter and it makes sense to get the best for their needs, but for others, that focal length might not be used much and purchasing the "BEST...whatever that is" lens is just not good sense.

For example, most of my photography revolves around travel and landscapes where this 135 is not that useful to me. What I do use the 135 focal
...Show more

It's not BS at all - what's the point of having 42mp of resolution when your lenses can't resolve it? Plenty of lower resolution and smaller sensor camera and lenses that are more than adequate if you're not aiming for best in class IQ. Personally, I would rather spend my hard earned dollars on a few excellent lenses than a lot of good but not great ones - however that's just me though. You're welcome to make your own camera gear buying decisions.

The bigger point again i was making is that if you're complaining about the price of this native AF Zeiss lens vs. the MF Samyang 135mm f2, then it's probably not for you. This lens is very much targeted for those who want or need the best 135mm in a compact package with AF capability. The only alternative is really the Sigma 135mm f1.8, which is a heavier lens without weather sealing and with adapter, priced pretty closely to this ($1650 vs $2k). All other lenses require serious compromises in features and/or performance and if you're ok with that, then great but then the batis is not for you. The price point is fair when you look at the alternatives but not a value by any means.

I'm opting out of this lens too since I recently acquired the Loxia 85 and my wallet is still recoiling from that. I also think 85mm and 135mm are close enough that I don't need lenses at both focal lengths however, as I mentioned in another thread, I can see the Batis 25, Sony 50mm f1.4 and Batis 135mm f2.8 be an excellent trio of no compromise moderately fast AF primes that is good for all weather conditions.



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:11 PM
bjornthun
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


I think it's great that Zeiss has made a 135/2.8, that is very high quality without being über heavy and über big. The last regular (as in non-STF) AF 135/2.8 was the Minolta AF 135/2.8. There is no way that the old manual focus 135/2.8 can match this new Batis 135/2.8, as they are usually five- or six-element design that would have to compete agsinst a new lens with forteen elements of which eight are ED glass. That's more ED glass than in most modern 70-200/2.8 zooms, no wonder the price is high for the Batis 135/2.8. AF and OIS are nice too. The OIS will work together with IBIS to give five axis stabilization, according to Zeiss.

The new Batis 135/2.8 is a lens I'll be saving up for, since it's high quality and has a reasonable weight. I have sold my ZA135/1.8, since it was simply too heavy with adapter, and AF was so-so.

Now there are two APO lenses for Sony FE, the Batis 135/2.8 and the Voigtländer Macro Apo Lanthar 65/2.




Apr 05, 2017 at 10:33 PM
Bespoked
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Can it do this?

https://youtu.be/fzuVlThVJxE



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:35 PM
GMPhotography
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


. I do have a need for it even though the Rokinon 135 is just sweet as can be , I can use AF on gigs like events, podium and even runway type work. Given that it's smaller than the Rokinon it would have been nice here in Texas shooting this gig. Even though the Rokinon is killing it. I could also use it for portraits as I normally throw my 85 into APSC mode anyway.the price hurts a bunch but I'll pull it off at some point. Since I sold the GM 85 because of the AF speed I also know I downgraded some bokeh. My sort of plan was get the 50 1.4 again and use the Sony 85 and get a real good 135. The Sigma does pop up because I could use the speed but we also have to think next gen cam will the higher ISO be even better. If so than you pick up on any noise issues. Really lots to weigh in here. My biggest problem in this long career is I do everything as far as what I get hired for. I'm really all over the map. So in a sense I'm a generalist which is non specific and requires a diverse set of tools. If I shot food than maybe only two lenses I would ever need. Unfortunately sort of that is the case with me I just need everything. . So I'm stuck buying a big range of glass. I'm in the field right now with the CV12, Firin 20, ZM 25,35,85 and the Rokinon 135. Most used lens without even looking the ZM 85 than the 135 and right now I would kill for a 50 I don't have. I need a damn locker room full.

This is going to take some discussion between my ears with the Devil and the Angel. This still does not hide the fact it's overpriced and going to kill my wallet. That's a given

But let me point out a fact I'm damn sure of this Rokinon can match this Batis with no problems at all, forget the freaking price folks. You have to take my word on this part. It's the sharpest tool in my shed. That's saying a lot. It may not be this or that but the resolving power is amazing


DavidBM wrote:
Guy I folded within seconds of the preorder going up.

I'm going to sell my F2 version.

To be fair to me it's not pure GAS. This is a lens I've wanted for like a decade, but thought I would never see.

A moderately fast, fairly compact, relatively light otherwise no compromise medium tele.

I've been moaning to anyone who would listen that we live in an era of huge fast zooms, huge super fast zooms, and compromised in IQ budget smaller lenses. And I thought we'd never see another 2.8/135, especially with AF, because of the market. People would say it's too slow
...Show more


Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 10:43 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:39 PM
ecarlino
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


DavidBM wrote:
Guy I folded within seconds of the preorder going up.

I'm going to sell my F2 version.

To be fair to me it's not pure GAS. This is a lens I've wanted for like a decade, but thought I would never see.

A moderately fast, fairly compact, relatively light otherwise no compromise medium tele.


That's where I'm at myself.
I have f/1.4 lenses @ 35 (ZM), 50 (Zony) & 85 (GM).
If I go with this, I'll have Batis at 18, 25 & 135.

I am actually happy to have a 135 that will weigh less than my 85 but, other than the qualities associated with a faster aperture, perfect in every way.

My pre-order went back in earlier today and I'm #2 at a dealer (West Coast) that always gets plenty of units on day one. I still have a month to think about it, but the more I did today, I have 3 fast big lenses and this will be a fantastic bookend.

I'm getting happier by the hour and frankly the $400 differential between its price and what i was expecting was more of a philosophical b!tch for me. And when you compare vs other 135 alternatives (besides the Samyang) the price isn't even a $400 difference (I don't consider the Canon 135L in the same IQ category).

As you say David, I like this trade-off between aperture vs size/weight while getting a pure optic.


Edited on Apr 05, 2017 at 11:10 PM · View previous versions



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:42 PM
GMPhotography
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Price hurts but sometimes you have to pony up to the bar and buy a round between 100 friends. Ouch

Seriously I'm glad I'm out of MF this would be 8k. Talk about pain



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:46 PM
ecarlino
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Bespoked wrote:
Can it do this?

https://youtu.be/fzuVlThVJxE


I think you need to get over the fact that this isn't an f/1.8 lens.
There's really no point in making the comparison.



Apr 05, 2017 at 10:53 PM
GabrielPhoto
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


ISO1600 wrote:
The Canon 135L is and always has been an absolutely phenomenal lens, and can be had for under $700 these days.


I had two copies I sold for a profit. Didnt see anything phenomenal about it. It was a legend but its very outdated these days. The Samyang runs circles around it being sharper at F2 than the Canon at F4 with little CA unlike the Canon and smoother Bokeh...and much cheaper if you can deal with MF.
Anyways, back to the Batis...which is not in my list at ALL based on 2.8 and much less on a 2K price. At 2.8, heck it better be sharp ..I dont see that as a huge accomplishment.
Of course, there is always people that will find a specific lens to fit their needs and that is fine, but just trying to face the facts that a 2.8 135mm is nothing to be shocked about just because is sharp.
If it was 2 or 1.8 sharp across the frame wide open then I would be impressed.



Apr 05, 2017 at 11:05 PM
Fred Miranda
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


Check out the technical data for the Batis 135/2.8:

https://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/camera-lenses/files/service/download-center/datasheets/batis-lenses/datasheet-zeiss-batis-28135.pdf

Just like the Zeiss 135/2 APO, contrast and resolution are very similar wide open and f/5.6 especially at center and mid-zone. Outstanding MTF.



Apr 05, 2017 at 11:09 PM
virtualrain
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Pre-order: Zeiss Batis 135mm f/2.8 APO ($1,999)


It's funny watching this thread transition from "This is nuts" to "It's not that bad"

It's like GAS has five stages when a new high-end FE lens is announced...
1. Shock
2. Anger
3. Depression
4. Acceptance
5. Pre-order




Apr 05, 2017 at 11:11 PM
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