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Archive 2017 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

So I heard from a friend who called Adorama that if integrating with the Canon RT system, the master unit has to be an Orlit device rather than a Canon device. What I was hoping for was to complement a bunch of 600 EX-RT units I already have with a couple Orlits for things like weddings/events receptions. I would like to keep a Canon flash on each camera as master for bounce fill or direct fill with the Orlits as remotes. It would either be ETTL or with the remotes set to Group mode and remotely set to manual output.

Has anyone tried this and able to confirm whether or not it works in real life? Also, I'm shooting with the 1DX and 1DXII and wondering if anyone has encountered any compatibility issues with these cameras vs. the more common/popular 5D series models. Maybe I should start a new thread?

Jul 11, 2017 at 07:02 PM

elv000
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
So I heard from a friend who called Adorama that if integrating with the Canon RT system, the master unit has to be an Orlit device rather than a Canon device.

No that's not right, the genuine Canon master or transmitter work better at this stage.

Sorry I don't know about the 1 series cameras. The firmware update (V1) was designed for those cameras, though I'm not familiar with the issues. Some people are having issues with the 5D MkIV, though myself and most others see it working fine as long as using a Canon master / transmitter.

Jul 12, 2017 at 10:50 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

OK, thanks. That's reassuring. I'm also hoping Adorama is working on implementing a firmware update solution that is Mac compatible?

Unfortunately there's not much activity on this forum.... where would I find ongoing, up to date discussion about these Orlit/Jinbei lights?

Jul 12, 2017 at 12:09 PM

elv000
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
OK, thanks. That's reassuring. I'm also hoping Adorama is working on implementing a firmware update solution that is Mac compatible?

Unfortunately there's not much activity on this forum.... where would I find ongoing, up to date discussion about these Orlit/Jinbei lights?

Ok, if you purchased an early version of the RT 610 it actually requires a hardware update to make it Mac and Windows 10 compatible.

I run a website on portable flash gear and you can see the update details here - http://flashhavoc.com/orlit-rt-610-hardware-update-program/

These are basically the Jinbei HD 610 strobes, though Adorama / Orlit are meant to have exclusive rights to the Canon RT compatibility with these strobes, though that doesn't appear to be quite the case with the 610 model at least.

The Adorama brands guys have the most information though - [email protected] , so they are generally much more helpful than the regular Adorama customer service.There is at least one person there that's not very helpful though, so if you run into trouble I would email again.

Jul 12, 2017 at 01:59 PM

Helen Oster
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

elv000 wrote:
The Adorama brands guys have the most information though - [email protected] , so they are generally much more helpful than the regular Adorama customer service.

There is at least one person there that's not very helpful though, so if you run into trouble I would email again.

Concerned to see this - can you please send me a PM or email: [email protected] with details?

Jul 12, 2017 at 02:03 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
OK, thanks. That's reassuring. I'm also hoping Adorama is working on implementing a firmware update solution that is Mac compatible?

Unfortunately there's not much activity on this forum.... where would I find ongoing, up to date discussion about these Orlit/Jinbei lights?

elv000 wrote:
Ok, if you purchased an early version of the RT 610 it actually requires a hardware update to make it Mac and Windows 10 compatible.

I run a website on portable flash gear and you can see the update details here - http://flashhavoc.com/orlit-rt-610-hardware-update-program/

These are basically the Jinbei HD 610 strobes, though Adorama / Orlit are meant to have exclusive rights to the Canon RT compatibility with these strobes, though that doesn't appear to be quite the case with the 610 model at least.

The Adorama brands guys have the most information though - [email protected] , so they are generally much more helpful...Show more →

Thanks again. I am familiar with your site, but have not been keeping a close eye on developments there. I'll check it out again.

The info I got is from a colleague who called Adorama, but I'm unsure who he spoke to. Anyway, it sounds like from what I've read (like on POTN) Adorama advises not to use the Canon units as masters but actual users of these products, from the few forum posts I've found, indicate it's not a problem and even preferred.

Jul 12, 2017 at 02:38 PM

elv000
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Helen Oster wrote:
Concerned to see this - can you please send me a PM or email: [email protected] with details?

Hi Helen, I sent you an email. This is the reason I actually contacted you originally to get in contact with the manager at Flashpoint, which has been great ever since.

Edited on Jul 13, 2017 at 01:08 AM · View previous versions

Jul 12, 2017 at 02:46 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

It seems the only other comparable system is the Phottix Indra500LC, but at a considerably higher price point. I've read good things about Phottix's Laso system. Reviews about the Indra500LC are very difficult to find. Has anyone used one in conjunction with Canon RT speedlites? While it's about double the price of the Orlit 610, if it works flawlessly, it could be worth the peace of mind, IMO.

Jul 12, 2017 at 08:46 PM

elv000
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
Adorama advises not to use the Canon units as masters but actual users of these products, from the few forum posts I've found, indicate it's not a problem and even preferred.

Its possible there may be some instance where Adorama may know the Orlit transmitters have a compatibility advantage, though I think its more likely something they shouldn't be saying.

The Orlit range was purchased specifically to cater for the Canon RT system, and at this point the Jinbei transmitters are the weakest point. The strobe used with Genuine Canon gear should be pretty solid.

Hopefully the coming Jinbei TR-Q6 transmitters are a good improvement, though they are not for the RT side of things.

Orlit do have an RT transmitter, and just on quick test it appears to work OK. Though its based on a Shanny RT transmitter, which I know can easily rock forward in the camera hotshoe and lose communication with the camera.

So I think the Canon gear is still the most solid option at this stage. And that's really the main advantage of this strobe, becasue no third party has made a master flash to match the refinement of the 600EX-RT etc at this stage.

Jul 13, 2017 at 02:03 AM

elv000
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
It seems the only other comparable system is the Phottix Indra500LC, but at a considerably higher price point. I've read good things about Phottix's Laso system. Reviews about the Indra500LC are very difficult to find. Has anyone used one in conjunction with Canon RT speedlites? While it's about double the price of the Orlit 610, if it works flawlessly, it could be worth the peace of mind, IMO.

I don't hear much about the Indra in general anymore, because there was a lot of discussion about the color shift they have at lower power levels when using remote manual power control. As the Odin system has always had, they have a pre-flash in remote manual use, because the system basically uses TTL to create pseudo manual power levels.

So you can switch off the Odin receiver mode and set the power levels directly on the flash, and the color shift and pre-flash are not there, as when using the Odin.

When the Indra500LC were released, if you see in the comments in this post, people were thinking the pre-flash and color shift shouldn't be an issue anymore. I still don't know if anyone as confirmed this either way though. And one person mentioned their Laso system has a pre-flash in manual use as well. So that raised doubts again for me as well.

So long story short, I don't really know what to expect. I can't afford to be buying another Indra at the moment just to find out, and I don't have time to do an in depth review so I don't want to ask to borrow a sample. I am going to start comparing all the strobes as a group, with power, flash duration, color temps etc. But that will be with the original Indra at this stage, and is going to take some time, so not of much help right now.

The other thing with the Indra500LC is that it is only Canon RT compatible, where the trend now is cross platform support for Canon, Nikon, Sony, and others. Though I guess beggars can't be choosers and the main priority at this stage may be just getting something that works reliably for what you mainly need it for.

If you do try one though let us know how you went. Likewise with the RT 610 if you do give that a go. EDIT - Or the RT 601, or Rover RT, if that's what you were looking more towards.

Jul 13, 2017 at 02:30 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Thanks very much for the information! Seems every option has its own set of compromises...

Of the Orlit units, it's the Rover RT that interests me the most.

Bottom line what I want is a Canon RT system with something a bit more powerful than the 600 RT speedlites that doesn't overheat at inopportune times during events, such as wedding receptions. Frankly, I'm baffled Canon has not released something of their own in the 200-300 W/s range. Though if they did, I'd guess it would be $$$$.

I've got a mish-mash of studio lighting. A bunch of AlienBee 1600s, a couple Einsteins, an Elinchrom ELB400 and a bunch of older Quadras.

I think for the time being I will pick up a couple Phottix Laso receivers and use them to trigger studio strobes via the Canon RT system. This way I don't need an additional transmitter and can just use 600 RTs on-camera as masters. The Elinchrom gear I can control power remotely with a Skyport transmitter, which I can keep in a pocket out of the way, etc. It's not a perfect solution, but I generally prefer to run slave Canon 600 RTs on manual power settings in Group mode anyway. At the least, assuming the Lasos integrate well with the Canon RT system (by all accounts they should), this will address my two main issues: trigger everything through the Canon RT system and give me good output/power with zero overheating problems, which has been the main annoyance with the 600 RTs as slaves.

Jul 13, 2017 at 08:31 AM

elv000
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
Thanks very much for the information! Seems every option has its own set of compromises...

Of the Orlit units, it's the Rover RT that interests me the most.

Bottom line what I want is a Canon RT system with something a bit more powerful than the 600 RT speedlites that doesn't overheat at inopportune times during events, such as wedding receptions. Frankly, I'm baffled Canon has not released something of their own in the 200-300 W/s range. Though if they did, I'd guess it would be $$$$.

I've got a mish-mash of studio lighting. A bunch of AlienBee 1600s, a couple...Show more →

No worries, if you want something cheaper as an interim solution, the YongNuo YN-E3-RX receivers also work perfectly fine to trigger manual strobes.

Its sounds like you're more after something like the Godox AD200 / EVOLV 200 for the strobes, and Jinbei are working on their own version of those as well (as no doubt everyone will be now), and the Jinbei (likely ORLIT) version will be RT compatible again, so provided the systems all working ok you wouldn't need any separate radio gear.

Even with the Rover RT and current RT 610, I'm not sure that there are even any major common issues now. I've only heard about 4 people with issues, and I think they were all in relation to the 5D mk4. And even then myself and others have seen the 5D mk4 working fine as well. The one case I'm still not sure about at the moment is this one - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1483208&goto=newpost

If there were widespread or common issues we would be hearing a lot more people complaining by now. And to be fair to the Indra500LC at least some people would be complaining if they were having any major issues with those as well.

It shouldn't be a big deal making reliable RT slave strobes, its the transmitter side of things that's far more difficult to refine. In hindsight Adorma / ORLIT maybe should have just released the strobes alone, to be used as slaves to the original RT master/transmitters, while Jinbei refine the transmitters in the mean time. Jinbei have also basically come from nothing a short time ago in regards to their radio systems.

Jul 14, 2017 at 01:15 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Yes, the AD200 would be ideal if it had Canon RT compatibility. It's reassuring to know there will likely be something from Jinbei/Adorama, eventually.

Since 600EXRT overheating is one of the main problems I'm trying to solve, I rediscovered that Nissin offers the MG8000 Extreme Flash. I had forgotten about it. Difficult to find decent reviews about it. But it seems to address the overheating problem. Unfortunately its price point is quite high and wouldn't be surprised if most would rather get something like an AD200 or the 360 bare bulb flash.

Thanks for the YongNuo link, but I bought some Phottix Laso receivers instead. Just felt better about it, its reviews, etc. They arrived today and in limited testing with only studio strobes, worked perfectly triggered by a Canon STE3RT. Wondering if a Laso would properly control the Nissin MG8000... (it's unclear from Nissin's marketing materials whether it is RT compatible or only with Canon's optical triggering system)

Jul 17, 2017 at 10:46 PM

elv000
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

The Nissin MG8000 is actually discontinued at the moment, though they are working on a new model now which will have their own radio system built inside - http://flashhavoc.com/nissin-new-extreme-master-flash-coming/

I'm holding out a lot of hope for that flash, though thats really getting sidetracked from your situation looking for an RT compatible solution.

I don't know how the current MG8000 would go with the Laso, though the Godox AD360II-C do currently work with the Laso, so that is currently one option. And people are often selling those at the moment, moving to the AD200.

That compatibility could be tenuous though with future firmware updates (which likely affect you more than anyone relying 1 series cameras).

Personally in your situation I would have given the Rover RT a go first to see if you need to rule that out. At this stage theres nothing to say it may not work perfectly fine. You could talk to the brands guys at Adorama and let them know you just want to try one to see if they will work reliably with your 1 series cameras. In any case I think you normally have 30 days to return the flash if its not suitable.

Jinbei will be the main ones offering RT gear so its in their interest to refine them. Hopefully Phottix are also developing good new strobes with Elinchrom, though I really don't know where they are actually heading at the moment.

Jul 19, 2017 at 01:35 AM

rscheffler
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

The Rover RT is what interests me most from the Orlit line at Adorama. Price, power portability and a fairly small/light head to have up ~13' on a stand is less worrying than a relatively heavy monolight. I see Adorama has it on pre-order now.

Jul 19, 2017 at 07:27 AM

Helen Oster
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Here is the link of our Orlit upgrade: https://www.adorama.com/g/orlit-download-page

Jul 22, 2017 at 03:07 PM

EA6B
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Been on pre-order for quite a while!

E

Jul 22, 2017 at 07:04 PM

rscheffler
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

Just back from a wedding and the Phottix Laso receivers worked pretty much perfectly for reception coverage, triggering my Quadras combined with Canon 600EXRTs as master units and for bounce flash fill of near subjects. Of course no overheating problems. I think I can finally file away my Pocket Wizards, at least for any work with my Canon system. Wish I'd looked into the Lasos earlier.

I'm still interested in the Orlit Rover RTs but it's a less pressing need now.

Helen Oster wrote:
Here is the link of our Orlit upgrade: https://www.adorama.com/g/orlit-download-page

Glad to see Mac compatibility for firmware updates. Without this I possibly wouldn't have even considered the Orlit line. Will the Rover RT also be firmware updatable via Macs?

Jul 22, 2017 at 11:28 PM

Helen Oster
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
Glad to see Mac compatibility for firmware updates. Without this I possibly wouldn't have even considered the Orlit line. Will the Rover RT also be firmware updatable via Macs? Yes, it will

Aug 02, 2017 at 02:47 PM

KatManDEW
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Interesting Orlit/Adorama (Jinbei?) Mystery Flashes

rscheffler wrote:
Just reading some of the Orlit 610 reviews (TTL version) over at Adorama... came across this one:

Problems with unit and support
By jeanine h. - Professional
Love the light but already had to return due to malfunctioning. Very little support on issues and wrong support on audible beep not working. Flash would work fine then make a loud pop and overexpose in TTL mode for a few exposures. The flash is awesome though so decided to try again. Waiting for new unit, found out new firmware update available but it only is for Windows. Got a very rude message back from adorama...Show more →
Having similar problems - Flash would work fine then make a loud pop and overexpose in TTL mode. It also keeps losing connectivity with my Canon 5D Mark IV and a Canon ST-E3-RT transmitter.

I upgraded the firmware to V1 and it didn't help. Then came a V2 firmware which required factory service to install, so I sent mine back and they sent me one with V2 firmware. It didn't help either.

Someone in another forum reported contacting the manufacturer and receiving the following reply;

"Our engineer just checked the problem carefully and found there could be a compatibility problem between our RT-610 and ST-E3-RT transmitter. In addition, we also found the connection between ST-E3-RT and Canon 5D Mark IV might be not stable enough. It is hard for us to update the firmware according to ST-E3-RT as that might bring other problems according to above judgement."

Aug 04, 2017 at 08:53 PM

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