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Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their A...
  
 
ZachOly
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


https://petapixel.com/2017/03/28/photographers-claim-instagram-shadow-banning-accounts/

And just when you thought Instagram was the pinnacle for wedding photographers.

Lots of people reporting a recent drop "likes" and post engagement, too.

Over the past few weeks, the PetaPixel tip line has been flooded by reports of Instagram ‘shadow banning’ accounts. This practice, ostensibly limited to business accounts, is destroying engagement on these photographer’s profiles.

The term “shadow ban”—also called “stealth” or “ghost” banning—refers to banning a person’s account without them knowing it. From their perspective, everything seems normal, but nobody else can actually see the photos or comments or videos they’re posting.

In the case of Instagram, these “bans” seem to be limited to the tagging system. According to several reader reports, and confirmed with screenshots sent to us by the affected users, their images are no longer visible on Instagram’s hashtag pages when the page is viewed by someone who does not follow their account. Several photographers sent us screenshots proof.



Mar 29, 2017 at 12:18 PM
BKphotography
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Social media controls far too much of what we see.

My Instagram has taken a bit of a dive recently (could be my photography is going downhill, very possible).

Facebook is one of the worst, organic views are terrible as we all know.

YouTube are not showing the channels that we subscribe to. They show what they think we want to see by default. Really stupid if you ask me.

Twitter is censoring and kicking people off, especially accounts with conservative & right-wing views.

Basically, they have too much influence on how people view the world around them.

Maybe someone should develop a new platform that isn't controlling every aspect of our online presence... or bring back forums!



Mar 29, 2017 at 01:08 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


BKphotography wrote:
Social media controls far too much of what we see.

Maybe someone should develop a new platform that isn't controlling every aspect of our online presence... or bring back forums!


It's not going to get any better after this: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/senate-votes-let-isps-sell-your-data-without-consent-n737921



Mar 29, 2017 at 03:30 PM
BKphotography
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


MRomine wrote:
It's not going to get any better after this: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/senate-votes-let-isps-sell-your-data-without-consent-n737921



And some of us believe we live in a democracy...



Mar 29, 2017 at 05:22 PM
BSPhotog
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


ZachOly wrote:
https://petapixel.com/2017/03/28/photographers-claim-instagram-shadow-banning-accounts/

And just when you thought Instagram was the pinnacle for wedding photographers.

Lots of people reporting a recent drop "likes" and post engagement, too.

Over the past few weeks, the PetaPixel tip line has been flooded by reports of Instagram ‘shadow banning’ accounts. This practice, ostensibly limited to business accounts, is destroying engagement on these photographer’s profiles.

The term “shadow ban”—also called “stealth” or “ghost” banning—refers to banning a person’s account without them knowing it. From their perspective, everything seems normal, but nobody else can actually see the photos or comments or videos they’re posting.

In the case of Instagram, these “bans”
...Show more

I guess it is a good thing that I never rolled my account into a "business account" when they introduced that then. To be fair to IG, this could be the byproduct of an attempt to cut the spam/bots out there. Or not. Hopefully they'll address this soon, though.



Mar 29, 2017 at 07:26 PM
MRomine
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


BKphotography wrote:
And some of us believe we live in a democracy...


It's amazing



Mar 29, 2017 at 07:28 PM
glort
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts



There is more than a little irony to using a service or product by choice, and a free one at that, then complaining about it and how it's run.... Especially when it's something as here today and gone tomorrow as SM.

What people refuse to get, and refuse by choice rather than just ignorance, is these platforms are not the be all and end all of marketing and advertising as so many argue they are.
Yes, they are significant but are they effective? Clearly for some the answer is a resounding NO!

I always questioned FB and was always shot down for it. I questioned the value of putting all the effort and time into getting likes and doing whatever was the prescribed goal of being seen. I questioned the value to a business in real and financial terms of a business that had say 10K likes and a similar one that had none.
As much as it rubbed people up the wrong way whom only wanted to believe FB was all they needed, I think few now would not say my concerns have proven to be 100% valid. Funny how no one argues with me when I say less than glowing things about FB now like they would have just a couple of years back.

I'm not clever or smart, I'm thick as 2 bricks BUT, I did have my eyes open and was working on the obvious fact rather than letting emotion come into it. Take out the personal attachment and work purely on fact and straight logic and it was plainly obvious.

I see no reason why the next big SM thing and the one after that into perpetuity would be any different. They work on the same business models as Drug dealers and Crapple. Get them hooked and then you have control.
And control you they will... into paying them up to the point of what the market will stand at the maximum profit point.
And that my fellow one man bands lives you right out in the cold.

These SM concerns are companies. They are concerned with THEIR bottom line, not yours. They will do whatever they elieve ( right or often wrong) their Mainstream users want, not other businesses they are not deriving advertising Dollars from.
I know nothing about insta but I suspect they are probably trying or doing a FB and trying to drive businesses to paying for advertising with them. Your pictures can't be seen, No problem, pay us and we'll make sure they are.

Photographers in this case I'd say are making the same mistake photographers make on the flip side. Offering a low priced/ free product and then trying to put the price up and getting a revolt because the client is educated they can get it at the lower cost.

That's what the SM sites are doing only the thing is, unlike Photography clients, for the shooters as clients there is not much choice in alternatives as they themselves have largely been responsible for building these sites into the virtual monopoly's they have become.

As has been mentioned in other threads here recently, there are shooters here that make GOOD full time livings and don't use SM.
To knock a few noses out of joint once again, the reason social media as advertising platforms are so popular is because they can be effective for the clueless. You don't have to have any knowledge of business, marketing or advertising to put things on these sites and get -some- business. You can do a lot wrong and still pull in some clients just by fitting the gushy, brainless mindset.

This is not to say that the traditional, NON SM methods have suddenly stopped working. Look at any significant company and unlike shooters, SM is not all they do. They still are advertising in print, radio and TV, sponsoring events and getting their name out there just as they always did.
They just added SM to the marketing mix, they didn't divert all their advertising and promo to it and cancel everything else nor rely on it as their only marketing method like so many shooters seem to do.

These SM sites are always going to do the same thing. Pull people in, establish their popularity and domination of the market and then start charging advertisers for the free space they gave them when they needed them in the buildup Phase.
This idea they should be forever benevolent and have other businesses interests at heart is not rational. They will be sensitive to your position when you are Like GM or Red Bull paying them $10M a year in advertising fees but if you are some one man band bitching because they aren't running your piece for free anymore and it's hurting the likes or subscribers or whatever you get, I doubt they will even pay someone to read your email let alone act on it.

I'm looking to get things going again and relaunch one of my photo businesses and I haven't even thought of SM as a lead source.
Firstly let me admit is because of pure ignorance and dislike.
2ndly and more significantly, is by considered choice.

With that in the first regard, I don't believe I have to. I know enough about traditional methods that I am reasonably confident as anyone can be that the same marketing methods I used in the past and do understand will be enough. I also believe the money, effort and time invested will have a much longer payoff.
I haven't advertised weddings in years yet I am still getting inquiries and booking jobs. Anyone still getting that from their myspacedout efforts from years back or any other now defunct SM? From what I understand many wouldn't even be getting any inquiries from the FB accounts they invested so much in and are still there!

Yes, my preferred methods are not Free Financially, time, effort and certainly not free of investment in skill and learning. The thing I look at is the life time value.
I have proven that even when I stop doing these things, they will still keep working even at a much reduced degree.

And the 2nd part of the choice is demonstrated right here.
Faith. Or lack thereof.
I never liked FB but those who did were maybe the most convincing reason not to.
People worked hard at it but the rules kept changing. They kept changing often without notice and MANY people felt very dejected and upset that they were being hard done by as their effectiveness in reaching new clients and the cost were inversely proportional.
Now I see the self same thing happening with the new flavour of the month.
And I'll guarantee its just going to be the start.

My " outdated" ways haven't changed. a lot of the ideas and methods were hatched in the '50s. Some here will already be scoffing at that statement. Given ALL major companies and significant businesses in the entire world still use those old fashioned principals, I'll stick with them too.

My biggest concern with SM is that it is an unstable platform. Seems as soon as people work it out and learn it, it changes. Some propeller head at FB changes the " Algorithm" and suddenly what you learned before is all out the window and you are back to step 1. The traditional advertising I prefer is still pretty much linear. what you did 20 years ago still would be as effective or not depending on how well you did it, today. At very least, it gives one the chance to do some fine tuning and find the sweet spot.

Sm to me is like a shooting game where not only does the target move, but the aim point in your sights does too!

At the end of the day, the solution to this problem with instafacetwitchat is very simple.
If you don't like the way it works, stop using it and put your effort into something else.




Mar 30, 2017 at 03:11 AM
hardlyboring
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


I don't have much knowledge about the backend of FB or IG and why they do things but I don't really rely on either for business much. I post to both but mostly it is just for fun. Especially my IG account. I mostly post personal travel stuff on my IG account. I have literally never gotten any business from IG.
On FB I just tell clients to share the post and they do and sometimes parents do as well. That helps but in the end I am not worried about it much.



Mar 30, 2017 at 04:00 PM
Mark_L
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Unfortunately any reliance on a social media platform is a very serious business risk. Their money making objectives and ours rarely line up long term and their house = their rules.


Apr 01, 2017 at 12:01 PM
glort
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Mark_L wrote:
Unfortunately any reliance on a social media platform is a very serious business risk. Their money making objectives and ours rarely line up long term and their house = their rules.


Exactly.

It goes back to a very old rule in business, the Parthenon principle.

You don't have reliance on one lead generation source, you spread the load over many different avenues so if one Crumbles, The roof doesn't come crashing down on your head because the rest can shoulder the weight of the load.

No doubt SM works great for some people but relying on it for all your incoming work is a very bad practice by the operator of a business and with something that is as fickle as SM, A very dangerous practice as many have and will find out.





Apr 01, 2017 at 01:11 PM
 

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ckhagen
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


I book pretty decently from Instagram but virtually nothing from Facebook. I feel like... with Instagram (right now) if you just hashtag things correctly and post regularly enough, it works. But Facebook is a lost cause without dumping hundreds of dollars a month into it.

hardlyboring wrote:
I don't have much knowledge about the backend of FB or IG and why they do things but I don't really rely on either for business much. I post to both but mostly it is just for fun. Especially my IG account. I mostly post personal travel stuff on my IG account. I have literally never gotten any business from IG.
On FB I just tell clients to share the post and they do and sometimes parents do as well. That helps but in the end I am not worried about it much.




Apr 01, 2017 at 03:20 PM
Littleguy
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Comparing SM & Traditional marketing is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.

Most photographers use SM because its free to use - which traditional marketing method is free to use (TV, radio, newspaper, flyers, tele-marketing, door to door, trade shows, etc?).

Question that should be asked is - if I invest $100 in SM vs investing that same $100 in traditional marketing - what is the return via each method?

As a free method - one has to move from one method to the next favor of the season as things change - SM or Traditional...




Apr 03, 2017 at 09:08 PM
glort
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Littleguy wrote:
Comparing SM & Traditional marketing is kind of like comparing apples and oranges.


Really? In what way? The goal of both is to drive people to your business and make them aware of what you do and turn them into paying clients. The platforms may be different but the rules and principles involved are the same as is the end goal.

Most photographers use SM because its free to use - which traditional marketing method is free to use (TV, radio, newspaper, flyers, tele-marketing, door to door, trade shows, etc?).

When it comes to marketing, most photographers don't know their arse from their elbow.
Who gives a shit if the advertising is free or not? It's the end result and what you get from the advertising initiative that counts!

I think the " free" thing is exactly why most shooters are so hung up on SM and blinded by it.
The underlying reason for that is they don't understand basic business principals.
If I spend 2K on advertising at a bridal fair and get 10 bookings worth $50K, the return on my investment is a good one. If I spend an hour a day on SM to get 12 weddings a year, then I would say the returns are not so hot at all.
The other reason shooters use free SM is they probably realise their marketing efforts are going to be low return based on past experience and poor ads they they did so if they don't get anything back from a free ad, less lost than a paid one.

The very fact you try to defend SM because it's free against other advertising that costs money shows your inherent lack of understanding of marketing. Like someone recently lamented the the cost of a value added incentive to a client and what they could buy with that rather than look at the much greater profit they could earn from winning said client over and how much more they could buy with that over what they saw as a loss in the cost of the value added.
It's a completely backwards way of looking at things.

It's like complaining you aren't going to go to work because it costs you $30 Bux a week in fuel or bus fares. It's the $1000 a week you earn that keeps the roof over your head and the food on the table, you don't piss and moan about the $30 weekly train ticket to get there.
The investment in that is more than covered and it's a cost of earning your living.
You could probably walk for free but leaving home at 5am and getting home at 8pm doing a 9-5 job may not be the most sensible way of doing things regardless of cost. .
It would also be like saying you aren't going to take the $1000 a week job but instead you'll take the one 5 min down the road you can walk to that only pays $600 a week so you don't have to pay for the weekly bus pass.

If SM being free was of any significance, why do you think big business still pays Millions a year in print, TV, Radio and web advertising? Why do that when they could save all that money and just do free SM? The fact many spend Millions on SM anyway only undermines the free position further.

Question that should be asked is - if I invest $100 in SM vs investing that same $100 in traditional marketing - what is the return via each method?

The answer to your question is " Who's doing the ad and how competent is it?"

I'll bet you $100K, You write a marketing piece and place it and I write one, Mine will pull more clients and/or make more profit than yours will all year long. I'd be happy to do one marketing piece that cost $100 and you can do all the free or $100 SM promo you like and I guarantee you at the end of the month, I'll have made a ship load more profit or pulled in more bookings/ customers than you.
Knowing how to market, promote, advertise and sell is what counts and would allow me to beat you every time in that challenge.

With respect, clearly you haven't got a clue nor have put any time into learning about marketing or advertising related practices.
I'll also bet that your knowledge of equipment, editing and many other things photo related would kick my arse all over the paddock and there is a better than good chance your work would leave mine for dead. However, in the profit and bottom line stakes, I'll still take you on with unbridled confidence and pull rabbits out the hat you never even heard of.


As a free method - one has to move from one method to the next favor of the season as things change - SM or Traditional...



More importantly, before you even get to that, one has to have the knowledge to assess where and what the best form of marketing for the given product or service is.

I have done Pissant little local bridal fairs that ran for 3 Hours and were organised by some high school kids that cost me $50 and I pulled 4 bookings out of. I have done other promos that cost thousands, like the scam of yellow pages, and got stuff all.
Marketing is not just about SM , print, web or TV or Radio. There are a whole load of other forms of very effective advertising and knowing which is the most appropriate for your product or service is key.
Moving from one channel of SM to another may be going from one mistake to another because SM, ( or any other channel of marketing) may not be the right one for your service or product from the start.

I pulled over $150K in the first year ( or part of) I did swim school Photography.
I didn't spend near $100 on marketing for that in the whole time I did it nor did I do any advertising what so ever.
I simply looked up the swim schools on the net, got on the phone and rang the co ordinator to set up a meeting, went and saw them and presented my self printed information pack which cost me less than $4 each to produce and walked out every time with the deal bar once. The worst NET return we had was a fraction over $3k, the best over 10K and the average was about $5K.
I was booked solid and as most councils or leisure company's owned more than one pool, some I was asked to do and didn't even have to spend another $4 or make another call.

I could have spend $10K " advertising " that business or spent none at all on SM and still not got more than a couple of gigs. Advertising that line of work was not the way to go.
Direct Contact/ Promo was without a doubt.
And that is why I am going to win our $100 marketing competition every single time. It's not about SM or traditional marketing, it's about placement of the marketing initiative in the most effective medium AND, having the knowledge and ability that piece that works.
Just like being a good shooter, writing an effective ad that pulls leads takes an investment in time, practice and developed skill. Your investment in that learning will be reflected in the returns on what your ad produces. No investment, don't expect much in the way of returns.
Knowing how to analyse where to spend that money for the best return is critical and that not advertising at all may in fact be the very best way of going about promoting certain markets.

If we confine ourselves to the wedding market in our competition, I wouldn't spend any money on advertising nor would I probably bother with SM, free or otherwise.
I'd have business cards printed and produce my own flyers and hit the phone to other established suppliers to do an incentive program for them to hand out my info to their clients.
I'd get in front of them and push what our arrangement could do for them and how having me onside would benifit their bottom line. I would talk very little about the photography or boring the shit out of them with technicalities or talk about my equipment, editing, what I like etc.

I would do a website as a secondary information source and go from there.
My website would not have prices other than a "From" price. It would also have all the information a client needed to make the purchasing decision and make an emotion ownership.before they even rang me ( which would be encouraged over email and Fk FB messaging or the like) There would also be calls to action to encourage the prospect to make contact ASAP.

If I have 10 Businesses referring me and I get just one booking from each through the leads per month, I'm already over what I can probably handle.
NO SM, no paid advertising. For a market as saturated as the wedding market, I do not believe it is the most effective way for me to meet new prospects and get in front of them.

One thing with paid and traditional advertising is you get to know the rules up front. They don't keep changing their " algorithm" every month or 3 limiting the number of people your ad reaches before you have to pay or pay more, nor keep making the effectiveness lesser at the same time as making the effort to get diminishing returns much greater.
The illogical factors in that alone give SM a much wider appeal to other people than it does to me that's for sure!

Given the problems with the "free" SM as they are, I'll take paid marketing which gives me far greater control of the returns I get from it any day .



Apr 03, 2017 at 11:46 PM
Littleguy
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


True the basis of marketing doesn’t change just because your channel changes. But SM is the only channel that has a “free” option. Traditional marketing doesn’t do “free”. Hence why I don’t think you can compare when you want to chose a free option. Of course, one can argue that the free option may not be the best choice but that’s a different argument.

I define “free” as external costs. Sure there are internal costs to free but internal costs are really opportunity costs – so if you are fully booked up and have no extra time – your OP will be high and that “free” SM isn’t so free anymore. But if you have no clients or only a few clients and lots of down time – your OP is low to free.

But let’s run with your assumption that you are Don Draper the greatest marketer in the world and I am just the Littleguy who knows nothing about marketing. Why would me spending money on traditional marketing get me further than spending money on SM – if I suck at marketing, I am not all of the sudden going to improve when I switch my channel to traditional marketing?

Don’t know why the hate for SM. SM offers you the whole spectrum of options – you can do free or you can spend a million dollars if you want to and it allows you to tightly focus on your target if you so chose. So I agree with you that if I know nothing about Marketing – that SM’s ability to tightly focus on my targets will be useless if I don’t know what to say but moving to a traditional channels isn’t going to fix that. But if I was Don Draper – the greatest marketer in the world and not just the Littleguy who knows nothing about marketing – I won’t ignore SM just because it isn’t one of the traditional channels or because it has a free option.



Apr 04, 2017 at 04:29 PM
LeeSimms
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


My time is not free.


Apr 04, 2017 at 04:45 PM
glort
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


Littleguy wrote:
But let’s run with your assumption that you are Don Draper the greatest marketer in the world and I am just the Littleguy who knows nothing about marketing. Why would me spending money on traditional marketing get me further than spending money on SM – if I suck at marketing, I am not all of the sudden going to improve when I switch my channel to traditional marketing?


You Missed my Point I was trying to get through.
It's not about the returns you would get from SM or traditional marketing, it's about how well you do the ad in the first place. You are right, if you are a dilettante and ignorant in business skills that are the first things you should have learnt, then then the medium you choose is irrelevant.

I never said spending money on marketing would get your further than with free advertising, I was trying to point out the knowledge and skill you have in marketing in the first place is the more important factor. In this case, if you, whom clearly has never spent any time learning marketing or advertising does an ad in any medium and spends a realistic amount on advertising and I'm limited to $100, ( or free) my initiatives will bring in more clients and profit than yours pretty much in perpetuity. Not because of the medium but because of the inherent understanding of it and of the market we are addressing.

What I'm trying to get across is that the cost of the marketing is irrelevant, it's the time and effort you put into learning that which is the real important factor along with the returns you get.

If I know marketing and you don't, any advertising I do will be better than what you attempt.
The more saturated the market, the greater the competition, the more limited the advertising Budget, the better the knowledgeable person will do. Every single time.
Same as with anything else someone whom has practiced a skill or trade would do as against someone whom has no idea of it. That is just common sense.


Don’t know why the hate for SM.

No Hate ( which seems a very SM term for anything anyone isn't gushing flowers and rainbows for) but rather a criticism as it being a far less than the be all marketing platform so many including yourself Champion. Although, after years of pointing out the flaws of FB, instead of getting shouted down now, I get next to no opposition on my position given everyone has seen how that has gone and I wasn't as ignorant as I was made out in what I said all along.

Hate is an emotion, I'm working on facts, logic, documented History and well established principals which many would not be aware of when I criticism SM and point out it's limitations and flaws. If that makes me a " Hater", it also makes others completely ignorant and Naive.


SM offers you the whole spectrum of options – you can do free or you can spend a million dollars if you want to and it allows you to tightly focus on your target if you so chose. So I agree with you that if I know nothing about Marketing – that SM’s ability to tightly focus on my targets will be useless if I don’t know what to say but moving to a traditional channels isn’t going to fix that.

Tell me, what good is that " Free" advertising going to do you when a person is spending time working on ads to attract clients and they are being suckered by the Media owner who is blocking their ads from being seen but not telling the advertiser who keeps on wasting their time working on ads that are going no where? Thats what this thread was about so tell me how that " Free" advertising benefits these people?

While we are at it, lets get some people to chime in about how many clients their Faceboob free advertising is pulling them in right now. Especially the people that busted their guts to get people to " Like" their page which you can go back years here and see I said was useless all along.

The fact is, Today, SM is not such a great medium to be relying on for FREE advertising at all.
There are endless FREE online classifieds and sites I can put an ad but because they are free does not meant they are effective and that is EXACTLY what this is about unles one wants to stick their head in the sand or put their hands over their ears and stand there going na na na na all day long.

1st hand accounts and experience well illustrates that SM's direction is no where near as tight as they make out. In order to target the market selectively, it's anything but free which seems to be the thing which is of the most importance to you. From what I have seen, time you pay for that targeted reach to your clients, you would probably reach more people or the same targets cheaper and more effectively with traditional advertising. And the advertising would be more long lived, be less hassle execute and reach a broader range of your target market.

In the wedding market, You cannot get more targeted and more " Free" advertising than with establishing relationships with other vendors Much of this can be done without financial cost by referals in kind or you can pay a " Finders" fee. The beauty of that is you only pay when the customer has booked you, not on the people that have seen your ad of which there is always going to be a good amount of non appropriate viewers no matter how targeted.

If you are wanting to do targeted advertising you are willing to pay for, put an ad in a bridal magazine. That's about as targeted as you are ever going to get..... unless you work with say a wedding reception place and have them handing out your info to their booked clients.


But if I was Don Draper – the greatest marketer in the world and not just the Littleguy who knows nothing about marketing – I won’t ignore SM just because it isn’t one of the traditional channels or because it has a free option.

It seems so curious to me that you keep going on about SM being free.
Tell me, do you use a free editing program for your work or did you invest in photoshop/ light room or another commercial paid for product?
do you use a free camera your uncle gave you or have you invested in up to date equipment?
If you didn't take the FREE option, why not? Because it wasn't the best tool for the Job?
I would say that if it's not the best or a very valid tool, then the free part is worthless.

Hey, If you want a free car or up to 5 Free cars a week, let me know. I'll give you all you want. Of course they don't go, most of them don't even have engines unless the engines are stuffed and they are all missing doors, headlights, bumpers etc, but according to you, that's a different argument.
The main thing is, they are FREE!!!
Step right up folks... and bring your own tow truck. I'll fork them on for you for FREE!

Apart from free, the only attribute of SM you have mentioned is it's ability to be targeted which is anything BUT free. You have made no mention of things like market saturation, response, demographic of the audience, lifetime and viewership of the ad nor anything else that one normally looks at with any advertising piece.
To you it seems the Free is the be all and end all of the medium except when its' no longer free any more and targeted.

That's what I think is the REAL attraction to a lot of people with SM, in effect it allows them to be lazy and largely ignorant to a very important part of business but one that does not hold the interest for them that looking at gear reviews and playing with editing does.

Sorry to be blunt but if you knew even the basics of advertising, you would know that a good marketing plan relys on a whole spread of initiatives to attract customers to that business and the golden rule of advertising and marketing is don't put all your eggs in one basket, be that basket free or not.

That's my biggest gripe with SM. It leads people to think that's it's free and easy when it's in fact anything but.

To me that "Free" medium isn't worth a pinch of ship when a person spends time targeting and working on regular updates to get their piece seen only to have the game changed, almost constantly and without warning.

When a person's advertising is underhandedly blocked from the public's view while it appears to be seen and the business owner is wasting their time working on it trying to bring people in, you can shove your "Free" advertising right up your Kyhber pass because not only is it not free, it's a terrible detriment in lost time and effort and I can't think of something that would cost a small business more than that would.





Apr 04, 2017 at 11:52 PM
RustyBug
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


glort wrote:
The very fact you try to defend SM because it's free against other advertising that costs money shows your inherent lack of understanding of marketing.


+1
Free (or cheaper) does not always equate to better outcome.

I ran a (non-photography) repair project where the goal was to reduce costs. There were 20 different similar projects being run. Instead of spending less on the repairs to reduce costs, I spent more than double on the repairs than they had been spending, while all others focused on reducing the cost of the repair itself. In the end, all of my repairs lasted longer and thus reduced costs overall (to the tune of about $700 million over the life of the project) As it turns out, only one project met the overall goals ... you can guess which one.

When developing an ROI against something that is free, the math seems largely in your favor ... at least above the water line. Those things that are beneath the surface can be costly as well, and can sneak up on you to really change your ROI when you take all things into account.

I'm really not very qualified to speak to SM ... I don't use it, it confounds me. I've had plenty of folks tell me I should be using it. Truth be known ... it might do me well to do so (except I'm in a non-photo career, atm) as part of a startup initiative ... who knows.

But, my point is that just because something is free / cheap up front ... doesn't mean it will be doing you more favors in the long run. Sure, there are those who will claim excellence in SM, and there will be those who do so. But, in the end, there is no such thing as a "Free Lunch" ... somebody is paying for it, somewhere, somehow, someway. Riding the wave of those things where someone else is "footing the bill" ... it can have benefit, until they get tired of footing the bill. And typically, that comes along somewhere down the road.

Imo, one of the things that is so attractive regarding SM, is the ease of startup with it compared to the slow build of more traditional methods. For many, that combined with its price is a strong attractant to SM. But, somewhere along the line, I would expect that the FREE stuff will run its course and either become a PAID item, or a REDUCED item. The laws of supply & demand kinda dictate the inevitability of such ... recalling, that there is no such thing as free lunch, especially not forever. Sooner or later, the check begins to come due in one form or another.

To borrow from the old Fram commercial ... "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."

Thus ... when it starts happening, it should be expected. Imo, that is part of understanding marketing, and the business of marketing (i.e. SM vs. traditional). Not unlike paying cash for somethings vs. using a CC for others. If you live on CC only ... well, that may not last forever.

Personally, I don't care for the terms of use with most SM. For others, it suits them just fine. But, I do agree that it comes as little surprise that a time comes when SM starts bending things around away from advantage us, to advantage them (which has always been about advantage them, truth be told). To what degree it is a beneficial symbiotic relationship when one gets a "free ride" ... ask the sucker fish who ride the shark which direction things are going. They'll probably tell you to ask the shark.






Sep 20, 2017 at 12:19 PM
Mitch W
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


I know we all like to bash social media, but I think a lot of that stems from not knowing how to use it to your advantage. Social media, especially Instagram, has been incredible for me. Just treat it like the tool it is and go by the old idiom - don't put all your eggs in one basket. We've had this conversation before. I'm no longer a wedding photographer (last wedding shot in Nov 2015), now I photograph toys for a living. Companies have a large presence on Instagram and if your work focuses on their products, or like products, or in a style that appeals to them, there is a good chance that they'll eventually have visibility to your work. As an example - I recently created 2 images, strictly for fun, of Kermit the frog with one of my favorite beer brands. I tagged the beer on my post, and the next day that beer brand liked my image and commented on how much they loved it. That's the power of social media. I've now made an impression, and a connection with a potential client. Well, toys and beer don't necessarily mix, but who knows. And I connected with my largest client, one of the biggest toy companies in the world, on Instagram - they found me. If I was still a wedding photographer I would be creating images that spoke to specific venues, planners and vendors I wanted to connect and work with. And I'm pretty sure I'd build new business with it. Will it last forever? Nothing lasts forever haha. But while it exists I will continue to use it as one of my tools to build and promote my business. I put my website link back in case anyone is curious. And the Facebook badge actually links to my Instagram page.


Sep 20, 2017 at 01:05 PM
ZachOly
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


I don't know about anyone else, but I'm back to getting way better results from FB than I am with Insta.

In my experience, FB=local and Insta=photogs



Sep 20, 2017 at 01:05 PM
amonline
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Photographers Claim Instagram is ‘Shadow Banning’ Their Accounts


You guys love to jump on SPAMMER BUMPED TOPICS.


Sep 20, 2017 at 01:28 PM
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