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Archive 2017 · have we reached the plateau ??

  
 
CanadaMark
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · have we reached the plateau ??


chez wrote:
Give it another generation on the EVF and I think you might be surprised. It's amazing that all the sports are video'd using EVF...and they seem to manage quite nicely.


The problem is that an EVF just displays data from an imaging sensor. Now imagine how far we are from a camera sensor with my above criteria (perfect DR everywhere, zero noise at *any* ISO, zero lag). Should we get to that point, I will be far more excited about what that does to the camera industry than I will be about finally having a decent EVF. Or maybe I won't care about cameras at all anymore because I'll be flying around in my car like the Jetsons



Mar 29, 2017 at 12:22 PM
savingspaces
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · have we reached the plateau ??


CanadaMark wrote:
Meh, every single time this exact question has been asked before, it's been proven wrong. The 'practical use' definition also varies wildly from person to person. So personally I don't think so. Most people thought 12MP and good ISO 1600 was more than one could ever ask for. Then we thought 36MP was WAY too much and would suck beyond base ISO, but it ended up changing the entire industry in a good way.

Sensor technology has somewhat hit a wall overall (ISO performance across all sensors normalized to the same MP is roughly the same these days) and has been
...Show more

What equipment do you use Mark if you don't mind me asking?



Mar 29, 2017 at 12:59 PM
chez
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · have we reached the plateau ??


CanadaMark wrote:
The problem is that an EVF just displays data from an imaging sensor. Now imagine how far we are from a camera sensor with my above criteria (perfect DR everywhere, zero noise at *any* ISO, zero lag). Should we get to that point, I will be far more excited about what that does to the camera industry than I will be about finally having a decent EVF. Or maybe I won't care about cameras at all anymore because I'll be flying around in my car like the Jetsons


Are you saying that your OVF has perfect DR everywhere...even in dim light. I find it very hard to use an OVF in dim light as its just too dim....not even looking at the extremely limited DR in the dim light.



Mar 29, 2017 at 01:07 PM
brian_sp
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · have we reached the plateau ??


arbitrage wrote:
As you say, they both get results and both are excellent systems. In my 8 months when shooting smaller birds like ducks and ravens and magpies in flight the 1DX2 gets a better hit rate than the D500. That was mostly where my comment came from. For larger birds there is no difference, my little Canon M5 can focus on an eagle in flight.



really
you are actually going to sit here comparing your 1dx2 with expensive glass to the D500 with the 200-500




Mar 29, 2017 at 01:39 PM
pieceofdebri
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · have we reached the plateau ??


I like the guy's analogy to musical instruments. You'll still be able to take a shiddy photo with a 3D camera. We'll be fine.


Mar 29, 2017 at 02:15 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · have we reached the plateau ??


savingspaces wrote:
What equipment do you use Mark if you don't mind me asking?


It changes, but at the moment I am using:

D810
16-35VR
85/1.8G
50/1.8G
200-500/5.6

I had a 70-200/2.8 VR II and sold it just before the FL was announced, but I'm waiting for a sale because it's ridiculously expensive in Canada.

I also use a V1 for SCUBA photography and I have a Coolpix A, which I was going to trade for a DL that never materialized. The Fuji X100F checks all the boxes as a replacement but it's grossly overpriced at $1700 in Canada, so I will keep waiting. I'll be buying whatever replaces the D810 in the coming months, for hopefully not too ridiculous of a price.



Mar 29, 2017 at 02:37 PM
CanadaMark
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · have we reached the plateau ??


chez wrote:
Are you saying that your OVF has perfect DR everywhere...even in dim light. I find it very hard to use an OVF in dim light as its just too dim....not even looking at the extremely limited DR in the dim light.


I am saying the OVF has the DR of a human eye - EVFs look so bad in high contrast scenes it's almost comical. I find them bordering on unusable in those situations, and the same in low light when it turns into a blob of color noise. I've never been in dim enough light where I couldn't easily see with my eyes, but my camera could still AF, so that is a moot point for me.



Mar 29, 2017 at 02:41 PM
savingspaces
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · have we reached the plateau ??


chez wrote:
Are you saying that your OVF has perfect DR everywhere...even in dim light. I find it very hard to use an OVF in dim light as its just too dim....not even looking at the extremely limited DR in the dim light.


There are those who can and there are those who just complain.



Mar 29, 2017 at 02:45 PM
arbitrage
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · have we reached the plateau ??




brian_sp wrote:
really
you are actually going to sit here comparing your 1dx2 with expensive glass to the D500 with the 200-500



Well I'm comparing against 100-400II with 1.4TC on. So letting the Nikon have an extra stop of light to focus with. I clarified this to Mark already. But if the D500 isn't as consistent as the Canon combo then it isn't miles ahead as Mark stated. If I put expensive glass on the 1DX2 then maybe it isn't as fair so I never compare that sort of combo with the Nikon. Anyways next week I have 10 days with the Nikon 300/2.8 and access to a D5. So I will then be able to say for sure if the fastest Nikon glass on the two best bodies is worse,equal or better than f/4 super glass (400DOII and 600/4) on the Canon bodies (1DXII and 5DIV).

And if you've shot both and come to a different conclusion then that doesn't bother me. I'm testing for myself to decide what works best. Right now I still have use for my portable Nikon combo and use for my portable and not so portable Canon combos.

My only point I was making was in my 8 months with this gear I've found the 1DXII AF even with an f/8 lens /TC combo to be more consistent in the type of shooting I do. So I personally don't believe the D500 system is as good as Mark claimed in his post. I think they are both really, really good systems but I have a different overall impression of them. And as far as I know I'm the only one posting on here that has used both for many many months.



Mar 29, 2017 at 02:47 PM
chez
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · have we reached the plateau ??


arbitrage wrote:
And as far as I know I'm the only one posting on here that has used both for many many months.


Yep, hands on experience with both systems being discussed goes a long ways in my books.



Mar 29, 2017 at 03:12 PM
Joseph.
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · have we reached the plateau ??


You've reached the plateau when you're reading this instead of shooting outside


Mar 29, 2017 at 08:17 PM
ohsnaphappy
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · have we reached the plateau ??


Given enough time, photographers realize new gear won't drastically impact their work. At that point, innovation feels stagnant.


Mar 30, 2017 at 02:15 AM
Max Power
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · have we reached the plateau ??


Joseph. wrote:
You've reached the plateau when you're reading this instead of shooting outside


Not really.



Mar 30, 2017 at 08:04 AM
Oscarsmadness
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · have we reached the plateau ??


Next big thing will likely have to do with augmented/virtual reality. The tech to display that stuff is already available to well-off consumers. 8K video is not quite here yet, even though I have already heard of photogs pulling stills from 4K (or 6K not sure) RED rigs.

In the case of conventional stills, those smartphones are just gonna get better and better



Mar 30, 2017 at 10:48 AM
Joseph.
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · have we reached the plateau ??


Max Power wrote:
Not really.


guilty much?




Mar 31, 2017 at 12:01 PM
bozziovai
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · have we reached the plateau ??


Joseph. wrote:
You've reached the plateau when you're reading this instead of shooting outside


it's sad that some people are trying to be a smart-arse.


you've read this thread, then aren't you also referring to yourself when you said those words ??



Mar 31, 2017 at 02:05 PM
rw11
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · have we reached the plateau ??


No.

The plateau is set by physical limits on imaging devices, whether electronic, film or the retinas of animals.

This researcher from Bell labs wrote an xlnt book on the topic:
http://www.springer.com/us/book/9781468420395


Moreover, those "limits" can be cheated by various processing techniques in real-time or in post.

Variable sensitivity "ISO" at the pixel level might be the next big thing in sensors.



Mar 31, 2017 at 02:11 PM
Max Power
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · have we reached the plateau ??


Joseph. wrote:
guilty much?



Guilty of what? Reading your glib one liners on my iPad in bed before lights out? Should I throw on a shirt and go take pictures of things? Could I burst through my plateau that way?



Mar 31, 2017 at 11:17 PM
morrismike
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · have we reached the plateau ??


Joseph. wrote:
Nope. Wifi integration, GPS that actually work, more resolution, better DR... there's plenty of work to do.



GPS and a compass bearing to indicate which direction you are shooting would be great for me.



Apr 01, 2017 at 12:43 PM
EB-1
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · have we reached the plateau ??


bozziovai wrote:
having witnessed the evolution of cameras from film to digital.

..... fast forward to today ......if we look at all the major manufacturers, all they can do now are just incremental upgrades in all the areas, just like what fuji did with their xt1-to-xt2. on canon side, they gave their 1dxm2 and 5dm4 some 4k video and touch screen as the major changes. sony with their a99ii, a high mega pixel speed demon with their in-body stabilization. nikon introduced their new focusing system and blew everyone's head off, in a good way.

can we say that we have already reached the
...Show more

No, of course not. A key issue is still the shrinking interchangeable lens camera market and how much R&D money the Nikons and Canons, etc. will spend. Enough of the technology has other applications that I forsee many further advances in the next decade. How they impact individual use is another matter. For example, newer and better lenses are more important to me than fractional DR advances and fancy wireless functionality, but YMMV.

EBH



Apr 01, 2017 at 06:28 PM
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