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Archive 2017 · Editing machine

  
 
htran1980
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Editing machine


Can anyone share what you editing with? PC, iMac, or Macbook? Your machine setup and do you use wacom tablet? A picture of the command center would be great


Mar 27, 2017 at 02:40 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Editing machine


I assume from your question that you are in the market for a new computer. What is your budget, and what programs do you most often use? With that info we can easily piece together what would objectively be the best editing rig for the money currently, rather than see what other people have which doesn't tell us much


Mar 27, 2017 at 03:37 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Editing machine


Worth having a look through the thread(s) that Ben ran a few months back discussing similar:

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1467604/0



Mar 27, 2017 at 03:55 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Editing machine


^^ Some stuff that build has will be 2 full generations old in a few months Crazy how fast the industry moves.


Mar 27, 2017 at 04:23 PM
htran1980
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Editing machine


With the new AMD Ryzen processor out, I'm thinking of building a rig for video/photo editing and VMs. Budget try to keep around 1200-1500.


Mar 27, 2017 at 05:04 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Editing machine


Obviously these are tweakable both from a performance and price perspective, but just to get you started:

If you want Ryzen, this would be a lot of a PC for the money:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/zMW9Ps

With a few clicks you will be running at 3.8-4.0 Ghz as well, so no need to buy the 1800X. If anything you do is multi-threaded Ryzen is an absolute monster for the price.

If you want Intel:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/6FDwFd

If you do go Intel, I'd wait a few months for Coffee lake just so you can buy in at the start of a cycle.

Both would be fairly quiet builds as well.

I'm also assuming you have existing peripherals that will carry over, as well as traditional HDDs for backups you can move over from your current system.

If you need cores/threads for some of your work, probably more the video side, the Ryzen is a no-brainer.



Mar 27, 2017 at 05:21 PM
Tony Ross
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Editing machine


I have used a PC, then a Mac Pro, then a PC.

For the PCs (which I assemble myself) I always use an Intel E series chip, because they have quad channel RAM, meaning twice the RAM bandwidth using the same speed RAM. They tend to have more cores, too. And they usually have room for 8 DIMMs, which means 64GB with 8GB DIMMs. I'm only using one bank of 4 x 8GB DIMMs in my current box, which means the RAM runs slightly faster that when it's fully populated.

I typically use a Noctua over-sized cooler (the D14 or D15 is good) - they can run quietly at less that full fan speed and still keep the chip cool.

FWIW



Mar 27, 2017 at 06:47 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Editing machine


Before jumping onto the Ryzen bandwagon you should probably look at these:

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Lightroom-CC-2015-8-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X-Performance-910/

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X-Performance-909/

Ryzen is a very impressive re-entry by AMD into the performance CPU market, but isn't necessarily the best choice for workloads that don't scale well with multiple cores. For a lot of folks a quad i7 would be faster.



Mar 28, 2017 at 01:46 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Editing machine


The Puget Systems review has a HUGE flaw in that they did it before Windows fixes the scheduler issue with the CCX, and before any mobo manufacturer had a proper BIOS out. What happens is Ryzen behaves like two quad-core processors. Each group of 4 cores shares a cache. Intel does not work this way, which is what most things were previously written for. So what happens is when the windows scheduler moves processes around on the threads, it goes looking for cache that doesn't exist because it's left in the other cache segment. The latest Windows update has largely fixed this, but there's still some optimization to be done. They also did it before all the mobo companies released proper BIOSes, which has also made a large difference in performance. Basically, they need to fully re-do the test when the dust settles. I actually emailed them and brought these things to their attention, and they said they have plans to re-do the review in a few months for these exact reasons.

I've actually been testing a Ryzen 1800X @ 4.0Ghz vs a i7 3770K OC'd to 4.5Ghz for various Photoshop processes/actions and so far the Ryzen has been fastest overall. It's slightly slower or the same for some processes, and enormously faster for others, so the net change is in the Ryzen's favor so far.



Mar 28, 2017 at 10:01 AM
15Bit
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Editing machine


I'm not sure i'd call it a huge flaw, as that implies they made a mistake, which they didn't. It remains to be seen how "huge" the improvements will be from the scheduler updates too. I personally doubt they will change the result of those tests much, as Ryzen is slower than i7 on a clock by clock basis and Adobe's software generally doesn't scale all that well with count.


Mar 28, 2017 at 01:09 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Editing machine


15Bit wrote:
I'm not sure i'd call it a huge flaw, as that implies they made a mistake, which they didn't. It remains to be seen how "huge" the improvements will be from the scheduler updates too. I personally doubt they will change the result of those tests much, as Ryzen is slower than i7 on a clock by clock basis and Adobe's software generally doesn't scale all that well with count.


I would call not being familiar with the products and platforms they are reviewing a mistake, especially with no caveats written about it, but I also understand that everyone wants their reviews out ASAP for web traffic. It appears to work properly in Windows 7, and gains were up to 25% depending on the test (various games and benchmarks). Similar gains were seen after the newest Windows 10 patches. There are growing pains because for the last decade or so, all anyone cared about was making sure their software worked for Intel. Once Windows does their patching, BIOS's mature, etc. everything will settle down. It's already vastly better than a month ago. I've been pouring through 200-400 page technical forums on Ryzen for the last month, and it's very clear that pretty much everyone needs to re-do their reviews (and many have said they will). I think AMD should have waited one more month to launch as well, for a little more platform maturity.

Also, depending on the benchmark being run, Ryzen is in line with Kaby lake for some single threaded things, and slightly slower at others. It's quite remarkable given that it has double the cores/threads. On top of that an 8c/16t Ryzen uses less power than a quad core i7 7700K, which may not matter too much to the average user but it's huge for data center business, especially since they have a 12c/24t CPU on the way along with their Naples line.

Mostly I'm just happy AMD has stirred up the industry so much. It will mean better CPUs from all brands. The OP still hasn't mentioned what software he uses and what specific processes he runs, but he mentioned video editing which could indeed be very well served by one of the new Ryzen CPUs. If not then, I'd wait for Coffee Lake and see what it brings as that will be available in a 6c/12t version.



Mar 28, 2017 at 02:41 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Editing machine


It is certainly true that the platform is still immature, and i don't doubt there are some improvements to come as bios's mature and compilers get Ryzen optimisations.

I admit i haven't seen any retests showing the sort of improvement you mention, but i am keeping my eye on things as i will probably in the market for PC upgrade late this year. Ryzen is certainly a compelling option, and being a former Athlon and (dual) Opteron owner i am not averse to hopping off the Intel train.



Mar 28, 2017 at 04:29 PM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Editing machine


I'm in the same boat as you, 15bit. Trying to decide between Ryzen and Intel, but I will probably wait until August when I can also evaluate Coffee Lake 6c/12t and Skylake-X 6 and 8 core options. If they are priced like current Intel's though, I am going Ryzen. The other nice thing about Ryzen is that the AM4 socket is guaranteed to be used for the next 3 generations, so you can upgrade your CPU and not the mobo or anything else until 2020. If Ryzen 2 or 3 have big gains, you can just replace the CPU. Motherboards are way cheaper too.

My last AMD product was an Athalon as well. It was nice when Intel had some competition, and I'm glad they do again.



Mar 28, 2017 at 05:01 PM
Greg Campbell
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Editing machine


While Ryzen single thread performance is still slightly weaker than the i7 series chips, the chip will smash!, Hulk style, those filters and programs that are properly multithreaded. Ryzen vs. I7? I'd call it a push or slight advantage to AMD, depending on your specific programs, plug-ins, filters, etc.

IMO, I'd wait a little longer for the motherboard, bios, memory, drivers, etc. to stabilize before buying.




Mar 30, 2017 at 09:41 PM
Dustin Gent
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Editing machine


i have a mid 2015 MBP ($2500 model) and use a 27" IPS monitor. I also use a Wacom Intuos Pro Medium. This computer does well with Sony A7r files thus far


Mar 31, 2017 at 12:50 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Editing machine


Greg Campbell wrote:
While Ryzen single thread performance is still slightly weaker than the i7 series chips, the chip will smash!, Hulk style, those filters and programs that are properly multithreaded. Ryzen vs. I7? I'd call it a push or slight advantage to AMD, depending on your specific programs, plug-ins, filters, etc.

IMO, I'd wait a little longer for the motherboard, bios, memory, drivers, etc. to stabilize before buying.



They are pretty well there already - it was a much bigger problem the week or two after release when EVERYONE did their reviews. You can already run 3200 Mhz CAS 14 RAM (RAM compatibility was an issue at launch), the CCX issue with W10 scheduler has been mitigated but not completely resolved, and the mobo manufactures are doing an awesome job, even being very active on forums answering questions and providing people new BIOSes. GSKILL has released FLARE-X RAM which is all Samsung B dies and is tested to work with Ryzen (any Samsung B dies will work well). Ryzen scales unusually well with faster RAM as well, much better than Intel. Drivers were never really a problem. Things are getting more multi-threaded by the day, including games. Adobe has apparently said they will be making big strides toward multi-threaded gains in the future as well. I definitely wouldn't buy another quad core, for my usage anyway. Safe, stable, overclocking is as easy as a few clicks.

Ryzen is beating Kaby lake single thread in certain benchmarks, and the 1800X is beating the 6950K (10c/20t) in some multithreaded tests. For a first crack at a 'competitive' chip, they did one hell of a job. I look forward to Ryzen 2 and 3, and you won't even have to buy a new mobo. The best part is you can buy a Ryzen 1700 and OC it to 1800X speeds in a few clicks, because the 1700 happens to be a binned chip.

The big question is what will Intel do with Skylake-X pricing and Coffee Lake (6c/12t) pricing. I'm not sure they can sustain a 2-3X premium but the market will decide.



Mar 31, 2017 at 09:47 AM
ZhanMing12
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Editing machine


For even the most intense photo editing, a 1800x or 6950x is a huge amount of overkill. It does depend on software, but the Adobe family doesn't play well with many cores past 4-6 (My workstation has 16 and on Photoshop only 4-5 get substantial workloads at any time.

Video loads do play somewhat better with large core counts, but even there returns aren't huge. My suggestion would be to find a used 5930K or even something from the X79 days, which will give you good price/dollar without the early adopter kinks of Ryzen.

I see a Ryzen build myself in the future, but only after they've worked out some of the current issues.



Mar 31, 2017 at 10:12 AM
CanadaMark
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Editing machine


Importing/Exporting/Saving, and HDR merging are just some examples of processes than can use all 16 threads at 100% currently. I have confirmed this on an 1800X test rig, and those processes were predictably roughly twice as fast as the quad core rig. If you can still get great performance out of it for single or less threaded tasks, it's a big net win as far as time saving goes.

The kinks are basically out, addressed in my previous post, but there is still a bit of optimization left to be done that likely won't affect most users in a material way. I love that Intel no longer has a monopoly, it will benefit everyone regardless of your CPU brand choice.



Mar 31, 2017 at 12:26 PM
15Bit
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Editing machine


CanadaMark wrote:
I love that Intel no longer has a monopoly, it will benefit everyone regardless of your CPU brand choice.


This is probably the most important part of the Ryzen release. Whether you are best served by a quad core Intel or a octa core AMD, everyone is better served by such a large industry having viable competition. I would caution that we don't get too excited though - AMD is a minnow in comparison to Intel, and remaining genuinely competitive into the future will be expensive. I hope Ryzen signals a long purple patch for AMD, but i remember how fast the glory days of Athlon and Opteron passed by when the Core architecture was released.

I will be waiting to see how Ryzen matures before buying. In particular, platform stability and ancilliary functionality. I remember how my Athlon and Opterons were much faster than the P4's of the time, but they never really entered and left reduced power states properly, and things like USB and such were never quite as good. I'm not in a hurry to buy right now, so i can be patient.



Mar 31, 2017 at 01:07 PM
clonardo
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Editing machine


In my experience, fast I/O (a single NVMe SSD, like a Samsung 960 or Intel 750) is probably the most important piece. I've had great experiences with closed-loop water cooling systems from Corsair- they're nice and quiet, remarkably easy to install, and generally rock. Corsair's power supplies are excellent as well, and Newegg has them on sale pretty frequently.

For a business I ran, and myself personally, I've bought probably 30 engineering sample Xeon E5's over the years. Basically, Intel ships a bunch of near-production CPUs to enterprise partners for validation before a launch, and they find their way onto eBay shortly thereafter. Obviously there's no warranty (when was the last time you had a CPU replaced under warranty anyway?), but you can save a tremendous amount of money- I had a quad Xeon E5-4650 server a few years ago, when those CPUs were $6,000 each at retail. I bought 4 matched engineering sample chips at $450/each, and they were completely, irrevocably rock-solid in the time that I had them. Search on eBay for "Xeon E5 ES," maybe do a little Google search to make sure you're not getting a super-early revision of the chip in question, and you can score some great bargains.

In my editing rig now, I am running an engineering sample E5-2687W v3, which is a 10-core workstation chip that retailed for $2200 when I bought it. I paid $350, and it's a total beast, and completely stable.

As for the parts you look at/feel- I'll just say that the Logitech MX Master mouse changed my life. Also, BenQ has some well-specified pro-grade monitors for professionals that are quite inexpensive. If you're not doing so already, color management with something like a DataColor Spyder5 or X-Rite Color is definitely money well-spent.

As for a beefy CPU being overkill for photography, I heartily disagree. I had a shoot on Monday that left me with 1,200 22mp RAW files to deal with. I was going to import them in Lightroom on my Ultrabook, but gave up after 2 hours at 20% completion (building 100% previews on import, hence the CPU usage- which was at 100% the whole time, with my laptop's fan going full-blast). On my desktop, it was done in something like an hour.



Apr 05, 2017 at 11:14 PM
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