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C-LOG coming to 5DIV?
  
 
Eric Mastilak
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


http://www.canonrumors.com/c-log-coming-to-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv/


Mar 20, 2017 at 10:14 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Eric Mastilak wrote:
http://www.canonrumors.com/c-log-coming-to-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv/


Okay, but what they really need to do is take a full sensor readout and use a proper compression format....throwing c-log in isn't going to make anyone start using this thing for 4K video anytime soon.



Mar 20, 2017 at 11:21 PM
Eric Mastilak
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Sorry for the dumb question, will using C-LOG fix the 4gb a minute for 4K problem? I am not a video guy.


Mar 21, 2017 at 01:07 AM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Short answer no.

C-log is a type of 'log' picture profile (C stands for Canon with its proprietary info), log is used to grab more dynamic range in a video, nothing to do with file sizes. Yes some moron on this forum will argue that you need 10bit color space (aka higher bit/rate file size) but that is not true. I don't want to spend too much time explaining log compared to file size as there is no correlation.

What's important for file size is the compression, lets call it codec for now. So 5D IV uses M-jpeg codec which is Intra-frame compression, most other cameras use interframe compression (ie. Long GOP type like AVCH, H.264, X-AVCs). The former takes a series of pictures and compresses them where as the interframe is analyzing each frame and compressing and retaining what pixels changed <--this is severely dumbed down/water down explanation.
http://wolfcrow.com/blog/intra-frame-vs-inter-frame-compression/

I've heard that C-Log and interframe compression (H.264 or its like) is what will kill Canon's Cinema series professional video gear so I seriously doubt the log or proper codec will be introduced in its DSLR line up. Specially when 1Dx II doesn't have these benefits either. In my humble opinion, the Digic6+ processor can handle the task, if my iPhone 6s can do 4K 30fps with H.264 I dont see how $3500 camera's processor can't.



Mar 21, 2017 at 03:23 AM
Isaacheus
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


ahmedumair wrote:
Short answer no.

C-log is a type of 'log' picture profile (C stands for Canon with its proprietary info), log is used to grab more dynamic range in a video, nothing to do with file sizes. Yes some moron on this forum will argue that you need 10bit color space (aka higher bit/rate file size) but that is not true. I don't want to spend too much time explaining log compared to file size as there is no correlation.

What's important for file size is the compression, lets call it codec for now. So 5D IV uses M-jpeg codec which is
...Show more

Don't do much video but curious as to why getting a better codec would kill the Cinema series? If that's the main differential, how can the Cinema ones be so much more expensive?



Mar 21, 2017 at 05:52 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


ahmedumair wrote:
Short answer no.

C-log is a type of 'log' picture profile (C stands for Canon with its proprietary info), log is used to grab more dynamic range in a video, nothing to do with file sizes. Yes some moron on this forum will argue that you need 10bit color space (aka higher bit/rate file size) but that is not true. I don't want to spend too much time explaining log compared to file size as there is no correlation.

What's important for file size is the compression, lets call it codec for now. So 5D IV uses M-jpeg codec which is
...Show more

I thought that the whole point of using an intra-frame codec like M-jpeg was to allow for better frame grabs, which are more appropriate to the intended use of the high grade Canon DSLRs.

EBH



Mar 21, 2017 at 08:40 AM
WarrenL
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


My understanding for mjpeg is due to heat dissipation in a sealed camera body. Most higher end cameras have a fan for getting rid of the heat.


Mar 21, 2017 at 11:18 AM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Codec is not the only reason to go to cinema series. The cinema series from the ground up are designed with video production in mind. You have to think of all the things that you need to have a 'video production' and the features in cinema series support that. small example (XLR audio, inputs, ability to send signal to external recorders, timecode sync etc etc).

Codec plays small role in video production, here are the two main areas codec is important - 1) Editing and software 2) storage space. Both 1 & 2 will be a challenge if you work off of a 7 year old PC/Mac and you do not want to upgrade any hard drive space.

No giving away a better codec in DSLR will not cannibalize the cinema series. However, It will sway low budget video productions to consider a DSLR as it has dual purpose (stills/video). Although the external out on HDMI on 5D IV with 1080p is NOT lucrative to many videographers as there are so many other alternative brands that offer this functionality (Panasonic/Sony).



Mar 21, 2017 at 01:57 PM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Its a marketing ploy to push a codec that very outdated.
The stills are Jpeg and 8.8 megapixel (not sure the mp size on still), I'm assuming since 4K video requires 8.8 mp the down resolution from the sensor for video would need to be 8.8mp and still would be the same.



Mar 21, 2017 at 02:04 PM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Yes, the heat dissipation can be an issue for a chip that is passively cooled (no fans) and you let the chip process compression codecs like H.264 or its variant.

However, I would present that there are Engineering solutions to this problem that Canon could have used to make 5D IV somewhat lucrative to video crowd.

Canon could have limit the video length if you chose to use a (H.264) codec that is not M-Jpeg. Instead of 29:59, you can have it record 14:59 (example), so that the chip can get a break.




Mar 21, 2017 at 02:12 PM
 

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stanj
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


arbitrage wrote:
Okay, but what they really need to do is take a full sensor readout and use a proper compression format....throwing c-log in isn't going to make anyone start using this thing for 4K video anytime soon.


Those are orthogonal problems. Using C-Log will address other problems than file size. Using the full sensor would require downsampling of pixels and likely isn't possible without giving the camera bigger brains.

As someone who shoots video semi-commercially now, I can assure you that C-Log would help me even with all other things being equal.



Mar 21, 2017 at 04:20 PM
molson
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


stanj wrote:
Those are orthogonal problems. Using C-Log will address other problems than file size. Using the full sensor would require downsampling of pixels and likely isn't possible without giving the camera bigger brains.

As someone who shoots video semi-commercially now, I can assure you that C-Log would help me even with all other things being equal.


That's one of the reasons I bought a 1DC instead of a 1DX or 1DX II.



Mar 21, 2017 at 06:39 PM
Tom_W
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


My crude understanding of C-Log is that it applies to video only. Is there also a benefit to stills also?


Mar 21, 2017 at 07:13 PM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


Log is for Video. Raw is not Log and Log is not RAW.

For stills we have RAW image + you can bracketing to get HDR.




Mar 21, 2017 at 07:38 PM
wallstreetonei
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


C-Log / S-Log + 10 bit is really what you want if you are seriously into Video so that you can truly get shadow detail out of underexposed areas. If you don't have C-Log + 10 bit, but you have C-Log + 8 bit, and you expose a scene how someone who has C-Log + 10 bit exposes the scene, you will not be happy with recovering Shadow Detail - it will be very sub optimal.

Yes C-Log + 8 bit would seem like a good idea, but if you really, really research how Canon Cameras, and their DR, deal with the typical Log type exposures for later processing, you will find that where the rubber meets the road is where it 'sort of' falls apart - i.e. it is far, far more critical with 8-bit to truly expose for the subject (i.e. not as much underexposing typically as is used with 10bit) so that you have captured good colours on the main subject and you don't try and capture the very last details in the highest exposed areas.

I'm not saying C-log + 8-bit is a bad idea - it isn't. It is just that it is not a be all saviour of wide DR scenes. With a typical Canon DR Camera, it is 'almost' as good to use a Neutral type Picture Profile and use proper exposure on your main subject and then in Post tweak the colours how you like them - instead of trying to recover all the underexposed parts of the scene that you really care about.

Edited on Mar 22, 2017 at 01:39 PM · View previous versions



Mar 21, 2017 at 10:03 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


So let me see, Canon is going to offer the 5DIV but not the 1DXII this much requested feature! Seriously doubt that unless they have something huge in development for 1DXII and it will ship as part of that.

To fix the heavy crop issue for 4K they could easily address that by using supersampling say 1.5x, this way they could capture a 19.8MP area of 6144 x 3240. The crop factor would then be ~ 1.27 rather than about 1.6.

Also offer a UHD mode using a lower bit rate codec, say 200-250MB/s.



Mar 22, 2017 at 05:17 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


ahmedumair wrote
I've heard that C-Log and interframe compression (H.264 or its like) is what will kill Canon's Cinema series professional video gear so I seriously doubt the log or proper codec will be introduced in its DSLR line up. Specially when 1Dx II doesn't have these benefits either.


Well it is official, Canon is offering this to the 5D4.... So the first in the Canon DSLR line then. Perhaps future updates to the 1DX2 as well?



Mar 22, 2017 at 12:53 PM
ahmedumair
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


"Well it is official, Canon is offering this to the 5D4..."

link?



Mar 22, 2017 at 01:43 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


TeamSpeed wrote:
Well it is official, Canon is offering this to the 5D4.... So the first in the Canon DSLR line then. Perhaps future updates to the 1DX2 as well?


Where is it official? A CR new story with CR3 isn't considered official in my book.



Mar 22, 2017 at 02:04 PM
Max_Pain
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · C-LOG coming to 5DIV?


As someone who doesn't do video commercially, I'm much more interested in getting a better codec and smaller file size. As of right now, I don't think I will use the 5DIV for video any longer until that happens. The Fuji seems to have done a great job at 4K 30FPS, and it's not the huge file sizes of the 5DIV.


Mar 22, 2017 at 02:22 PM
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