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Lowballing clients
  
 
dhp_sf
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p.5 #1 · p.5 #1 · Lowballing clients


Mark_L wrote:
Work in engineering. I'd love to hear more and see if what I suspect is correct!

Worst vocations from my pov: doctors and lawyers



Dude! Some of my best clients are doctors and lawyers! And dentists!



Mar 24, 2017 at 09:12 PM
LeeSimms
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p.5 #2 · p.5 #2 · Lowballing clients


Lawyers I would toe into 'more desirable', doctors are right in the middle.

As for engineers, I often get a sense they really don't want to be there. Would rather be alone in a room somewhere solving a problem that has a definitive right or wrong answer. Weddings are social rituals, filled with second by second compromise. Quite a contrast to a marketing professional whose whole livelyhood is based winning over hearts and minds, no matter the external variables. They are perfect for the chaos of a wedding. My experience, anyway.

Female nurses have to see people at their worst and in compromised situations, daily, and seem to not care about revealing themselves. As a male photographer, I've never had a female nurse take me up on the offer to leave the room for a 'modesty moment' at the exact moment the dress goes on. "I'm sure you've seen it all before" is the standard line.

Of course we don't discriminate. Anyone with that can pay the invoice is our client and we do the best we everyday. But I do have a radar on how days will go, based on vocation.



Mar 24, 2017 at 09:56 PM
Mark_L
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p.5 #3 · p.5 #3 · Lowballing clients


LeeSimms wrote:
As for engineers, I often get a sense they really don't want to be there. Would rather be alone in a room somewhere solving a problem that has a definitive right or wrong answer.


Pretty much my expectation of what you were going to say, ha ha. Having pictures taken of them is probably quite low on their list of fun things to do and photography is probably seen as almost a a necessary evil.



Mar 24, 2017 at 11:05 PM
 

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LeeSimms
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p.5 #4 · p.5 #4 · Lowballing clients


They're engineers fun never enters into it. Well, until you give them a camera. Then they'll have fun talking about corner sharpness and pixel peeping 'til the end of time.

To be clear, I didn't say they were bad clients. Just least desirable.



Mar 24, 2017 at 11:29 PM
glort
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p.5 #5 · p.5 #5 · Lowballing clients


ZachOly wrote:
If someone asks for a discount and you cave without offering less, you're pricing/quote was BS to begin with.

This is Business 101 stuff, guys.


Mate, I'm sorry, but your repeated and continued flawed statements trying to prove your equally flawed position on this is going from funny to sad.
Clearly, you have never studied nor paid any attention to gaining business knowledge and your opposition to well proven, logical and correct ways of handling basic customer objections proves that. To be blunt, It's more than obvious you wouldn't know business 101 If it bit you fair on the arse.

You are really saying I don't need to know anything about business because I have a business and manage to get by without having a clue about it. Unfortunately every thing you say proves the complete opposite.

I really don't understand why yourself and others have so much opposition to it?
All I have said is people should invest some of their time in learning basic business because it will help them and you seem to oppose that idea at every opportunity even though you clearly don't have the background knowledge to make a fair assessment of that position.
I'm guessing your day job has minimal to no contact with the public. Maybe you are a truck driver or a fitter-Machinist, work in a lab...??

If your above statement is as I interpret it and you are saying anyone that takes a lowball offer without reducing their offerings ( package) was over priced to begin with, once again you are dead wrong.

To do that would mean several things....
First, the shooter was lacking in confidence of their products worth. That's bad business knowledge and research. In this hypothetical which probably rings true for many, the odds on bet would be they priced themselves based on someone else's pricing model they copied because they had neither the Knowledge or resulting balls to figure out their own worth and stand by it.

Hmm, maybe you were right, maybe their pricing would be BS. But why would it be?
Only possible reason would be because the vendor was a twit that knew beans about Business and sales. -IF- said vendor purposefully over priced their work so they could do discounts, then obviously they DID have a clue what they were doing and how to sell so that would make the quote an effective and pre calculated sales strategy which is the polar opposite of BS.

Secondly, anyone that just took a lower offer without lessening their package or negotiating with the client would be a piss poor sales person also lacking in knowledge and skill.
No one that has an idea is going to be that easy to roll over unless they are uncertain of their product and pricing and the only such people like that are the business Dilettantes.

Your statement about Business 101 was laughable in the context you stated it but completely true in how inept and ignorant someone would have to be to do it. Sure as shit no one that had spent some time in sales would do that because they would know how to handle objections and negotiations a lot more professional and effectively.

I would LOVE to go work for some people here. I see their work which is fantastic. I see their pricing, I hear their moaning and whingeing about they are in an are where no one has money and the rest of the often repeated comments.
I think to myself how I'd love to go in and do their interviews for booking and sales and know that I could get them double the money and as much work as they wanted to do shooting and less in the post processing etc.

I know I could do it not because I'm some sales Genius, but because there is NO application of basic sales and principals being applied tot hat business now. If there were, then for so many the sky would be the limit.
And thats what I am trying to get across to people here. Not trying to sell anyone anything and certainly NOT to my benefit if people do listen, just trying to open some peoples eyes but there are always those whom seem to fight to remain blind.


Looking back over the comments and positions expressed here is interesting.
I wonder if anyone making those statements has ever sold a car privately?
If a potential buyer offered a lower amount, did those selling the vehicle get pussy and call them low ballers and trouble as they have here and didn't want to deal with them?
Did they think they were going to get people rolling up and NOT trying to negotiate?
Would they only sell the car to the people that offered them the price they wanted?

I have sold a few cars ( and my last 2 houses myself) and I can tell you that is NEVER going to happen unless again someone has not done their home work and did undervalue their vehicle. Even then I'd bet 90% of buyers would pick up the seller didn't have a clue and still offer a bit less not to give the game away too easy.

I went out this morning to see a house. Time I got there it was sold. Ask was 1.7M. They sold it for 1.57M. When the person made that offer, I'm pretty sure the agent and the owner didn't start whining and bitching about lowballing and not appreciating the home and the purchaser being trouble or they could go find somewhere else if they werent prepared to pony up without a word. I'm sure the agent and the owner discussed the offer and the agent went back and said to the person that made the offer, " Will you be paying the deposit by card or cheque?, please sign here."

It's these everyday , real world examples of what some are arguing and lambasting here that makes a mockery of their position. Then again, maybe these people that think anyone that wants to negotiate is trouble or not worth dealing with have a very exaggerated and unrealistic opinion of their own value in a very saturated and competitive market?




Mar 25, 2017 at 06:13 AM
TheyCallMeJ
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p.5 #6 · p.5 #6 · Lowballing clients


ZachOly wrote:
If someone asks for a discount and you cave without offering less, you're pricing/quote was BS to begin with.

This is Business 101 stuff, guys.



If I ask the dealership for a discount, am I getting a lesser car? It is the same car sitting on the lot, only thing changed is the price. Where is the BS?

Not too sure if I am the one not understanding, or you who refuse to understand the simple concept of negotiation. It is not about who "caves" or who is trying to BS, it is about reaching a middle ground where both parties agree and move forward in the deal.

From the small street vendor to the multi-billion merger and acquisitions, negotiations are part of everyday business. People sit around the table and talk price.

Comimg back to wedding photography, there are certain cultures and ethnic groups that are highly price sensitive, not because they can't afford your rate, but mainly because that's how they were brought up. In particular clients from South America and Asian countries, they won't hesitate in asking for a "deal", they aren't trying to be disrespectful.

Should you offer $5000, they will counter with $4000. If you offer $500, they will ask for $400. If you are ready to work for free, they will ask you to pay in order to shoot their wedding... To negotiate is wired inside their brain, as a way to protect themselves from scammers perhaps. You can say that these people aren't your clients and that's ok. Meanwhile, I embrace everyone who is reaching out for my services and should they feel the need to negotiate, I am ready to do so.



Mar 25, 2017 at 07:15 AM
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