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New IQ compact camera dilema
  
 
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Hello,

For years I used the infamous Nikon V1 as my small but ultra-fast zoom steet-shooting camera. I got along with it's all well known interface faults, for my use it didn't bother me much. I used it with 10fps electronic shutter at 1/500th sec. and just shoot away. I like how it was small, silent and fast.

The time arrived when I had to replace it, and I though on stepping the game up and bought the zoom compact camera that seems to have the best technical specs: the Panasonic LX100.

It has a fast versatile zoom lens, OIS, manual controls (like my beloved fujis) compact size, silent shutter, fast AF and shooting speed, EVF... everything seems perfect on paper, like a dream caera, but I just can't enjoy shooting with it, and I really tried for 3 months.

The main problem resides on the zoom operation. It's just so painfully slow, I don't feel confortable using it for street photography. The fact that I can't see wich FL I'm at without using the electronic dial is very annoying also. My rational side tells me this isn't so significant, but the truth is that I just can't connect with the camera because of this which affects my shooting experience more than I expected.

I got the opportunity to sell it without loosing too much money, so it's sold. So the question now is: what camera do I choose to replace it?

The main requisites are:
- small/compact;
- 1" sensor or higher;
- viewfinder
- good AF;
- versatile zoom (if it has a large aperture better)
- stabilization;
- silent shooting;

My two main contenders now are the Canon G5X and the Panasonic ZS100 / TZ100.

The G5X has mixed reports regarding the AF performance wich leaves me a bit uneasy. It also doesn't give much FPS (something I enjoyed with the Nikon 1 system).

The Panasonic doesn't have the fast aperture of the Canon but compensates this with extra reach. I also think I can live with f/2.8 as long as the OIS is effective.
The problem is I'm afraid of the Panasonic zoom operation being similar to the annoying LX100.

The Sony RX100 line is also an option, but I'm a bit concerned on with the small size being confortable to hold/use.

I could also return to the "dead-end" Nikon 1 system, the Nikon V3 is still to expensive and doesn't have a EVF (only as an attachable options which doesn't appeal to me and makes it more expensive). A second-hand V2 is another option although I find that camera ugly as hell Either lack a fast mid-zoom option.

So, based on all this information, what do you guys think?



Mar 14, 2017 at 04:32 PM
Vern Dewit
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · New IQ compact camera dilema


I've owned the Nikon V3 and really liked it - other than the IQ.

I am currently using a Canon M5 as my small system and it's surprisingly versatile. With an APS-C sized sensor and the ability to easily mount any Canon lenses (including small ones like the 40mm pancake or 50mm f/1.8) it's a much better choice than I originally thought. There is a tiny 22mm f/2 (35mm equiv) but the biggest drawback right now are the lack of native EOS-M lenses.

I've used three models of the Sony RX100 series and other than the IV or V models, the AF wasn't great. Obviously they're not as flexible as interchangeable systems either and good luck getting any usable bokeh without good PS skills. The Sony RX100 cameras are amazing tools but the fixed lens limits them a bit too much for me.

Another great option is the Panasonic GM5. There are some mighty tiny m43 lenses available and most of them are great optics. TONS of options for larger lenses too.



Mar 14, 2017 at 04:49 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Thanks for the input Vern Dewit

I already have APS-C cameras (Fuji's X-Pro2 and X100). What I'm searching is a small camera with a versatile zoom and speedy operation.

The silent shooting is very important to me laso, for this there are a lot of models with electronic shutters now, but most of them have rolling shutter issues which will be a problem since I tend to shoot a lot of moving subjects (even from moving cars when I go on trips). So the camera has to have a leaf shutter or a faster than average electronic shutter (like the ones on the Nikon 1 system).

A smaller sensor can actually be a plus for me because it means more DOF for street shooting at wider apertures.



Mar 14, 2017 at 04:56 PM
darrellc
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Nikon DL could have been the answer!


Mar 14, 2017 at 05:39 PM
flash
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Olympus EPL7 ??

Gordon



Mar 14, 2017 at 07:25 PM
rstoddard11
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · New IQ compact camera dilema


I'm in the same boat. I'm looking for something better than my smart phone for travel that I can fit in my pocket when I want to leave my DSLR in my backpack stowed away, either to be inconspicuous on to just have freedom of movement and just snap a few shots here an there.

Currently looking at the Canon G9X, just price dropped to $399 which is attractive as I do not want to put much money into this camera. Second option is the Sony RX100 which is priced a bit higher. The canon G7x or other models are priced too high for what I want this to be.

I want something to put in my front pants pocket and that can replace my Canon S100 and do just about the same thing, but a little better. My S100 has bad sensor marks on it that show up as huge blobs in images now, but I was happy with that camera as a backup for years.



Mar 14, 2017 at 07:29 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · New IQ compact camera dilema


darrellc - Indeed. When I saw the announcement of the DL line my heart skipped a beat. When I noticed the medium-zoom model didn't have a EVF the disapointment came in. Was still hoping for a attachable EVF, but now that the DL line is canceled I just have to forget it.


rstoddard11 - Although it's not the camera I'm currently looking for, that G9X is really tiny and with interesting specs. I'm using a little Panasonic LF1 as my "sports camera" (mostly to carry it in the hand while jogguing). When the LF1 dies I can see myself getting a G9X as a substitute (and upgrade).



Mar 14, 2017 at 11:07 PM
Joseph Garcin
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · New IQ compact camera dilema


I just traded a X100 for a RX1004.

My goal was to use the RX1004 mainly for video, but it has wildly surpassed my expectations as a stills camera.

It is almost silent with its mechanical shutter, so much so that the electronic shutter really isn't necessary, focuses fast, and you can set the control dial to zoom fast or in steps from 24-35-50-70.

Negatives: expensive, fiddly at times, battery life, short zoom range.

Hidden Pros: Playmemory apps are a blast! The timelapse on a little camera like this is awesome fun! I have never had trouble getting enough bokeh either, but I tend not to rely on bokeh so much anymore.

To be honest, I have only touched the Panasonic in the store, so I can't compare. I had a Canon G9X for about 6 weeks, and the Sony has been better for me, mainly because of video quality and, strangely for a Sony camera to me, shooting experience.



Mar 14, 2017 at 11:31 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Thanks Joseph Garcin, a RX100 Mk4 is on my list. I didn't follow the RX100 evolution line but from a quick read it seems the Mk4 was a big step foward regarding operation speed.

After investigating a bit more, I think I will drop one of the main contenders: the Canon G5X. As much as I like the look of it and the feel of it's controls (managed to handle one in a store, sadly without a battery), it seems like the camera is crippled in termos of speed.

So, right now the contenders are:

- Panasonic ZS100 / TZ100 - continues to look like a good option, I will have to go to a store to try to handle one with a battery on to see if the operation quirks I've found on the LX100 have been resolved on this newer model.

- Sony RX100 Mk4 - A bit small for my taste, maybe manageable with an add-on grip? Have to test how well/fast it's operation is. The fact that it's a refined line of cameras gives some reassurance. I'm not sure if I will like the pop-up EVF, is it possible to have it always up, even with the camera off?

- Nikon V2 - In case of despair, I will return to the Nikon 1 system. It's a familiar terrain and I know they perform good. Too bad for the slow zoom lenses, but at least they have manual operation wich means immediate zoom feedback and no problems with dirt being suck inside the camera due to the zoom motor.



Mar 15, 2017 at 12:10 AM
 

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rw11
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · New IQ compact camera dilema


The Sony RX100 Mk 3, 4, or 5 versions are all outstanding "big pocket" attached lens cameras.

for an ILC, I like the Panasonic Lumix GX85 (or the newer, larger bodies)... or maybe the kit lens on the GM5 (or newer body) for an m43 kit that is just a tad thicker than the RX100's but more versatile.

A friend has replaced 80% of his shooting with the Lumix system -- and he uses dual D800s with about 5 or 6 lenses. So...
He had a full Nikon One system - 2 bodies, several lenses, yada yada but that entire system appears dead (despite its focus & speed abilities).

I luckily avoided the Nikon One fail, and find no real reason to use Nikon DX when I can use the GX85. I will keep a Nikon FF body in my quiver for big landscape blowups with low noise, and high DR.



Mar 15, 2017 at 12:33 AM
tzhang4284
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · New IQ compact camera dilema


For those that owned a rx100 m1, is there a noticeable image quality improvement to moving to a later model rx100 m3-m5 for stills photography? What about to the panasonic lx10?


Mar 16, 2017 at 04:47 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · New IQ compact camera dilema


tzhang4284 wrote:
For those that owned a rx100 m1, is there a noticeable image quality improvement to moving to a later model rx100 m3-m5 for stills photography? What about to the panasonic lx10?


According to Dxo, the there have been some minor improvements, more noticeably regarding ISO performance (I would say it's the same sensor with better processing).


As an update, I bought the Panasonic LS100 / TZ100. Didn't managed to handle one (not available in the physical stores near me), but managed to evaluate it's operation speed on youtube videos, it looks like it's much better than the LX100.

Was a bit worried about some reports of lens softness, but donwloaded some RAW samples and they look good to me (even the ones from DPreview who also reports this "issue"). It's true that the extreme corners are a bit soft but nothing dramatic, and I think there may be some aggressive AA filter on the sensor which causes this soft effect when compared to other sensors with weaker AA. A quick Nik Sharpener Pro on the files brought them back to ultra-crisp detail.




Mar 16, 2017 at 05:04 PM
tzhang4284
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · New IQ compact camera dilema


I think the sensor performance difference is minimal across all these cameras since Sony makes pretty much all the 1in sensors out there - more interested in lens to lens variation across the similar 24-70 / 24-100ish zoom range.

I like the ZS100 but I think the low light performance in a RX100/LX10/LX100/G7X would be more important to me than the zoom range since I have a Sony A7R II that I can always mount a long lens to. Let us know how you like it once you have a chance to try it out.



Mar 16, 2017 at 05:33 PM
rstoddard11
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · New IQ compact camera dilema


The newest RX100 III I think has a larger aperature at 100mm, I think 2.8, vs. 4.9 on the old model.


Mar 16, 2017 at 05:38 PM
tzhang4284
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Newest RX100 has a 24-70mm f1.8-2.8 and the old one was 28-100 f1.8 to f4.9. Personally the prior range works better for me but wouldn't mind the 24-70 if the IQ were better.

The LX10 is interesting because it's a 24 f1.4 starting point



Mar 16, 2017 at 08:08 PM
rw11
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · New IQ compact camera dilema


IQ is lots better


Mar 16, 2017 at 09:12 PM
Sr.Cordeiro
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · New IQ compact camera dilema


A Sony RX100 III or IV was in my sight, but the price is just to high (new) even if it's worth it for the specs.

Regarding the confusion between RX100 iterations, this article in Photographylife was useful for me:
https://photographylife.com/sony-rx100-series-comparison/

The rationale on choosing the Panasonic TZ100 was that I don't really need low-light capabilities on this camera, after all I was doing fine with a Nikon V1 and the kit zoom. For low-light I have better suited big-sensor cameras. My usual combo for trips and vacations was the Nikon V1 for versatility/operation speed in daylight and the Fuji X100 for low-light and better IQ. I think the Panasonic TZ100 will be a good new companion for my old Fuji X100.

The new camera may arrive tomorrow. Will post some feedback when I get some spare time.



Mar 16, 2017 at 10:48 PM
rstoddard11
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · New IQ compact camera dilema


Agree. For this sort of camera, even $448 for the RX100 1 is pushing it for me. Anything much higher than that and I could spend the money on a lens for my other system.

Leaning toward the RX100 now after seeing comparison shots with the G9X



Mar 16, 2017 at 10:58 PM







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