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Archive 2017 · Shutter speed - vs - IS

  
 
D.Hussey
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


I'm mostly shooting with the 100-400mm MkII (usually at 400mm) and I am wondering at what point shutter speed wise does IS become redundant and perhaps even detrimental.

Do any of you folks disable IS when light conditions are good enough to allow fast shutter speeds. Are there situations where IS could be negatively impacting image quality?



Mar 14, 2017 at 02:01 AM
Ming-Tzu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Others can chime in but my understanding is that IS is only a detriment when you have everything mounted on a tripod, because the IS vibration may result in unwanted shake. If you are hand holding, I would think that IS only helps SS as you will be able to lower it.


Mar 14, 2017 at 03:06 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


I've always thought it becomes useful around 1/60th and lower.

Here's a white paper:

http://www.slrgear.com/articles/is_1iswp/iswp.htm



Mar 14, 2017 at 03:12 AM
fplstudio
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


On long lenses above 200 I find the IS a great help also to stabilize the viewfinder. I would switch it off only for tripod works or switch to mode 2 when panning. Not sure what mode 3 would be used for

Francesco



Mar 14, 2017 at 04:29 AM
melcat
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


I do turn it off at high shutter speeds with this lens, on the assumption that it could introduce a delay in acquiring focus. Whether it really does, I haven't tested. I'm pretty sure the IS does use much more battery charge than the rest of the lens and camera put together. And, of course, it's a moving part which wears out.


Mar 14, 2017 at 05:45 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Arash rec to keep IS on with high shutter speeds as it stabilizes the view finder esp while hand holding.
I only turn it off for the rare Astro shot and during MFA adjustments.
Current generation canon teles are supposed to be tripod sending, hence no need to turn it off then.



Mar 14, 2017 at 05:56 AM
Ferrophot
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


I generally turn it off with shutter speeds over 1/1000th, and also when panning.


Mar 14, 2017 at 06:23 AM
schlotz
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


David, it depends on what, how and when you are shooting. AF acquisition is slightly slowed but if you are tracking prior to the shot it's a non-issue. Being able to keep a focal point on a moving target becomes more difficult at 400mm and IS can be a big help. If staying on target is not an issue then over 1/500 IMO it isn't required (remember the old standby, use shutter => 1/mm).

Matt



Mar 14, 2017 at 06:41 AM
Clicky94
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


IS is designed to minimize camera shake.
The minimum shutter speed you can use to eliminate shutter speed is dependent on the individual and also on the focal length of the the lens (i.e. the magnification of the image).

In the old 35mm film days it was always expressed relating to the focal length in that the minimum shutter speed for a 100mm lens was 1/100 and the minimum for a 400mm lens was 1/400. These days that figure would have to be adjusted by the crop factor of your camera if you are going to show the yor images at the same size as 35mm full frame shots.

So there you have it ... it depends on your camera holding abilities, the length of your lens and how much you enlarge your final images.



Mar 14, 2017 at 06:48 AM
jcolwell
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Ming-Tzu wrote:
Others can chime in but my understanding is that IS is only a detriment when you have everything mounted on a tripod, because the IS vibration may result in unwanted shake. If you are hand holding, I would think that IS only helps SS as you will be able to lower it.


Handheld panning with IS in Mode 1 is a definite detriment, too. It's not because of "vibration", it's because of how the IS system attempts to compensate for hand shake (or wind, or etc.). The IS system is designed to compensate for small, harmonic motions (i.e. back and forth). For example, the IS system compensates for lens movement a bit "to the left", by rotating the IS optical group a bit "to the right". When the motion to the left begins, the IS begins a small rotation to the right. This works well when the motions go a bit left, then a bit right (or a bit up, then a bit down), but this strategy fails if the motion to the left just keeps going (i.e. as when panning to the left). In this case, the IS optical group moves as far as it can to the right (which isn't all that far), and then it "hits the stops", and re-centres the optical group. This causes a glitch in the matrix (i.e. a visible shift in the finder), and does not provide good results if you press the shutter while it's happening.

IS Mode 1 attempts to stabilize in both horizontal and vertical directions, and IS Mode 2 senses in which direction you are panning, and stabilizes the other direction. IS Mode 2 only stabilizes in vertical or horizontal panning directions, and can 'fight' your motion if you're panning in a diagonal direction (i.e. it will stabilize one of the direction components, and not the other); resulting in glitches in the stabilized direction, when the motion just keeps going (same situation as panning in Mode 1). IS Mode 3 avoids these issues by not stabilizing until the shutter button is pushed, and so it avoids trying to compensate for motions experienced before the shutter button is pushed.

IS will provide sharper images at shutter speeds faster than the "rule of thumb" (shutter speeds slower than 1/focal length, for FF camera), just as mirror lockup or EFCS (electronic first-curtain shutter) will provide sharper images at higher and lower shutter speeds than the "rule of thumb" region of shutter speeds from say 1/2 sec to 1/30 sec. In both cases, the camera or lens compensation system can provide better results in many situations outside their "design domain", but they can also can make things worse in some situations. For "very active" panning, like close-by BIF and track-side motorcycle racing, I turn off IS, because the rapid-rotation movement that I make when panning actually helps to stabilize the camera, especially with a big lens, and I don't need IS. If I transfer the lens to a monopod to shoot a stationary subject, then I turn IS on in Mode 1, if I have time and if I actually remember to do it.



Mar 14, 2017 at 06:58 AM
ggreene
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Viewfinder stabilization is very nice especially if you find yourself FL limited with smaller subjects in the viewfinder. So far I have not seen any response issues with 1D bodies (or 7D2) and the 70-200 IS II, 100-400mk2, and 300/2.8. I remember reading some threads about potential lag in the IS motor startup but I have yet to experience it.


Mar 14, 2017 at 07:11 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


I've traditionally always left it on all the time. I shoot with 400mm and above 90% of the time though. 1/1000 and up I'd say it is mostly useful for VF stabilization. However, recently I was experimenting with it OFF and in Mode 3 when shooting erratically moving ravens. What I found is you got less clipped wings as the image you saw in the VF was the exact frame. I found with IS ON (Mode 1 and 2) the image is not always the exact frame you get. Obviously this is only important for subjects that are coming close to frame filling and moving a fair amount. I've also seen that you seem to get more tack sharp shots by keeping it OFF at 1/2000 and above. Not sure why that is but I think the IS is somewhat working against you up in that range.


Mar 14, 2017 at 07:45 AM
technic
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


jcolwell wrote:
Handheld panning with IS in Mode 1 is a definite detriment, too. It's not because of "vibration", it's because of how the IS system attempts to compensate for hand shake (or wind, or etc.). The IS system is designed to compensate for small, harmonic motions (i.e. back and forth). For example, the IS system compensates for lens movement a bit "to the left", by rotating the IS optical group a bit "to the right". When the motion to the left begins, the IS begins a small rotation to the right. This works well when the motions go a bit left,
...Show more

Agree especially about the warning regarding IS use with 'very active' panning. I like taking DIF (dragonfly-in-flight) shots, a bit similar to BIF but even higher (angular) subject speed, so even bigger camera/lens movements required. With my old 4/300IS this was impossible with IS engaged, try it and the lens produces really scary sounds from the IS system. Haven't tried yet with the 100-400II, maybe mode3 would work for this but I doubt it. So in general, I switch off IS for moving subjects (which usually means shutter speeds above 1/800sec or so).

I did some indoors testing with my new 100-400II on 80D camera regarding IS, mostly at 400mm focal length for static subject at 5-10m distance, and it's 'complicated'. Around 1/125-250s the IS wasn't very effective (probably due to mirror/shutter shock), at 1/20-1/100s it works great compared to no IS (plus of course the VF stabilization is a plus). At faster shutter speeds like 1/500-1/1250 the IS increases chances of a really sharp shot compared to no IS, but it's not a huge difference and sometimes images with IS have visible 'shake' as well.

Testing outside with wind, standing on less stable surface and maybe with a more tired photographer the results might be different again ;-)

For my DIF shots 1/2000s or faster is required for really sharp shots (= no IS advantage except stabilizing VF), but often the lighting conditions do not allow that. Also, I find images with some wing blur usually more pleasing, which requires shutter speeds of 1/250-1/800 (= some IS advantage)



Mar 14, 2017 at 07:56 AM
AmbientMike
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


It could zig when you zag, and cause blur, which I think has happened once before, but I don't turn it off at high ss.

Probably redundant around 1/1000 I would guess? Might be helpful if you're panning at that ss and higher though.



Mar 14, 2017 at 11:01 PM
azenis
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


My rule of thumb of minimum shutter speed is 1/FL sec. So, if I were to shoot at 200mm, I'd turn on IS anything below 1/200 of a sec and off anything over.


Mar 14, 2017 at 11:07 PM
D.Hussey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Great feedback guys, thank you all very much for your thoughts!


Mar 14, 2017 at 11:17 PM
D.Hussey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


arbitrage wrote:
I've traditionally always left it on all the time. I shoot with 400mm and above 90% of the time though. 1/1000 and up I'd say it is mostly useful for VF stabilization. However, recently I was experimenting with it OFF and in Mode 3 when shooting erratically moving ravens. What I found is you got less clipped wings as the image you saw in the VF was the exact frame. I found with IS ON (Mode 1 and 2) the image is not always the exact frame you get. Obviously this is only important for subjects that are coming close
...Show more

Interesting you mention this as I have been finding I am getting an inordinate number of 'clipped wings' when I had thought I'd done a good job of keeping my subject completely in frame. I'm curious now to see if turning off the IS will reduce my number of clipping incidents ...... or maybe its my technique that needs fiddling

Did you notice any advantage of using Mode-3 vs turning the IS off?




Mar 14, 2017 at 11:25 PM
D.Hussey
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


melcat wrote:
I do turn it off at high shutter speeds with this lens, on the assumption that it could introduce a delay in acquiring focus. Whether it really does, I haven't tested. I'm pretty sure the IS does use much more battery charge than the rest of the lens and camera put together. And, of course, it's a moving part which wears out.


Your point about battery usage is something I'd not considered and makes a lot of sense, especially if I'm spending a lot of time tracking subjects in anticipation of getting a decent framing. So too does avoiding unnecessary wear and tear on mechanical parts in the lens make good sense from a longevity perspective




Mar 14, 2017 at 11:32 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Clicky94 wrote:
IS is designed to minimize camera shake.
The minimum shutter speed you can use to eliminate shutter speed is dependent on the individual and also on the focal length of the the lens (i.e. the magnification of the image).

In the old 35mm film days it was always expressed relating to the focal length in that the minimum shutter speed for a 100mm lens was 1/100 and the minimum for a 400mm lens was 1/400. These days that figure would have to be adjusted by the crop factor of your camera if you are going to show the yor images at the
...Show more

I would contend that it is not just dependent on crop factor, but that a factor of pixels on the duck too must be co soldered and viewing magnification. I other words the front reference implies some sort of pixels density and magnification which need to get adjusted now as pixels have gotten more dense.



Mar 14, 2017 at 11:46 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Shutter speed - vs - IS


Ming-Tzu wrote:
IS Mode 2 only stabilizes in vertical or horizontal panning directions, and can 'fight' your motion if you're panning in a diagonal direction (i.e. it will stabilize one of the direction components, and not the other); resulting in glitches in the stabilized direction, when the motion just keeps going (same situation as panning in Mode 1). .



This is incorrect at least for mk ii Canon lenses. Mode 2 will create the proper vector for any linear panning, it need not be purely horizontal nor vertical.



Mar 14, 2017 at 11:53 PM
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