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Ball + Geared Hybrid Head
  
 
hiepphotog
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


I just wonder how many here would be interested in this kind of hybrid head. What possible disadvantages of these heads? I have both the KPS T5 and Arca Swiss P0 Hybrid heads coming for my personal testing. Just want to see if I can address any of the current concerns.


Mar 07, 2017 at 10:20 PM
mstrickland
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


I've tried the KPS T5 and currently own the P0 Hybrid and much prefer the P0 over the T5. The KPS head was not precise enough for me to justify using it as a geared head. While it still had "geared" movements, you had to be perfectly in-line with the motions, otherwise it would drift to one side or the other. With the Hybrid, it clicks into place so you know when your pan is exactly lined up to the axis you want to pan/tilt in. It's probably my favorite tripod head I've ever used.


Mar 08, 2017 at 08:57 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


who's carrying the p0 hybrid in the US?


Mar 08, 2017 at 09:46 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


mstrickland wrote:
I've tried the KPS T5 and currently own the P0 Hybrid and much prefer the P0 over the T5. The KPS head was not precise enough for me to justify using it as a geared head. While it still had "geared" movements, you had to be perfectly in-line with the motions, otherwise it would drift to one side or the other. With the Hybrid, it clicks into place so you know when your pan is exactly lined up to the axis you want to pan/tilt in. It's probably my favorite tripod head I've ever used.


Just got my P0 Hybrid, and so far, I have to agree with you. The detent works out nicely. However, for the panning base, I actually prefer without the detent. We'll see if I can live with that over time. But I'm glad that I got this one so far. Best of world the way I see it.



Mar 09, 2017 at 12:37 AM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
who's carrying the p0 hybrid in the US?


http://rodklukas.com/



Mar 09, 2017 at 12:55 AM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Thanks for the info
however could not find a "shopping cart" link... only at the arca-swiss official site.

I have the TS coming my way..arriving sometime next week.

are you guys shooting macro, architectural? both? something else?



Mar 09, 2017 at 10:56 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
Thanks for the info
however could not find a "shopping cart" link... only at the arca-swiss official site.

I have the TS coming my way..arriving sometime next week.

are you guys shooting macro, architectural? both? something else?


email Rod. He's the Arca Swiss US rep. I'm using geared head mainly for multi-row pano. I do some product and architecture photography as well. It can also benefit astro-photography. Really, except for a real gimbal head use, I can't see anything else that a hybrid ball+geared can't do.



Mar 09, 2017 at 11:32 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


well, it's not going to work...
there is a long waiting list, a >$140 surcharge from buying in the US vs directly, and I think I can live without the detentes/clicks.
By the time it would arrive, I would have to be returning the T5
On the KPS, the tilt axis align with the turn knobs - implicit in the manual but not described - it's just a matter of get them correctly aligned as needed.
I will have the upgrade the plate - the locking knob surface is a bit too rough compared with RRS clamps that I have

Thanks for the help



Mar 14, 2017 at 09:12 PM
Andre Y
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


How about the A-S d4 if you can't get a P0 Hybrid easily?

I have the KPS T5, and it's fine, and the company and distributor are responsive (eg. they added the bosses to the shaft after requests for better compatibility with RRS clamps, which have cutouts to receive the bosses so the clamp doesn't twist on the shaft), but I have to be mindful to align the camera with the microtilt knobs, which is not an automatic thing. I find it easier to adjust the microtilt if the main knob is unlocked, too.

I had a P0 and it worked well for me, and was one of the few A-S heads that you could get without a clamp. If I had to get an A-S head today, I'd probably drop-ship it to Precision Camera Works first to remove the A-S clamp, and then have it shipped to me.

The P0's internals are slightly fragile: I know someone who's gone through 2 of them already by stripping the internal gears. I think if you don't apply gorilla-level tightening, they should be OK.



Mar 14, 2017 at 10:52 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


H, my apologies for sort of "hijacking: your thread

Thanks Andre, I looked at it and should had watched the video first - better yet the stock is available at both B&H and Adorama
the non geared version seems to be very similar (operation-wise) to the KPS,.



Mar 15, 2017 at 02:30 PM
 

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hiepphotog
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
well, it's not going to work...
there is a long waiting list, a >$140 surcharge from buying in the US vs directly, and I think I can live without the detentes/clicks.
By the time it would arrive, I would have to be returning the T5
On the KPS, the tilt axis align with the turn knobs - implicit in the manual but not described - it's just a matter of get them correctly aligned as needed.
I will have the upgrade the plate - the locking knob surface is a bit too rough compared with RRS clamps that I have

Thanks for the help


Rod actually has a couple more P0 Hybrid in stock. And the surcharge is not >$140. Most Arca Swiss distributors in Europe don't ship directly to the US. The French Arca Swiss store (cheapest around) requires you to do a bank transfer and email them the proof (such an archaic system). So with all the fees, you might not save that much. The hassle to go through the process is huge though.

Buying straight from Robert White would give you roughly less than $50 in saving....

I had both the KPS T5 and the P0 Hybrid over the weekend. The KPS gear is not very responsive, especially when you change the direction. And since the gear movement doesn't keep around the center (same with the D4), changing one axis would affect the other. It seems nice to have an integrated solution. But overall, I think the "crude" approach of stacking two different head on top of each other is a much better way to go.



Mar 15, 2017 at 05:19 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


hiepphotog wrote:
Rod actually has a couple more P0 Hybrid in stock. And the surcharge is not >$140. Most Arca Swiss distributors in Europe don't ship directly to the US. The French Arca Swiss store (cheapest around) requires you to do a bank transfer and email them the proof (such an archaic system). So with all the fees, you might not save that much. The hassle to go through the process is huge though.

Buying straight from Robert White would give you roughly less than $50 in saving....

I had both the KPS T5 and the P0 Hybrid over the weekend. The KPS gear
...Show more

well, not as of yesterday - wait list of six....
(730 euros without vat) ...and them indeed the shipping is more expensive too. btw, the "surcharge" is on me upon deciding wait tto buy it before upcoming vacation or not, meaning, I can get it locally...

That shaft on the P0 scares me a little bit - yes, I saw the videos on Ytube.
In all the D4 manual and KPS are not too different
the P0 hybrid is indeed a different option from the Cube or the D4 geared version.
might be a crude approach, but seems to work - just not convinced (yet) as there are not many reviews /feedback from it, being so recent



Mar 15, 2017 at 06:04 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Bacalhau wrote:
well, not as of yesterday - wait list of six....
(730 euros without vat) ...and them indeed the shipping is more expensive too. btw, the "surcharge" is on me upon deciding wait tto buy it before upcoming vacation or not, meaning, I can get it locally...

That shaft on the P0 scares me a little bit - yes, I saw the videos on Ytube.
In all the D4 manual and KPS are not too different
the P0 hybrid is indeed a different option from the Cube or the D4 geared version.
might be a crude approach, but seems to work - just not convinced (yet)
...Show more

I have the P0 Hybrid now so if you have any question, let me know. As for the durability of the head, you can just read the plentiful P0 reviews out there. I wouldn't use 400+ lens on the head cause simply a gimbal is a much better option.



Mar 15, 2017 at 06:31 PM
Andre Y
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


The P0 Hybrid is 730?! Holy cow, that's expensive. A Cube or d4 isn't much more expensive at that point, though heavier, but much more capable.


Mar 15, 2017 at 07:21 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Actually I do ....
- does it still sort of follows a path defined by the controlling knob? and how is it different or similar to the KPS in that regard?, I mean, is not that the tilt can be set outside a fixed x and y axis is t it?
any interference from the knobs with tripod base plate when the head is tilted 90 degrees?

ps1:I have found many reviews for the the regular P0 but not for the hybrid

ps2: found one review about shaft failure too

Edited on Mar 15, 2017 at 07:48 PM · View previous versions



Mar 15, 2017 at 07:36 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Andre Y wrote:
The P0 Hybrid is 730?! Holy cow, that's expensive. A Cube or d4 isn't much more expensive at that point, though heavier, but much more capable.


actually only the D4 manual- aka non-geared is less expensive.
KPS T5 is close enough
Both D4 geared and Cube are over 1K......



Mar 15, 2017 at 07:39 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Andre Y wrote:
The P0 Hybrid is 730?! Holy cow, that's expensive. A Cube or d4 isn't much more expensive at that point, though heavier, but much more capable.


I'm not so sure which aspect of the D4 you think is more capable than this P0 Hybrid. The P0 Hybrid utilizes the same gear principle (goniometer) as the Cube, which is far superior than the either the KPS or the D4. It keeps the camera around the center point. There is no backlash that is present in the D4 either. If I want to go with the D4-like head, I would get the KPS instead, cheaper and lighter.

---------------------------------------------

Bacalhau wrote:
Actually I do ....
- does it still sort of follows a path defined by the controlling knob? and how is it different or similar to the KPS in that regard?, I mean, is not that the tilt can be set outside a fixed x and y axis is t it?
any interference from the knobs with tripod base plate when the head is tilted 90 degrees?

ps1:I have found many reviews for the the regular P0 but not for the hybrid

ps2: found one review about shaft failure too


I'm not sure what you mean by your first two questions. The P0 hybrid gear is almost identical to the Cube, very responsive, no backlash, and fine enough gradation, albeit with less movement range. The minor difference between the Cube and this P0 goniometer is that the knob is in the same movement direction that it controls on the P0, instead of being perpendicular to the movement like on the Cube (more preferrable IMO). One additional annoying thing with the KPS is that if you may need to reset the gear rod sticking out of the knob from time to time. I can see it happens.

Regarding your last question, no interference when tilted at 90 degrees.

Interesting about the shaft failure.... I suggested you to read the P0 review since the gear part is just added on top. And that part is about as good as the Cube I used before.














Mar 15, 2017 at 10:53 PM
Andre Y
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


I have the KPS already, and I'm surprised to hear that the d4 has backlash. By more capable, I meant being able to support more weight (the P0 definitely has a weight limit above which it won't hold a position), and having independent adjustments of the axes, both for large movements and small, geared ones.


Mar 15, 2017 at 11:33 PM
hiepphotog
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


Andre Y wrote:
I have the KPS already, and I'm surprised to hear that the d4 has backlash. By more capable, I meant being able to support more weight (the P0 definitely has a weight limit above which it won't hold a position), and having independent adjustments of the axes, both for large movements and small, geared ones.


Fair points though it really depends on the applications. The P0 can hold pretty much a pro body with a 300 lens. Above that, I think a gimbal head is a better choice. I don't see the point of independent large adjustments of the axes, haven't needed one this whole time.

So the P0 Hybrid is lighter and cheaper than the D4 while having a better geared implementation. I doubt I would ever want a Cube in its place either. Keeping the movement centered is a huge point to me after I used the Cube (perfect for a pano, especially multi-row pano). That's why I wouldn't take a D4 or KPS T5 either.



Mar 16, 2017 at 04:15 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Ball + Geared Hybrid Head


So, could one conclude that the Cube and P0 do a better job for pannos and architectural than the D4 and T5, but both D4 and T5 will have a larger( not with the cube) and faster adjustment tilt range more suitable for macro?

my main goal for a geared head is macro and also astro/night photography with a tracker. I need both solid precision and somewhat fast re-positioning.
I am a bit reluctant with the P0 only offering 10 degrees....
The cube would be overkill and slower
in sum I am narrowing or at least trying, to the T5 or geared D4
weight load and carrying are minor issues, as I won't use anything larger that the EF 180mm and the mt-24ex flash
what do you guys think?



Mar 16, 2017 at 05:35 PM
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