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Archive 2017 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue

  
 
RKnecht
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p.4 #1 · p.4 #1 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


OK, so I went into the yard with one of my dogs and my D5, D810, and my 70-200VR. The dynamic AF on the 810 is totally different than the D5. It actually works as you would expect it to. I think this matter needs to be addressed by Nikon. It's definitely not right.


Mar 03, 2017 at 11:27 AM
ELinder
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p.4 #2 · p.4 #2 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
That's one of the things I find concerning. It always seem to indicate the center AF point, but it still "locks on" even if the subject is not under the AF area (note it will only do this with a blank sky - and locking on to something else in the AF field is a normal behavior int his case). OTOH, the "older" bodies will show a different AF point.


I'm glad you mentioned that, as it really bothers me on my D5. The D4s used to display which AF point actually locked up, but on the D5 it seems to show which point was chosen, not which actually ended up being used. That makes it basically worthless to me since I used to use it a simple way to judge of if it was my fault the pic was blured due to motion or whether it just didn't lock the focus at all or focused where I didn't want it to.

Erich




Mar 03, 2017 at 01:15 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #3 · p.4 #3 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RKnecht wrote:
OK, so I went into the yard with one of my dogs and my D5, D810, and my 70-200VR. The dynamic AF on the 810 is totally different than the D5. It actually works as you would expect it to. I think this matter needs to be addressed by Nikon. It's definitely not right.


Thanks for testing It's appreciated and I too think it's a bug of some sort.



Mar 03, 2017 at 01:40 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #4 · p.4 #4 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


ELinder wrote:
I'm glad you mentioned that, as it really bothers me on my D5. The D4s used to display which AF point actually locked up, but on the D5 it seems to show which point was chosen, not which actually ended up being used. That makes it basically worthless to me since I used to use it a simple way to judge of if it was my fault the pic was blured due to motion or whether it just didn't lock the focus at all or focused where I didn't want it to.

Erich



At this point, we're starting to think that the camera isn't handing off the AF point properly - or at least the way it used to. To me, it's acting like single point AF surrounded by an Auto AF area that takes over if the main AF point can't focus on anything at all (i.e. the primary AF point is against the sky, a blank wall etc) instead of continuing to try to track the primary subject when it leaves the primary point.



Mar 03, 2017 at 01:44 PM
santoshiyer
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p.4 #5 · p.4 #5 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I did not see this post until today. I tried out the D500 (I don’t have a D5 to test) and the camera refocuses on 153, 75 and 25 points. On Auto and 3D they work well. Similar to what “Boblug” has mentioned earlier.


Mar 04, 2017 at 12:10 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #6 · p.4 #6 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


santoshiyer wrote:
I did not see this post until today. I tried out the D500 (I don’t have a D5 to test) and the camera refocuses on 153, 75 and 25 points. On Auto and 3D they work well. Similar to what “Boblug” has mentioned earlier.


Thanks for checking it out. I think something is going on for sure - the question is if it's just a change or if there's a bug.



Mar 04, 2017 at 12:55 PM
Howard Kearley
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p.4 #7 · p.4 #7 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Hi Steve,

My D5 & D500 Dynamic AF are working the same as yours, I first noticed this in the field some time okay but put it down to me, my inside test is as yours and not working as my D810, I like the Dynamic on the D810. seems we have a lot of focus points not doing what we thought they would, be awesome if they worked as the D810 so not sure whats going on here?

Howard.



Mar 06, 2017 at 12:32 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #8 · p.4 #8 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Howard Kearley wrote:
Hi Steve,

My D5 & D500 Dynamic AF are working the same as yours, I first noticed this in the field some time okay but put it down to me, my inside test is as yours and not working as my D810, I like the Dynamic on the D810. seems we have a lot of focus points not doing what we thought they would, be awesome if they worked as the D810 so not sure whats going on here?

Howard.


Thanks for testing it out and letting me know. Sounds like you may have noticed it well before I did

I noticed Nikon has a firmware update coming out later this month for the D500 to address issues with Snapbridge. Part of me wonders if they'll quietly correct this "issue" (If they feel it is an issue) with that firmware.



Mar 06, 2017 at 02:50 PM
RKnecht
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p.4 #9 · p.4 #9 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


OK, so I tried something new today. It's a little windy, so I bought the D5 and 70-200VR out in the yard for some more scientific testing. I put the camera in dynamic AF72pt and aimed it at a shrub branch. As the branch blew around in the wind, the camera stayed locked on to it until it left the 72 point area. Next I tried 153pt AF. The camera was even more impressive as it held the branch in focus as the wind whipped it around pretty good. So it would seem to me that even though the dynamic area AF is indeed different than that of my D810, it still works amazingly well.


Mar 09, 2017 at 04:13 PM
AnnJS
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p.4 #10 · p.4 #10 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


AF is working to my entire satisfaction on my D5.

On fast moving live creatures, the 3D mode is remarkable in both speedy lock-on and then retaining the lock.




Mar 09, 2017 at 04:31 PM
snapsy
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p.4 #11 · p.4 #11 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RKnecht wrote:
OK, so I tried something new today. It's a little windy, so I bought the D5 and 70-200VR out in the yard for some more scientific testing. I put the camera in dynamic AF72pt and aimed it at a shrub branch. As the branch blew around in the wind, the camera stayed locked on to it until it left the 72 point area. Next I tried 153pt AF. The camera was even more impressive as it held the branch in focus as the wind whipped it around pretty good. So it would seem to me that even though the dynamic
...Show more

When you say the camera remained locked on the branch do you mean it actually switched to one of the other AF points during focusing as the branch blew around? If so, did you verify this was the case by looking at the acquired AF point of the image in the camera's image review (or on the computer with Capture NX-D).



Mar 09, 2017 at 05:49 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #12 · p.4 #12 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RKnecht wrote:
OK, so I tried something new today. It's a little windy, so I bought the D5 and 70-200VR out in the yard for some more scientific testing. I put the camera in dynamic AF72pt and aimed it at a shrub branch. As the branch blew around in the wind, the camera stayed locked on to it until it left the 72 point area. Next I tried 153pt AF. The camera was even more impressive as it held the branch in focus as the wind whipped it around pretty good. So it would seem to me that even though the dynamic
...Show more

I was going to ask the same as Snapsy above. Also, what was behind the primary AF point? In my tests, there needs to be an AF-friendly target behind the primary AF point or it will actually seem to stick with the main target. I'll post another example shortly.

Thanks!



Mar 09, 2017 at 06:17 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #13 · p.4 #13 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


AnnJS wrote:
AF is working to my entire satisfaction on my D5.

On fast moving live creatures, the 3D mode is remarkable in both speedy lock-on and then retaining the lock.



Aside from the difference in Dynamic, as far as I can tell all the other AF modes are great in the D5/D500 - 3D in particular is a noticeable improvement over previous versions.



Mar 09, 2017 at 06:18 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #14 · p.4 #14 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Here's an example I'd like to share involving a very simple action scenario.

In this set of images, I was using the D5 (set to 5FPS to keep the number of frames reasonable) with d153. My daughter was running towards the camera and as she did, I placed the center (primary) AF point on her and focused. As she ran, I tracked for a short bit (there are about 10 shots prior to the set below) to make sure the camera did indeed have a lock.

As she ran towards the camera, I reframed so the primary AF point was no longer on her BUT she was still WELL within the d153 area's coverage. As you can see, after a quick delay (as determined by the Focus tracking with lock-on > blocked AF response setting) the camera switched to the background (1frame - 1/5th of a second is all). At no time did the camera hand-off the AF point so it could continue to track my daughter as we would expect.

Any earlier version of Dynamic AF (like on a D810, D7200, D4s, etc), would NOT have released the lock on the primary target in favor of the background. Instead, it would have handed off AF to one of the points covering my daughter and stayed there through the duration. As you can see from the photos, the camera never uses any AF point except the primary.

Additionally, it's also interesting that the Blocked AF response kicked in. That shouldn't happen unless the subject has completely left the field or the camera thought it completely lost the lock.

A scenario where someone is running towards the camera is exactly the type of thing Dynamic should be able to handle, but yet in test after test it gives up the main target for the background - IF the background is a good AF target. A blank background (sky, wall etc) and the camera will stay on target - although I think it’s only grabbing the best area of contrast.

In my opinion, this is acting a lot like Single Point AF surrounded by an AF Auto mode that only kicks in if there is nothing to focus on under the primary AF point. I'm not sure if this is by design or accident, but as you can see from the images, it's a step back either way. The D810 would never let go like that.





Here are a series of six shots as she's running towards the camera and I'm getting ready to pull the primary AF point off of her







Here the main AF point is on her, tracking as expected.







Starting to move off







Off target, but the Blocked AF Response delay is in play so focus stays on target







AF delay is over and instead of handing off the target, you can see it continues to use the center AF point and goes for the background




Mar 09, 2017 at 06:44 PM
Lance B
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p.4 #15 · p.4 #15 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I may be wrong, but wouldn't this be what should happen? The primary AF point is the central point and if it can find a point of focus it will do so and in the last image that now happens to the background. I think the camera is assuming that you have some modicum of ability (this is not a dig at your ability, just for this test) to track the target and have it reasonably on the target. The delay has worked as intended and kept on the target for the assigned time which is allowing you to recompose and follow the target with the occasional slight miss, which is how I thought it should work. In the case above, I would be at least attempting to follow the subject and the delay should allow for slight misses and once you get back on the target it would stay focused. I mean, once the centre point is over something else that that is now your intended target, once the delay has elapsed, that is the reason why you can set the delay time.


Mar 09, 2017 at 06:53 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #16 · p.4 #16 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Lance B wrote:
I may be wrong, but wouldn't this be what should happen? The primary AF point is the central point and if it can find a point of focus it will do so and in the last image that now happens to the background. I think the camera is assuming that you have some modicum of ability (this is not a dig at your ability, just for this test) to track the target and have it reasonably on the target. The delay has worked as intended and kept on the target for the assigned time which is allowing you to
...Show more

Dynamic should hold onto the primary target - I've done the same test with the D810 and D7200 and it always holds the target - as it should.

What it's doing in this case is acting like it's in single point AF. In single point, it should track until it loses the target, then the Blocked AF Response time should kick in, and then it will attempt to focus on whatever is under the selected AF point. It's almost like it's ignoring the Dynamic area.

The way Dynamic is acting now, you're just as well off with Single Point AF since it's not handing off the AF point.



Mar 09, 2017 at 06:59 PM
Lance B
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p.4 #17 · p.4 #17 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
Dynamic should hold onto the primary target - I've done the same test with the D810 and D7200 and it always holds the target - as it should.

What it's doing in this case is acting like it's in single point AF. In single point, it should track until it loses the target, then the Blocked AF Response time should kick in, and then it will attempt to focus on whatever is under the selected AF point. It's almost like it's ignoring the Dynamic area.

The way Dynamic is acting now, you're just as well off with Single Point
...Show more

Have you tried changing it from Erratic to Steady?



Mar 09, 2017 at 10:05 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #18 · p.4 #18 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Lance B wrote:
Have you tried changing it from Erratic to Steady?


Yup

I was messing with it and testing for well over a month before I made my post. I tried every combination of the A3 setting possible, all with the same results. (I'm pursuing this far harder than I should be )

And the thing is, that setting should not come into play at all unless the subject falls outside of the AF area. That's how it works with every other mode on the D5/ D500 and how it's worked in the past on other cameras in Dynamic (and other AF modes on those). It should only activate the delay when the subject falls out of the area, but instead it's doing it when the subject falls away from the primary AF point but is still well within the selected AF field.

I wouldn't make such a big deal out of it if the D810 and D7200 didn't clearly work better in Dynamic. The D500/D5 kills them in any other area mode, but not sure why Dynamic is now worse. If the camera isn't going to hand-off AF to another point, I'm not sure what the purpose of the mode is over single point AF. After all, all the A3 settings work the same in single point (I've tested them), so the only thing I find that Dynamic can do that single point can't is latch onto a new area of contrast if there is absolutely nothing under the AF point. It's subject tracking ability has been lost.

Honestly, I suspect a glitch, but maybe Nikon is trying something different and it's just not as effective as the old system. All I know is that Dynamic mode ain't what it used to be!

If you have a pre-D500 camera, try out the experiment I put in the beginning of the thread. In those images, you can see how the D810 handed off focus to another AF point when I moved the camera and the D5/D500 didn't.

All I know is it will be interesting to see what happens. Seems like something is amiss to me...



Mar 09, 2017 at 10:28 PM
Lance B
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p.4 #19 · p.4 #19 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I do have the D500, but I rarely if ever use other than AF-C in Single point or Group. Even when I have rarely used 25 or 72 point, I haven't noticed an issue, but that is probably because I generally only use it for birds in flight.

However, since mucking around with AF modes, I have discovered that I can't move the AF from AF-C to AF-S! It is usually accomplished by pressing the AF mode button and turning the Command Dial, but mine won't budge from AF-C! I hardly ever use AF-S anyway, so it's no big deal, but it should work! Any ideas?



Mar 09, 2017 at 10:35 PM
Steve Perry
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p.4 #20 · p.4 #20 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Lance B wrote:
I do have the D500, but I rarely if ever use other than AF-C in Single point or Group. Even when I have rarely used 25 or 72 point, I haven't noticed an issue, but that is probably because I generally only use it for birds in flight.

However, since mucking around with AF modes, I have discovered that I can't move the AF from AF-C to AF-S! It is usually accomplished by pressing the AF mode button and turning the Command Dial, but mine won't budge from AF-C! I hardly ever use AF-S anyway, so it's no big deal,
...Show more

Yup, the camera rocks in single point and group - and that's how I use it most of the time as well. The Dynamic thing came up because of a project I was working on. Needed some sample shots and noticed it didn't work like in the old days.

As for the AF-C issue, that - might - be easy Check A10 and make sure it's set to Off. I'll bet it's on AF-C.



Mar 09, 2017 at 10:39 PM
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