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UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue
  
 
snapsy
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
Good thought but... I tried and the camera sticks with whatever target is under the center point, regardless of where I start. I've also tried this with a moving target walking from side to side in front of the camera, as well as lots of birds. Always the same results. The only exception is when you have a blue sky behind them, but the Dynamic areas will automatically latch onto another good area of contrast if the main point can't get a lock, so I think that's all that's happening.

I'm truly hoping it's just an oversight or something
...Show more

Ok, thanks. I have some more ideas to troubleshoot What happens if the subjects moves off the center AF point rather than you moving the camera? Does the camera track it to the new AF point? (both with and without something behind the subject that the center AF point could switch to)



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:59 AM
boblug
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I have the D500 and did your proposed tests.
1. In 153 point it lets go immediately, quite disappointing.
2. In 75 point it lets go between centre point two thirds to outside of those points, again disappointing.
3. In 25 pt, it lets go around mid way from centre to edge. To me that's really disappointing as erratic spots need this.
4. For giggles tried auto and 3D and both these work perfectly and don't lose until out of are.

The interesting thing is I havnt really seen this effect in real action use. Sometimes I get backfocus but assumed it was my error, so perhaps there is something to this.



Mar 01, 2017 at 04:02 AM
kwilliam8
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I spent some time testing my Nikon D810, D500, and D5 using the Nikon 300mm PF lens at f/4. All three cameras have the latest firmware. The D810 worked as expected. The D500 and D5 did not work as expected, but they seemed to act similar to each other. Using D25 area, the D500/D5 seemed to work roughly correctly. Using the D72 area, the D500/D5 seemed to work roughly correctly (although I think they may have switched focusing distances a very tiny bit sooner than I would have expected). Using D153, things were definitely messed up. Using D153, if I moved the camera vertically, the focus switched immediately. Using D153, if I moved the camera horizontally, the focus switched roughly around the area where you would expect it to for D72 (I hope this makes sense). I tried this multiple times on multiple targets. My A3 settings for the D500 and D5 were block = 3, and motion = normal.

In summary, for the D500 and D5, I found that dynamic area autofocusing was not working as expected using the D153 area, but working reasonably well for the other areas (i.e., D72 and D25). Btw, my recent thread:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1476039
was shot using dynamic area D72 on the D500 camera. For that afternoon, I had very few out of focus images (although I did have some where the focus was on the wing tips and not the eyes (most likely due to user error)). While I may be somewhat skilled, I am not skilled enough to keep a single AF point on the eyes of a fast moving owl. There was brush behind the owls that would have come into focus had the dynamic D72 area not been working roughly as promised. I know this is anecdotal, but this is not the first time that I have had good success with dynamic D72 area:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1466192
That time I used the D72 area of the D5 camera.

Steve, thank you very much for bringing this issue to our attention!
Sincerely, Keith Williamson


Edited on Mar 02, 2017 at 08:48 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2017 at 06:41 AM
mp0363
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


I'm not sure I understand the question especially since this is Steve Perry.

I've never experienced a Nikon (D750, D500) that would change focus on a focus-and-recompose, and i've never had a Nikon that would hold focus on my subject as it or I move unless I am in 3D.

Please explain for a luddite what you are doing?



Mar 01, 2017 at 10:47 AM
Paul_K
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


delete


Edited on Mar 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2017 at 11:22 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Dude, that ain't cool. Well, I'm in Group or 25 pt 24/7/365
and find they work as intended. Everything I shoot moves
and if the center loses lock a surrounding point will pick it
up. That "locking" AF point is confirmed on playback. Know
I'm of no help but will follow along to see what comes of it.



Mar 01, 2017 at 11:31 AM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


snapsy wrote:
Ok, thanks. I have some more ideas to troubleshoot What happens if the subjects moves off the center AF point rather than you moving the camera? Does the camera track it to the new AF point? (both with and without something behind the subject that the center AF point could switch to)


Another good thought - but I've tried that in a variety of scenarios (both with people and animals) and the results are the same. I'll pan along with the target, and then deliberately slid my AF point off - at which point it will now favor whatever is under it - same behavior.

The only time the camera will stick with the subject is if there's nothing of interest to lock onto with the primary AF point (i.e. a blue sky is a good example).



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:45 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


boblug wrote:
I have the D500 and did your proposed tests.
1. In 153 point it lets go immediately, quite disappointing.
2. In 75 point it lets go between centre point two thirds to outside of those points, again disappointing.
3. In 25 pt, it lets go around mid way from centre to edge. To me that's really disappointing as erratic spots need this.
4. For giggles tried auto and 3D and both these work perfectly and don't lose until out of are.

The interesting thing is I havnt really seen this effect in real action use. Sometimes I get backfocus but assumed it was my error,
...Show more

Yup, that's what I'm seeing as well. It's funny too - when I used the D7200 (before the D500 was out), Dynamic worked really well for me. On the D5/D500 I've favored Group and I was thinking that it was simply a better mode for what I shoot, but it seems like Dynamic just may not be worked right - or as expected - on the new bodies.



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:47 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


kwilliam8 wrote:
I spent some time testing my Nikon D810, D500, and D5 using the Nikon 300mm PF lens at f/4. All three cameras have the latest firmware. The D810 worked as expected. The D500 and D5 did not work as expected, but they seemed to act similar to each other. Using D25 area, the D500/D5 seemed to work roughly correctly. Using the D72 area, the D500/D5 seemed to work roughly correctly (although I think they may have switched focusing distances a very tiny bit sooner than I would have expected). Using D153, things were definitely messed up. Using D153, if I
...Show more

Hi Keith -

Looking at your excellent owl photos, I know why D72 was working.

I had a suspicion (I've been chasing this down by myself for over a month now) that if you use a longer lens and the background is out of focus enough, the camera won't attempt to refocus. So, I did a couple tests.

In the first test, I had my wife rapidly walk towards me using a 200mm F4 lens (she was 30~40 feet away I suppose). I did the test and the camera switched to the background.

I then tried the same thing with the 600 F4. As you know, the background from that range with that focal length is mush less defined (your owl photos are a good example). In that scenario, the camera stuck with the main subject - but I believe that it was ONLY because the background was blurred to such an extent that it no longer presented a good enough target for the AF system. So, your results make sense to me.

In any event, it seems there is something obviously wrong (or again, changed for the worse) with Nikon's Dynamic mode.



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:52 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


mp0363 wrote:
I'm not sure I understand the question especially since this is Steve Perry.

I've never experienced a Nikon (D750, D500) that would change focus on a focus-and-recompose, and i've never had a Nikon that would hold focus on my subject as it or I move unless I am in 3D.

Please explain for a luddite what you are doing?


Not really a question, just trying to verify a behavior discrepancy I'v noticed between the old and new AF systems in Dynamic mode. Note that every other AF function works as expected, it's only Dynamic mode that is showing the issue. Focus and recompose (single shot I assume) works as expected.



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:55 PM
 

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Steve Perry
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


trenchmonkey wrote:
Dude, that ain't cool. Well, I'm in Group or 25 pt 24/7/365
and find they work as intended. Everything I shoot moves
and if the center loses lock a surrounding point will pick it
up. That "locking" AF point is confirmed on playback. Know
I'm of no help but will follow along to see what comes of it.


Thanks Will With your tracking skills, I figured you'd just use single point

If you get a chance though, check it out with 153 and deliberately take your AF point off target and put it over something juicy.



Mar 01, 2017 at 03:57 PM
Photozack81
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue




Steve Perry wrote:
Yup, that's what I'm seeing as well. It's funny too - when I used the D7200 (before the D500 was out), Dynamic worked really well for me. On the D5/D500 I've favored Group and I was thinking that it was simply a better mode for what I shoot, but it seems like Dynamic just may not be worked right - or as expected - on the new bodies.


I was using dynamic on the d7200 as a poor man's replacement for group. Now that the d500 actually supports group I really can't think of a reason to use the dynamic modes. If I can't keep a single point on the subject, group seems to get it done well enough for my purposes. There might be something I'm missing out on by not using the dynamic modes but since they seem to be broken anyway I'm not too worried about it.



Mar 01, 2017 at 04:08 PM
louie champan
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Thanks Steve for starting this thread, as soon as I get a moment and it stops raining I'll give it a try with my D5 and D500.


Mar 01, 2017 at 04:51 PM
snapsy
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
Another good thought - but I've tried that in a variety of scenarios (both with people and animals) and the results are the same. I'll pan along with the target, and then deliberately slid my AF point off - at which point it will now favor whatever is under it - same behavior.

The only time the camera will stick with the subject is if there's nothing of interest to lock onto with the primary AF point (i.e. a blue sky is a good example).


Thanks Steve. Next experiment: Can you try your original test but using an initial AF point other than the center point, especially an initial AF point that is far enough away from the center so that the dynamic group also doesn't include the center point?



Mar 01, 2017 at 04:52 PM
RKnecht
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


OK, just tried this with my D5 and 70-200 VR. The dynamic area AF seems to work as it should in 25 and 72 point mode (didn't try 9 point). However, if I switch to 153 points, the camera refocuses at the same point it does in 72 point mode. So it would seem that 153 point dynamic is no better than 72 point and therefore useless. Hmmm.


Mar 01, 2017 at 05:10 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


snapsy wrote:
Thanks Steve. Next experiment: Can you try your original test but using an initial AF point other than the center point, especially an initial AF point that is far enough away from the center so that the dynamic group also doesn't include the center point?


Yup, have tried that in the field and tried it just now using D72. It seems "stickier" than he center point, but the AF point I used as primary was a line sensor, not a cross type. As soon as it saw something it liked, it switched off the main subject again.



Mar 01, 2017 at 06:08 PM
Steve Perry
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


RKnecht wrote:
OK, just tried this with my D5 and 70-200 VR. The dynamic area AF seems to work as it should in 25 and 72 point mode (didn't try 9 point). However, if I switch to 153 points, the camera refocuses at the same point it does in 72 point mode. So it would seem that 153 point dynamic is no better than 72 point and therefore useless. Hmmm.


Interesting. I can get D72 to consistently focus on the background when I try it. (I can also get D25 to grab the background easily - instead of sticking with the main target).

So, at this point it seems like some of the smaller dynamic areas are at least somewhat successful for some people, but D153 isn't really working well for anyone.



Mar 01, 2017 at 06:11 PM
snapsy
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


Steve Perry wrote:
Yup, have tried that in the field and tried it just now using D72. It seems "stickier" than he center point, but the AF point I used as primary was a line sensor, not a cross type. As soon as it saw something it liked, it switched off the main subject again.


Thanks again. Question: For the case where you move the initial AF point (center) off the subject and onto something unfocusable (like the sky), does the camera properly use an adjacent AF point for focusing, as determined by the active AF point displayed in the image review of that photo?



Mar 01, 2017 at 06:18 PM
henry albert
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


My d500 will not hold focus in any dynamic mode.

Edited on Mar 01, 2017 at 06:30 PM · View previous versions



Mar 01, 2017 at 06:23 PM
henry albert
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · UPDATE - Nikon D5/D500 Dynamic AF Issue


And interestingly enough, in group mode it will not track.


Mar 01, 2017 at 06:25 PM
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