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Archive 2017 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution

  
 
sjms
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


wandering around the sites this morning. this one on the state of camera sales and such. came upon Thom Hogan commenting on AF on both styles of camera:

"In my experience, a well tuned and controlled DSLR will net far more in focus photos than ANY mirrorless camera (and yes, I've tried them all). It has to do with the way the two approaches work to tracking fast and erratic moving objects.
I had to laugh the other day when another Web site posted a sequence of images from a mirrorless camera claiming that they were "all in focus." Uh, no. Focus was moving considerably from frame to frame and the only reason they were usable at all was that there was some depth of field."- Thom Hogan

reference source: Nikon Rumors DSLR vs Mirrorless cameras CIPA sales



Feb 26, 2017 at 10:36 AM
cvrle59
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


I shot quite a few HS and college basketball games since 2008, mostly with D700 and 70-200mm VR2 (College) or 85mm F1.8 (HS). I just recently tried X-T2 with 35mm F2 (AF is definitely faster than 85mm F1.8G).
All I can say is, I'll take D700 over X-T2 any day of the week, if I would do this regularly or for money. BTW, X-T2 is considered as one of the best mirrorless cameras on the market, in AF department. I don't want to even mention, D750, D500 or D5. I used only D750couple of times, from this group, and it's significantly better than D700, IMO.

P.S. I didn't use battery grip on X-T2, that may change slightly. If I would need to go that direction, I would just use DSLR, the size becomes similar at that point, plus X-T2 looks ugly with it, otherwise, beautiful camera.



Feb 26, 2017 at 10:54 AM
bozziovai
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


well about AF ... we only need to look at great sporting events and see that the professionals ALL use Digital-SLR.


Feb 26, 2017 at 11:13 AM
Two23
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


But what if you never photo sporting events, or much of anything that moves fast? What if you want a small compact camera with a nice set of lenses for (airline) travel, and your subjects are mostly stationary?


Kent in SD



Feb 26, 2017 at 11:21 AM
chez
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


Two23 wrote:
But what if you never photo sporting events, or much of anything that moves fast? What if you want a small compact camera with a nice set of lenses for (airline) travel, and your subjects are mostly stationary?

Kent in SD


Yep...it's not all about sports. I've been using mirrorless for a couple years and for everything other than shooting ironman and rodeos, I choose the mirrorless cameras when I venture out. Funny how we always gravitate to sport to show the superiority of DSLR cameras...nothing else.



Feb 26, 2017 at 11:41 AM
sjms
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


An Olympus om 1. Technically doesn't even need batteries that operate use an external meter

Chez, all I have found of yours is still life.

And even back then I shot bicycle races with that and later the om 3 and 4t



Feb 26, 2017 at 11:45 AM
snapsy
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


Comparing performance of nascent mirrorless AF implementations to DSLRs is about as fair as comparing the first electric cars to a Corvette Z06. Yes, the product of 100 years of combustion-engine technology refinement is better than the first electric cars. That however has changed rapidly and the same holds true for mirrorless.


Feb 26, 2017 at 11:56 AM
Bruce_T
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


DSLR vs. mirrorless is not either / or. One can use each for their respective strengths. I am working towards a mixed kit with minimal overlap.

Fast action? Shallow depth of field? Low light? Flash? DSLR in a heartbeat.

Portability? Vacation? Need more depth of field? Mirrorless, natch.



Feb 26, 2017 at 12:10 PM
sjms
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


snapsy wrote:
Comparing performance of nascent mirrorless AF implementations to DSLRs is about as fair as comparing the first electric cars to a Corvette Z06. Yes, the product of 100 years of combustion-engine technology refinement is better than the first electric cars. That however has changed rapidly and the same holds true for mirrorless.


not so sure on how you catagorize "rapidly". as i have said before i had the proof of concept model "mirrorless" back in 2001/2003 which essentially packed the basics of today's mirrorless in it

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1

that would make "rapidly" 12+ years and still plodding along at a snails pace.





Feb 26, 2017 at 12:43 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


sjms wrote:
not so sure on how you catagorize "rapidly". as i have said before i had the prooof of concept model "mirrorless" back in 2001/2003 which essentially packed the basics of today's mirrorless in it

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimage7/
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1

I start the timer when MILC moved past the proof-of-concept stage, which was about 2008.



Feb 26, 2017 at 12:46 PM
Spectro
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution




Two23 wrote:
But what if you never photo sporting events, or much of anything that moves fast? What if you want a small compact camera with a nice set of lenses for (airline) travel, and your subjects are mostly stationary?

Kent in SD

Agree with this. Horses for courses.
I shoot sports and would never consider the current mirror less cameras for anything moving. However when I travel for pleasure it is an X-T1 kit and the DSLR's stay at home.



Feb 26, 2017 at 01:21 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


sjms wrote:
wandering around the sites this morning. this one on the state of camera sales and such. came upon Thom Hogan commenting on AF on both styles of camera:

"In my experience, a well tuned and controlled DSLR will net far more in focus photos than ANY mirrorless camera (and yes, I've tried them all). It has to do with the way the two approaches work to tracking fast and erratic moving objects.
I had to laugh the other day when another Web site posted a sequence of images from a mirrorless camera claiming that they were "all in focus." Uh, no. Focus
...Show more

I don't shoot sports of any kind, but still I've abandoned my D800 for AF as it's just too unreliable - AF fine tune for focal length, distance, etc.is a major pain.
My Sony A7RII and now the G85 of m43 are my go-to AF bodies - pick a spot on the screen I want to focus on and it's in focus (other than user error).
With my D800 I'd pick a spot and I'd get slightly front/back focused many times. Want to use a manual focus lens that's anything fast on the D800, forget it.

Sports AF - it's the D800, anything else (AF or MF), mirrorless is excellent, and IMHO, with today's latest bodies, can't be beat by a DSLR.



Feb 26, 2017 at 01:25 PM
bozziovai
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


Two23 wrote:
But what if you never photo sporting events, or much of anything that moves fast? What if you want a small compact camera with a nice set of lenses for (airline) travel, and your subjects are mostly stationary?

Kent in SD


well, i would assume that you were referring to my statement since you're the one who replied next. well, i specifically indicate AF is superior on a digital-slr than the mirrorless.


but i also agree with what you say. that's the advantage of a mirrorless. compact. no hassle when doing travel. and it delivers magnificent results.

that's why many have two sets of equipment; one the digital-slr for serious stuff and the other is the mirrorless for the "other" stuff.



Feb 26, 2017 at 01:41 PM
chez
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


bozziovai wrote:
well, i would assume that you were referring to my statement since you're the one who replied next. well, i specifically indicate AF is superior on a digital-slr than the mirrorless.

but i also agree with what you say. that's the advantage of a mirrorless. compact. no hassle when doing travel. and it delivers magnificent results.

that's why many have two sets of equipment; one the digital-slr for serious stuff and the other is the mirrorless for the "other" stuff.


Huh, funny I use my mirrorless system for my serious photography and my DSLR when I'm out goofing around at rodeos and such.




Feb 26, 2017 at 02:56 PM
rw11
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


if you want a small compact camera with a nice set of lenses, then m43 is the ticket

I agree that AF Fine tuning reqs are a headache, but I do not plan to abandon my FF Nikon set anytime soon - it will just be used less often and in more niche situations

If Nikon makes a FF mirrorless with some of the tech from the Series One it could be a different ballgame...



Feb 26, 2017 at 03:04 PM
sjms
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


snapsy wrote:
I start the timer when MILC moved past the proof-of-concept stage, which was about 2008.


alternative facts?




Feb 26, 2017 at 04:21 PM
snapsy
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


sjms wrote:
alternative facts?

Aligned to the start of MFT product introductions, which was the first concerted effort to supplant DSLR technology rather than simply coexist with it. The notion of a camera without a mirror extends well before the Minolta concept body you cited, including rangefinders and P&S, but neither represented an attempt to truly replace the functionality of a DSLR.



Feb 26, 2017 at 04:26 PM
sjms
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


oh, i really think thats what minolta had in mind before they ran into issues and sony bought the camera end of their business and put it on ice for a time.


Feb 26, 2017 at 05:11 PM
charles.K
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


Both DSLR's and mirrorless cameras have their strength and weaknesses. I have used Canon both APS-C and FF, presently Nikon D810/D750 which I do love for the AF. I now also have the XT-2 and XF range of lenses, having moved from using the A7r, A7s, A7II and A7rII.

There are no weak systems. Some prefer the EVF, but I still prefer the OVF. For dynamic shots in sports, action and portraits, I find both the D810 and D750 much better than the A7rII or the XT2. The caveat here is as mentioned above, both the D810/D750 and lens combo's have to be well tuned as mentioned by Thom Hogan.

Obviously the mirrorless do not require AF tuning and are accurate. The later series of DSLR's are so much better and the AF accuracy is rarely an issue now.

I am sure with later iterations of mirrorless with the likes of the A9/A7rIII the AF speed will improve approaching that of the FF DSLR's. If AF speed is not an issue for your style of photography it becomes a mute point.

It is interesting to note from the sales graph that the sales of mirrorless have remained relatively constant, but DSLR are still about 3 times greater having dropped about to 60% of 2013 levels. The DSLR bodies are still very relevant for quite some time yet.



Feb 26, 2017 at 05:53 PM
ohsnaphappy
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · DSLR and the Mirrorless not so much revolution


cvrle59 wrote:
I shot quite a few HS and college basketball games since 2008, mostly with D700 and 70-200mm VR2 (College) or 85mm F1.8 (HS). I just recently tried X-T2 with 35mm F2 (AF is definitely faster than 85mm F1.8G).
All I can say is, I'll take D700 over X-T2 any day of the week, if I would do this regularly or for money. BTW, X-T2 is considered as one of the best mirrorless cameras on the market, in AF department. I don't want to even mention, D750, D500 or D5. I used only D750couple of times, from this group, and it's significantly
...Show more

Hugs for anyone shooting a D700. I miss mine everyday. Best camera I ever owned. I couldn't resist a cheap used D4, and while I do occasionally need high ISO & 16mp, the D700 is still exceptionally good for 90% of what I do. God the colors were perfect too!



Feb 26, 2017 at 07:20 PM
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