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Archive 2017 · Spend €450 wisely

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Spend €450 wisely


Hmmmm... I get many recommendations for Nikon and just a few for Canon. I'll research the sl1 and M. But my gut feeling says I should recommend an optical viewfinder.
If the ball finally lands on Nikon then Nikon it is. For my instruction to her it doesn't make much difference. Thanks for your input I really appreciate that.

Edit: so the SL1 is the 100D, smallest dSLR. One thing that makes me pause to think about a used 60D for the same budget is that these small new bodies have much better IQ because the sensors are much newer. Bryan says the SL1 sensor and M sensor are just as good as the other current APS-C sensors. So it comes down to buttons and features. And maybe body form factor.
I want this lady to use exposure compensation and to control aperture. I am thinking RAW + JPEG so she can use the JPEGs herself and save the equally named RAWs in case I need to jump in and save an important image that's gone under- or overexposed. I'll want to create some picture styles that she can choose to get her Jpegs good straight from the camera. She doesn't seem like someone who likes to go PP her shots. Besides as a novice she'll need her focus to be on controlling the camera.



Feb 20, 2017 at 01:35 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Spend €450 wisely


rabbitmountain wrote:
What makes the Nikon D5200 preferable above the Canon 60D/650D? I'm all ears.


The main reason was image quality. The Canons are okay, but the Nikon was noticeably better at every metric. Unlike the higher end cameras where Nikon beats Canon at low ISO but Canon catches up at high ISO, the Nikon D5200 has less noise and better dynamic range at every ISO value compared to the 60D and 650D. Having shot food photography professionally with the D5200, the extra dynamic range was very useful for high-key shots where I'd expose for the highlights and then pull up the shadows where necessary. Plus it has a bit more resolution than the Canons, which while not a big deal for food and portraits is still nice to have.

With autofocus, the D5200 offers 39 autofocus points, which is handy for portraiture where you don't want to focus and recompose. The cross type points aren't as spread out as on the Canons though, which might be an issue in low light, but if you're shooting in such low light with these cameras the files will probably be too noisy to use anyway so generally I'd give the Nikon the edge here.

Finally, the Nikon just felt better and seemed to work better. I don't quite remember how the 60D felt, but when I took pictures it seemed very "chunky" for lack of a better word. Apologies to any 60D owners if I'm wrong in my recollection, but it just seemed like the shutter was loud, the rear screen slow to respond, and it just felt a bit awkward to use. As for the 600D, I liked how it worked, but it was very light and plasticky. The D5200 is plasticky too compared to even my D610, but it still has a bit more heft and solidness to it that makes it feel better than the Canon to my hands. Personal choice, of course, but I just found the Canons felt a little more toy-like. But if you want something really light, that might be a plus.




Feb 20, 2017 at 02:22 PM
BSPhotog
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Spend €450 wisely


I don't see any combination of gear listed here that you could get for $400USD from a camera store. Maybe purchasing on the buy/sell forum here, but even that is a stretch.


For Nikon, D5100-D5300 would work. 35 f/1.8G DX if she's needing just one multi-purpose lens. Again, though, you'd be hard pressed to find those things for your budget from a camera store.



Feb 20, 2017 at 03:11 PM
crteach
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Spend €450 wisely


Does she need an articulating screen? In my mind it might be helpful in some ways if she is doing food photos.


Feb 20, 2017 at 03:24 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Spend €450 wisely


She probably won't need the D5300 over the D3300, as a novice I suppose 11 AF points is plenty. She'll be using centre point anyway at first. As IQ is the same I think the D3300 will be perfect. Can be had under €450.

What bugs me is that I can't seem to find a good Nikon 50/1.8 lens. I really want her to get great portraits and my idea is that a 50mm FL on crop is right for portraits and also the 1.8 shooting @2.5 will help blurring the background and at the same time keep the ISO down. I don't want her to start using popup flash in darker conditions. For Nikon, is it the 60/1.8G that I need? Is that the lens type without the aperture ring? Can't seem to find one at the store.

Never mind. I found out it's over €220 new. That's almost 250 usd. Canons nifty fifty is just over €110, half the price. This speaks for a Canon body. There are nifty fifties to be had used for under €50.


Edited on Feb 20, 2017 at 03:45 PM · View previous versions



Feb 20, 2017 at 03:41 PM
BSPhotog
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Spend €450 wisely


rabbitmountain wrote:
She probably won't need the D5300 over the D3300, as a novice I suppose 11 AF points is plenty. She'll be using centre point anyway at first. As IQ is the same I think the D3300 will be perfect. Can be had under €450.

What bugs me is that I can't seem to find a good Nikon 50/1.8 lens. I really want her to get great portraits and my idea is that a 50mm FL on crop is right for portraits and also the 1.8 shooting @2.5 will help blurring the background and at the same time keep the ISO
...Show more

50MM F/1.8G is what you'd want. It will AF on the D3X00 bodies and is relatively inexpensive. The older 1.8D will only AF with the D7x00 and higher bodies that have an AF motor built in. There is a 60mm f/2.8G that would work, but out of budget for sure.



Feb 20, 2017 at 03:44 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Spend €450 wisely


Hi Ben, yes the 50/1.8G for €220 is relatively inexpensive for high end dSLR users like us, but it's nearly half her total budget I would really like her to have a 50/1.8 and I doubt she will spend 220 on just a lens.

Will need to think about this now...



Feb 20, 2017 at 04:10 PM
BSPhotog
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Spend €450 wisely


rabbitmountain wrote:
Hi Ben, yes the 50/1.8G for €220 is relatively inexpensive for high end dSLR users like us, but it's nearly half her total budget I would really like her to have a 50/1.8 and I doubt she will spend 220 on just a lens.

Will need to think about this now...


Yeah, that was my point in my first post. $400 could probably get your one lens and a body of some kind, but not 2 lenses.



Feb 20, 2017 at 04:53 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Spend €450 wisely


Hmm, forgot that it was at a store. Yeah, that'll be more expensive than buying from other photographers. What store is it for?


Feb 20, 2017 at 05:19 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Spend €450 wisely


The gift certificate is for a Dutch store called kamera express. And it's not that this is a gift or present. Probably something got returned and the store refused to pay out cash and issued a gift certificate instead to assure the return business. A common thing in the Netherlands.

Edited on Feb 21, 2017 at 10:48 AM · View previous versions



Feb 20, 2017 at 07:13 PM
Lauchlan Toal
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Spend €450 wisely


rabbitmountain wrote:
The gift certificate is for a Dutch store called kamera express. And it's not that this is a gift or present. Probably something got returned and the store refused to pay out cash and wrote a gift certificate instead to assure the return business. A common thing in the Netherlands.


Makes sense. Alright, I just had a look at their store. Looks like your best bet might be the 100D + 18-55 IS STM for €394, with the Canon 50mm f1.8 STM thrown in for €119 (minus €20 I think when you buy it with the camera body, if I'm guessing at what they're saying right).

So that's €513 or €493 if I guessed the rebate correctly.

You could save some money by going with either the 1200D or 1300D. If you want longer battery life both the 1200D and 1300D will help there, and the 1300D has built in wi-fi, but you sacrifice features like the touch screen and higher resolution screen of the 100D, the faster frames per second in continuous shooting, and a few other things that may or may not matter.

You could also save some money by picking a different 18-55 lens, but you'll sacrifice some image quality, maybe lose image stabilization depending on the lens, and possibly have worse autofocus performance.

So if you can spare the extra €50 or so over the budget, go for the kit listed above, if not see what features matter the least and pick cheaper gear accordingly.

You may also find some used gear at the store that they don't list on their site. I didn't see anything used that looked decent, but if you're going into the store it's worth asking if they have any used gear that's not on the site.



Feb 20, 2017 at 07:58 PM
vitalishe
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Spend €450 wisely


Tony Northrup has very nice videos specifically about selecting entry level DSLRs.

My reconendation would be between D3200, D5200 and D5300 with the kit 18-55 lens. I would suggest waiting with buying the second lens. Any beginner will already be overwhelmed with the kit setup. It will be many months before they are ready to switch from auto mode.



Feb 21, 2017 at 03:51 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Spend €450 wisely


vitalishe wrote:
Tony Northrup has very nice videos specifically about selecting entry level DSLRs.

My reconendation would be between D3200, D5200 and D5300 with the kit 18-55 lens. I would suggest waiting with buying the second lens. Any beginner will already be overwhelmed with the kit setup. It will be many months before they are ready to switch from auto mode.


Well the problem is such that if she goes Nikon, there will most certainly not be the purchase of the 50/1.8G. Not ever. Because it's €220. The Canon version is half the price *and* it's available in abundance used for way below 100.

Thanks for recommending Tony Northrup. I was put off by some things he said about the pro level dSLRs, so it's hard to keep an open mind. But I may check them out.

Thanks,
Ralph



Feb 23, 2017 at 08:16 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Spend €450 wisely


Interesting development. Today I took my 5DsR to the lady to show her the possibilities of using the 50/1.8 and shallow DoF. She was put off by the optical viewfinder, said she vastly preferred Live View because it shows the exact effect of exposure and zooming in helps with manual focusing.

She owns an Olympus compact camera, with what looks like a mirror box but which is an EVF. She always uses the back LCD.

This makes me reconsider. I suppose a system camera like Eos M (or any brand really) would make more sense. She could have it compact and still have the optional wide lens selection of the brand. A Canon M3 with 18-55IS would be a good option at €449. If she adds a 50/1.8 for €119 it's done.
She also wants to do landscapes and feels her current Olympus isn't wide enough. If this is very important to her she could consider adding a 10-20mm range EF-S to go with it.

Not sure which brand is the current sweet spot for this level. Any ideas?



Feb 24, 2017 at 05:41 AM
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