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Archive 2017 · How to do frogs better?

  
 
hrossm
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · How to do frogs better?


I'm pretty much at the limits of what I know how to do with my current gear so looking for suggestions for techniques or kit to do better.

Existing gear allows this:-



From which I can extract this:-



Taken handheld (actually balancing on my knee) as I can't be sure where the critters will appear in the pond so a tripod is a bit cumbersome. Also they are very jumpy so will dive if I make much movement. Looking at the exposure settings I could have gone another f stop down for a bit more DoF but that's all I can think of technique-wise.

Kit used was Sony A7RII, fringer adapter and Contax N 70-300 at its macro setting (300mm, 1:4). I don't think they will tolerate me getting closer so my 80mm 1:2 macro is probably a non-starter and my Tamron 500mm mirror which will do 1:3 is a fixed f8 so will struggle for DoF.

Any sensible suggestions welcome please, or am I at the limits of what is possible?



Feb 19, 2017 at 03:05 AM
surfnron
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · How to do frogs better?


You could try an extension tube with one of your longer lenses. That will reduce the MFD so that you can get closer and increase magnification. Of course the "get closer" part might be a problem... ~ Ron


Feb 19, 2017 at 08:01 AM
morris
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · How to do frogs better?


I agree with Ron regarding using a longer lens as more working room will make it easier. Also, consider manual exposure so that the varying background does not cause huge swings. Last you could try some fill flash to avoid problems caused by shadows.

Moris



Feb 19, 2017 at 08:49 AM
bgorum
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · How to do frogs better?


Try shooting at night. I've often found that frogs that are very wary during the day are much more approachable at night. You'll need flash of course and some way of illuminating the frogs for focusing. I find dim headlamps work best. Frogs will often turn away from a bight light. I think a red light light might be even better, but I've yet to find one bright enough to allow me to focus accurately. Another nice thing about working with them at night is that they tend to be more active then, so you have better chances to document interesting behavior, (calling, mating, males scuffling, feeding, etc.), than you do during the day.


Feb 19, 2017 at 09:21 AM
hrossm
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · How to do frogs better?


Thank you all for the help so far, I've a dedicated flash so can try that for sure.


Feb 19, 2017 at 10:33 AM
steve_a_reno
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · How to do frogs better?


I had a bull frog show up in my backyard pond that I could touch without it hopping away. I would say early morning is also a good time. Being cold blooded they need to get out of the water to warm up and will approach sunny spots on the shore. This may help in positioning yourself where the frogs will go rather than chasing them around. If you don't move they won't see you.


Feb 19, 2017 at 01:33 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · How to do frogs better?


You just need more patience and 100mm longer lens. Neither flash nor manual exposure would have made your shot any better. Shooting at night is hardly a "sensible suggestion".

Maybe some more post-processing: crop, NR on background, and reduce highlights.

Will remove image if you want.

Tony







Feb 19, 2017 at 01:54 PM
rw11
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · How to do frogs better?


mono-pod or a mirrorless with 5,7,gazillion axis stabilization

if you have time, the Panny system allows focus stacking in camera; otherwise most cameras allow this in Pshop or maybe LR

try some shots from 1/4 to the side

a friend studies frogs and is an xlnt amateur photographer - he often has problems with specular highlights (in his lab) - if you ever use aquaria then a pol. filter on the light source and on the camera can be used



Feb 19, 2017 at 02:11 PM
bgorum
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · How to do frogs better?


Imagemaster wrote:
You just need more patience and 100mm longer lens. Neither flash nor manual exposure would have made your shot any better. Shooting at night is hardly a "sensible suggestion".

Maybe some more post-processing: crop, NR on background, and reduce highlights.

Will remove image if you want.

Tony


Tony,

I have considerable experience photographing frogs and toads, and yes, shooting at night is a "sensible suggestion" for the reasons I stated. Have you ever actually photographed these animals?



Feb 19, 2017 at 02:41 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · How to do frogs better?


bgorum wrote:
Tony,

I have considerable experience photographing frogs and toads, and yes, shooting at night is a "sensible suggestion" for the reasons I stated. Have you ever actually photographed these animals?


Well if you think that is a sensible suggestion for someone that is having trouble shooting frogs in daylight, that is your opinion. IMO, it is much easier and more sensible to photograph frogs in natural daylight, instead of skulking around at night with a flash.



















Feb 19, 2017 at 03:26 PM
bgorum
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · How to do frogs better?


I have to admit, that first Bullfrog shot is pretty sweet! However, frogs are still largely nocturnal animals, (maybe not as much in British Columbia as where I live), and many of the warier species are more easily approached at night. Being nocturnal, night is also the best time to document behavior and natural history. A few examples-

[url=https://500px.com/photo/149683401/calling-chihuahuan-desert-spadefoot-new-mexico-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/149683401/calling-chihuahuan-desert-spadefoot-new-mexico-by-bill-gorum]Calling Chihuahuan Desert Spadefoot, New Mexico. by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/142874467/amplectant-couch-s-spadefoots-scaphiopus-couchii-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/142874467/amplectant-couch-s-spadefoots-scaphiopus-couchii-by-bill-gorum]Amplectant Couch
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/136948829/grappling-male-chihuahuan-desert-spadefoots-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/136948829/grappling-male-chihuahuan-desert-spadefoots-by-bill-gorum]Grappling male Chihuahuan Desert Spadefoots. by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/131378121/checkered-garter-snake-preying-on-a-spadefoot-toad-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/131378121/checkered-garter-snake-preying-on-a-spadefoot-toad-by-bill-gorum]Checkered Garter Snake preying on a Spadefoot Toad by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/131271209/couch-spadefoot-male-calling-in-the-rain-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/131271209/couch-spadefoot-male-calling-in-the-rain-by-bill-gorum]Couch Spadefoot male calling in the rain. by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/130594527/calling-male-red-spotted-toad-anaxyrus-punctatus-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/130594527/calling-male-red-spotted-toad-anaxyrus-punctatus-by-bill-gorum]Calling male Red-spotted Toad, Anaxyrus punctatus. by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]

[url=https://500px.com/photo/117124571/calling-male-dwarf-american-toad-oklahoma-by-bill-gorum]
[/url]
[url=https://500px.com/photo/117124571/calling-male-dwarf-american-toad-oklahoma-by-bill-gorum]Calling male Dwarf American Toad, Oklahoma. by Bill Gorum on 500px.com
[/url]




Feb 19, 2017 at 10:52 PM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · How to do frogs better?


bgorum wrote:
I have to admit, that first Bullfrog shot is pretty sweet! However, frogs are still largely nocturnal animals, (maybe not as much in British Columbia as where I live), and many of the warier species are more easily approached at night. Being nocturnal, night is also the best time to document behavior and natural history.


Maybe try PM'ing the OP to see if he really wants to go to the same trouble as you to simply capture some images of frogs, without being interested in documenting behaviour and natural history.

I also live in BC (maybe you should change your Profile), and it is dark at night.

Again, what makes you think the OP wants to go shooting at night just because you do?

Even the mink around here approach the frogs during daylight.







Feb 20, 2017 at 12:59 AM
mogul
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · How to do frogs better?


I am going to be a spoiler here, Bull Frogs are an abomination (though a neat frog)...lets us do our native frogs and show them in the best light possible.


Feb 20, 2017 at 01:25 AM
Imagemaster
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · How to do frogs better?


A frog is a frog is a frog. I could care less what kind of frog it is. Native or invasive, it is called evolution.

I guess you could get Trump to boot all the Bullfrogs out of the U.S. But then you might get border-hoppers from Canada and Mexico.



Feb 20, 2017 at 02:20 AM
hrossm
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · How to do frogs better?


Imagemaster wrote:
You just need more patience and 100mm longer lens. Neither flash nor manual exposure would have made your shot any better. Shooting at night is hardly a "sensible suggestion".

Maybe some more post-processing: crop, NR on background, and reduce highlights.

Will remove image if you want.

Tony


More post processing has more effect than I realised, good shout.

I think flash could help as February in the UK is often gloomy and the frogs were active in the half light when I went out to top up the bird feeders this morning but the longer lens or extension tube to get the frog larger in the image is the main way to go, shame my tubes are for my C/Y lenses where I don't have anything long to put them on. I might try the 500mm mirror and see what DoF I get. The focus stacking idea may help if they are stationary as in my attempt above.

I'll probably use the flash to get a decent shutter speed.




Feb 20, 2017 at 02:51 AM
RZPhotoNL
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · How to do frogs better?


I love photographing frogs. I wrote an article about the gear I use:
http://ronaldzimmerman.nl/recommended-gear-guide-herpetological-photography/

I will continue to update my article.

About the skills,just be patient. Frogs are scared of shadows blocking their light because that might be a dangerous predator. So approach them low to the ground without making a shadow over them. Also move slow.
When they are gone, they always come back to breath.



Feb 20, 2017 at 07:48 AM
hrossm
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · How to do frogs better?


RZPhotoNL wrote:
I love photographing frogs. I wrote an article about the gear I use:
http://ronaldzimmerman.nl/recommended-gear-guide-herpetological-photography/

I will continue to update my article.

About the skills,just be patient. Frogs are scared of shadows blocking their light because that might be a dangerous predator. So approach them low to the ground without making a shadow over them. Also move slow.
When they are gone, they always come back to breath.


Thanks for the link, your 100-400 looks a good choice but there isn't a Sony FE equivalent and, anyway, do I want a lens just for this one task?

I just tried the Tamron 500 as an experiment but sharpness is an issue, even with the in-body IS and ISO 1000 to give a 1/400 shutter. Could just be the quality of the lens, it wasn't expensive even back in the day when it was first made. So I think I have to follow the extension tube route - it will be cheap and with improved stalking technique and, maybe, flash I hope it will be good enough for me.




Feb 20, 2017 at 10:13 AM
bgorum
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · How to do frogs better?


Imagemaster wrote:
Maybe try PM'ing the OP to see if he really wants to go to the same trouble as you to simply capture some images of frogs, without being interested in documenting behaviour and natural history.

I also live in BC (maybe you should change your Profile), and it is dark at night.

Again, what makes you think the OP wants to go shooting at night just because you do?

Even the mink around here approach the frogs during daylight.


Yes, I realize you live in BC. I do not. My profile is correct. Re-read what I said above. The OP asked how to take better frog pictures. One of the ways of making pictures of wildlife better is to make them more interesting by actually photographing them doing something. I think I have as much right to share my ideas as anyone else here does. Apparently though, I've committed the Internet's greatest sin and run up against someone's ego. My bad. None of this conversation between you and I is constructive or useful anymore.



Feb 20, 2017 at 10:23 AM
hrossm
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · How to do frogs better?


Multiquote doesn't seem to work but I did try to include all the above post in my reply which applies to both.

bgorum wrote:
Yes, I realize you live in BC. I do not. My profile is correct. Re-read what I said above. The OP asked how to take better frog pictures. One of the ways of making pictures of wildlife better is to make them more interesting by actually photographing them doing something. I think I have as much right to share my ideas as anyone else here does. Apparently though, I've committed the Internet's greatest sin and run up against someone's ego. My bad. None of this conversation between you and I is constructive or useful anymore.


I'm after suggestions, not arguments please!

All suggestions are helpful, even if I discard them as impractical or expensive for me that's my choice.




Feb 20, 2017 at 10:31 AM





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