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Archive 2017 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question

  
 
goatsby
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Good evening everyone,

Most of us Leica folks are known to each other on the Board and I wanted to reach out to you (and anyone else who may have input) about a new user who bought a Leica lens from me. I think the guy checks out, but wanted to see if there are others on the board who may have dealt or are dealing with him. PM me for the user name as I don't want to create a witch hunt, just want to do my due diligence before shipping the lens.

My concerns are he is a new user (which is not a bad thing), asked me to ship to an unconfirmed US address and is a non-US unverified sender. The payment is cleared to ship, but seller protection is only for the non-US address which I am not shipping to.

I've been here for a long time and have seen some bad stuff, and thankfully thus far have steered clear. From my interaction with this person it seems legit, but a few red flags have me concerned.

Thanks all for your help!

Adam



Feb 14, 2017 at 08:28 PM
denisavu
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


I would at least have him verify his PayPal address. Without feedback here or another major photo site, I would be leery until he does the minimum diligence to allow us to develop any trust in him.


Feb 14, 2017 at 08:33 PM
pageone
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Is he in Mexico by chance?

Only ship to the confirmed address to be safe. If anyone asks you to ship to an address other than the one listed in Paypal, they usually have ulterior motives.



Feb 14, 2017 at 08:47 PM
mjbetch
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


pageone wrote:
Is he in Mexico by chance?

Only ship to the confirmed address to be safe. If anyone asks you to ship to an address other than the one listed in Paypal, they usually have ulterior motives.


I wouldn't say usually.

There have been a few times where I was in college and I requested to have a seller ship to my apartment at school rather than my home/confirmed address.



Feb 14, 2017 at 09:03 PM
dog rocket
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


I got in a bind once because my Paypal verified address is a PO Box. The USPS does not deliver to my house and my Credit Card billing address is my PO Box, so there you go. The seller wanted to deliver it by UPS or Fedex and he wouldn't ship to my home address since it wasn't confirmed. I had over 60 feedback rating at the time... it's the first and last time I've had such an issue. We parted ways without a deal. The moral of the story is that contrary to what pageone says (with a whopping feedback of 3! ), it's not always so cut and dry.

Since your buyer has no feedback and you have many, the answer is simple. You are a trusted seller and he is a buyer with no feedback, therefore have him trust you instead of you trusting him: have him send the payment as GIFT. Or have him send you a money order like the good old days...

Edited on Feb 14, 2017 at 09:17 PM · View previous versions



Feb 14, 2017 at 09:12 PM
pageone
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


mjbetch wrote:
I wouldn't say usually.

There have been a few times where I was in college and I requested to have a seller ship to my apartment at school rather than my home/confirmed address.


Usually still leaves wiggle room for situations like that. But given this circumstance, the buyer being outside of the country, I doubt he's a college student buying a Leica lens

I only chimed in because today, a new user from Mexico asked to buy a lens from me and ship to his friend in Texas. He said his "Friend" would only be there until tomorrow so it would have to be overnighted. Scammers usually want to get the product in their hands as fast as possible, so there were multiple red flags in that scenario. It's best to steer clear of shipping to third party addresses. If the person is really on the up-and-up, they can confirm their new address with Paypal before asking you to ship expensive items.



Feb 14, 2017 at 09:17 PM
goatsby
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Thanks for the replies, good advice as always! This guys is from Thailand, not Mexico pageone.


Feb 14, 2017 at 09:29 PM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


dog rocket wrote:
I got in a bind once because my Paypal verified address is a PO Box. The USPS does not deliver to my house and my Credit Card billing address is my PO Box, so there you go. The seller wanted to deliver it by UPS or Fedex and he wouldn't ship to my home address since it wasn't confirmed. I had over 60 feedback rating at the time... it's the first and last time I've had such an issue. We parted ways without a deal. The moral of the story is that contrary to what pageone says (with a
...Show more

Hey DR,
my local post office offers a solution for a situation like yours - and mine. I had UPS, Fedex and DHL delivering to my pobox even with signature required.
How?my post office gave me a form authorizing them to sign in my behalf, and my address is now the same as the business itself, with the po number added with # afterwards.
so instead of just pob123 in Anycity USA, is now 1, main st #123 Anycity USAthey deliver to the counter, and sign in my behalf - only drawback, is having to pick up the package during business hours, as they leave a notice in the pobox
ask your postmaster....
.

Edited on Feb 16, 2017 at 02:39 AM · View previous versions



Feb 14, 2017 at 09:32 PM
edwin_sn
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


dog rocket wrote:
...
Since your buyer has no feedback and you have many, the answer is simple. You are a trusted seller and he is a buyer with no feedback, therefore have him trust you instead of you trusting him: have him send the payment as GIFT. Or have him send you a money order like the good old days...


I agree with DR here. Thats what I did when I started buying here. I ask my sellers to ship the item to NY which is not my verified paypal address while I'm transacting from the Philippines, and I did my share so as to make my seller trust me by sending my payment either as gift or bank transfer. I've bought a 50/.95 nocti and a new M240 in this forum by doing that. I may only have 35 positive feedbacks here but I've transacted here more than that. And because of that I have somehow earned the trust from forum members.

Let your buyer do it that way since he has no feedback yet and you have a great one, so he need not worry.




Feb 14, 2017 at 10:06 PM
RickPerry
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Adam,

Just ask for 'gift' payment ..due to the circumstances.. If he refuses .. Then forget about it.

Rick



Feb 15, 2017 at 04:48 AM
mitesh
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Nice to see a lot of good intentioned people offering assistance, but I fear that those who have suggested accepting payment as "gift" may be creating a false sense of security for the seller (OP). It's not a foolproof way to accept riskless payment.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1472779/0#13899787

Not implying that this is what is going on in this case, but just offering it as information to be considered.



Feb 15, 2017 at 07:47 AM
r2studios
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


I know I don't have a lot of feedback here but having bought and sold expensive high end camera gear and items from eBay, to Craigslist to PentaxForums since the 1999, I've experienced many different buyer scenarios including this one several times. The 1st time I was burnt by a buyer with a fraudulent card.

My advice would be to bypass this sale unless you can ship to a verified address in the states or via a site that offers some protection. There are a lot of red flags here so proceed with caution.

Good luck!



Feb 15, 2017 at 09:29 AM
dog rocket
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


mitesh wrote:
Nice to see a lot of good intentioned people offering assistance, but I fear that those who have suggested accepting payment as "gift" may be creating a false sense of security for the seller (OP). It's not a foolproof way to accept riskless payment.

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1472779/0#13899787

Not implying that this is what is going on in this case, but just offering it as information to be considered.


Hmmm... if this is a true scenario (is it? or is it speculation?) then you always have the option of asking for a money order or bank check. Again, his risk is low based on your feedback.

We seem to forget that we survived somehow before the days of obscene convenience!




Feb 15, 2017 at 02:39 PM
pageone
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Mitesh is absolutely correct. You can still pay via Paypal Gift using a credit card, Paypal charges the fee to the sender. A scammer could indeed use a stolen credit card for this purpose. When in doubt, go with your gut. If you're receiving any sort of unsecured payment with no protection from Paypal, use extreme caution. Even if they send you a money order or cashier's check, make sure it has ample time to clear before you ship.

Back in the 2000s when I sold Apple computer equipment on eBay as a hobby, I received a seemingly legitimate cashier's check from a mainland bank. I deposited the check, it cleared immediately because it's treated the same as cash, and I shipped the computer. A few days later, the funds were pulled from my bank because the cashier's check was fraudulent. My bank only discovered this when it was routed back to the issuing bank for payment. Luckily I was able to call FedEx and re-route the package back to me. All this to say, make sure any form of paper payment *actually* clears your bank (meaning your bank has been funded from the issuer) before shipping.



Feb 15, 2017 at 02:45 PM
dog rocket
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


Oh gawd, now a money order is too risky. This is getting way too trade-ophobic for me. Seriously, you guys that are over-the-top cautious should not be buying or selling goods online. When you meet someone who has cash in hand do you put the money up to the light and look for the threads in the bills?

There's always risk. You mitigate it to your comfort level. If you can't reach that, then you call it off. No harm, no foul.

To be honest, my dealings are 90% based on the relationship I build with the buyer/seller during the transaction process. You can tell a great deal of one's integrity in a back-and-forth conversation. That hasn't failed me yet. That's why FM is 1000% better than eBay for me.

Maybe you should have him send cash with a notary stamp and a copy of his birth certificate. Don't forget to have him vetted through homeland security... you don't want that cash blowing up in your face!

pageone, I know you mean well but dude, you're gonna be stuck on 3 for a long, long time.



Feb 15, 2017 at 02:57 PM
pageone
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


dog rocket wrote:
Oh gawd, now a money order is too risky. This is getting way too trade-ophobic for me. Seriously, you guys that are over-the-top cautious should not be buying or selling goods online. When you meet someone who has cash in hand do you put the money up to the light and look for the threads in the bills?

There's always risk. You mitigate it to your comfort level. If you can't reach that, then you call it off. No harm, no foul.

To be honest, my dealings are 90% based on the relationship I build with the buyer/seller during the transaction
...Show more

Well, I'm not in this thread to get in a pissing contest. I popped in to share some real world experience knowledge with the OP. I may have a 3 here (for now), but I cut my teeth in trading online in 2004 and now have a 100% positive eBay rating of 2200+. Just because your intuition hasn't failed you yet in 92 transactions, doesn't mean it won't. It's absolutely irresponsible of you to be so cavalier when it concerns someone else's money, an international buyer, and shipping to a third party in the states.



Feb 15, 2017 at 04:44 PM
goatsby
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


First, I appreciate everyone's input. Let's not denigrate our sense of community, you all have very valid points.

UPDATE: The new member saw this post and sent a very long and detailed email which included references and alternate contact information. We communicated a few times more and I felt comfortable enough to move forward with the deal. There is always a risk in dealing online (and in person as Craigslist victims will say), so we try to mitigate the risks as much as possible and hope it works out. If everything goes as planned, we will have a nice new member to deal with. If not, well...

Thanks again!

Adam



Feb 15, 2017 at 05:53 PM
dog rocket
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


pageone wrote:
Well, I'm not in this thread to get in a pissing contest. I popped in to share some real world experience knowledge with the OP. I may have a 3 here (for now), but I cut my teeth in trading online in 2004 and now have a 100% positive eBay rating of 2200+. Just because your intuition hasn't failed you yet in 92 transactions, doesn't mean it won't. It's absolutely irresponsible of you to be so cavalier when it concerns someone else's money, an international buyer, and shipping to a third party in the states.


So recommending to the OP that he make the buyer assume the risks as much as possible is cavalier and irresponsible? I stand by my statement that all deals are a risk to some extent. If you cannot trust anyone to some extent, then you have no business trading... especially here where many of us come to avoid the eBay type mentality. So... why are you here then?




Feb 15, 2017 at 06:00 PM
pageone
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · LEICA folks: New user / buyer question


goatsby wrote:
First, I appreciate everyone's input. Let's not denigrate our sense of community, you all have very valid points.

UPDATE: The new member saw this post and sent a very long and detailed email which included references and alternate contact information. We communicated a few times more and I felt comfortable enough to move forward with the deal. There is always a risk in dealing online (and in person as Craigslist victims will say), so we try to mitigate the risks as much as possible and hope it works out. If everything goes as planned, we will have a nice new member
...Show more

Great! Hope it all works out for you Adam.



Feb 15, 2017 at 06:46 PM





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