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Archive 2017 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M

  
 
rsrsrs
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


In German forums many people are selling their M Body because
of buying the new M10
And many of them are not much used. Like this one:

Topzustand , keine Kratzer oder sonstige Macken !!
weniger als 1500 Auslösungen
In Originalverpackung mit allem Zubehör wie bei Neukauf
Rechnung vom Neukauf wird natürlich mitgeliefert
Preis : 4600 Euro inkl. versichertem Versand

So every "klick!" he made did cost 3 euro.
somehow.
i think that really strange ...



Feb 08, 2017 at 09:50 AM
Dudewithoutape
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


It's just like any other consumer product. Some actually use their, others it's just a fashion statement (I.e. used to show off). Even if his shots cost him 3 Euro each, it doesn't mean he didn't get his"value" out of it.


Feb 08, 2017 at 09:58 AM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


I think most M owners are amateurs, and thus owning multiple bodies is not an interesting option. If you take me for example, I always sell the older body when I buy a new one. My current camera is the M262, 6 months old, and currently around 1700 clicks. If I am to upgrade to the M10 now, I would be in a similar situation to the seller mentioned in the op. Perhaps for this reason I have decided not to upgrade now but I'm not sure how long I can resist.


Feb 08, 2017 at 10:13 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


I don't find it strange - honestly, the M10 is also for me the first "real" digital Leica M which I would consider. From what I am reading - and here I am lacking personal experience because I never shot with a M240 or M262 - the M10 is now a fairly mature product with a decent round-up in technology which wasn't so much the case with earlier digital M models. Of course now it is also a bit of a hype since the camera was just released, and Leica did a good job on fulfilling many expectations with the M10.

I suspect in a year or so it will be a good time to grab a well maintained M240 for a more reasonable price tag, too.



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:37 AM
timde
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


Actually, if he sells the camera, then each click was costing about 1 euro.

Never-the-less, its his money should he should do with it as he wishes. For reference, a Sofort camera costs 1,30 per click, and a film camera is around 0,40 per click (and you don't need a computer to view the images ...).

Makes you wonder, if we really progress that much ...



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:42 AM
Bacalhau
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


same thing happens with any other camera brand - but as othersabove said, between a second body and fashion statement there is not much room left when the chance to display the newest gadget arises.
A bit different bit, but same mentally with smartphones...

I will keep my M8, but see no point of upgrading for the M10 - I have a different type of setup for high iso and such

Now, if I did not have a m240, then I ...would wait till prices drop quite a bit.
For me the Leica is a way to slow me down, and enjoy again B&W, street photography, think before press the shutter...things like that
Cameras loose a lot of value, way more than lenses as we all know.

@ retrifocus - and yet if you go to some leica forums, the "purists" are having a fit (sort of speaking)

Edited on Feb 08, 2017 at 12:46 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:48 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


Bacalhau wrote:
@ retrifocus - and yet if you go to some leica forums, the "purists" are having a fit (sort of speaking)


Yep, I am not following all the discussions about the M10 - but my impression is that many are in reality worried losing money by selling their actual M version to get the new M10, and that these used camera prices could drop further. Some M9 and M240 users seem very vocal in this regard and try to make "their" current system look as good (and better) as possible. So I take all these threads in the Leica forum with a grain of salt.

For me personally the M10 is > $3K over the limit of what I would invest as maximum amount for a new digital camera. I continue using my M6 and M7 cameras instead



Feb 08, 2017 at 12:35 PM
flash
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


I said no to one of the first M10's. Would have had it first day. I have a type 240. I've had it for some time and have shot quite a bit with it. It's a great camera and makes great images *if* the monkey holding it has his shit together. I don't need an M10. It won't do anything to enhance my photography in any way. Most of the improvements in the M10 are incremental and looked at separately don't make a huge difference to using the camera. No one needs an M10.

Then I stupidly played with one......

My order is now in but I'll have to wait. Likely I'll keep my M-P for a while. But I can afford it and the M10 really is an amazing camera IF you're into rangefinders.

Should have said yes on day one...

Gordon



Feb 08, 2017 at 03:01 PM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


That's more expensive than film.

I'm waiting for a fat m8 to be affordable.



Feb 08, 2017 at 06:04 PM
peter_n
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


Many Leica digital body owners have used M film bodies and take some care with each exposure. I use three film M bodies and so far have not bought a digital M. However I've owned a Sony mirrorless for the last 4+ years and have just over 3000 clicks on it. I still have the film mindset when I'm shooting with the Sony. Maybe a common rationale for low click Leicas?

Having said all that, the M10 is the first digital Leica that looks like it might be worth it. If it's durable I might be tempted.



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:21 PM
chez
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


Its not how many images you can rattle off...its how many images turn into great prints. Many times I come back with less than 10 images from an outing. Just because you can does not mean you should.


Feb 08, 2017 at 10:26 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


timde wrote:
Actually, if he sells the camera, then each click was costing about 1 euro.

Never-the-less, its his money should he should do with it as he wishes. For reference, a Sofort camera costs 1,30 per click, and a film camera is around 0,40 per click (and you don't need a computer to view the images ...).

Makes you wonder, if we really progress that much ...


Wait until the camera companies take a page from Adobe and offer cameras on a subscription basis... Shutter only works while the subscription is paid and rate based on actuation volume. I would be in trouble.

And don't think they haven't thought about this....

That said, there would be huge backlash, rightfully so.

Anyway, I shoot a lot. I grew up with film. In some ways digital was liberating, but the possibility of shooting endlessly is also a greater editing burden. So each of us find a suitable compromise.

If some M9/M240 owners are worried about resale, they must be living in the past (2009-2011) when there was a general shortage of Leica product available new and second handprices were as high, or higher than new. This would have been reassuring for some to jump into Leica since loss would be minimal on resale. But then Leica addressed demand with sufficient supply and resale prices have declined significantly. I would say back down to sane levels (at least relative to Leica's retail prices). While those hoping for high resale lose out, those looking to enter the Leica system now have more affordable options.

Edited on Feb 08, 2017 at 11:03 PM · View previous versions



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:50 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M



rscheffler wrote:
Wait until the camera companies take a page from Adobe and offer cameras on a subscription basis... Shutter only works while the subscription is paid and rate based on actuation volume. I would be in trouble.

And don't think they haven't thought about this....

That said, there would be huge backlash, rightfully so.

I actually think it's a good idea

This way we always get to use the latest model and we get a replacement body automatically when the camera needs maintenance.

But for your style of shooting, I can see how this could be a problem, Ron



Feb 08, 2017 at 10:58 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


I could see it being a good idea if it was done fairly. Of course, 'fair' is open to interpretation.

I actually heard this from a senior manager of one of the major camera manufacturers... With my DSLRs at least, I already pay a premium for the top pro body because I need some of the features and it has supposedly greater reliability (my 1DX is at 930K actuations and have replaced the shutter once, but otherwise it has been trouble-free). Perhaps with a camera like a 7D, I may have burned through a few by now, potentially equalizing the outlay without benefitting from some of the 1DX's superior features.

One proposal I was aware of but didn't come to fruition was a leasing arrangement by which the photographer would pay a monthly fee and periodically be upgraded to the current model as those became available.

I think this would work fine in that it would be a fixed monthly expense that can be budgeted and written off. The problem would come when wishing to exit the endless cycle. One would be without a camera despite having spent thousands during the lease period. This is obviously where outright ownership has benefits. One could go through lean times yet still have the necessary tools at hand to do the job.



Feb 08, 2017 at 11:13 PM
ken.vs.ryu
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


edwardkaraa wrote:
I actually think it's a good idea

This way we always get to use the latest model and we get a replacement body automatically when the camera needs maintenance.

But for your style of shooting, I can see how this could be a problem, Ron


camera restricta




Feb 08, 2017 at 11:32 PM
uhoh7
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


rsrsrs wrote:
In German forums many people are selling their M Body because
of buying the new M10
And many of them are not much used. Like this one:

Topzustand , keine Kratzer oder sonstige Macken !!
weniger als 1500 Auslösungen
In Originalverpackung mit allem Zubehör wie bei Neukauf
Rechnung vom Neukauf wird natürlich mitgeliefert
Preis : 4600 Euro inkl. versichertem Versand

So every "klick!" he made did cost 3 euro.
somehow.
i think that really strange ...


That's always been the case, like many say. Not only with Leica. You often see A7 hardly used.

I have a big telescope I have not used very often myself .

When I was looking for M9 in 2014, very easy to find, not only with under 2k clicks, but just back from Leica. Plus he carefully cleaned and oiled the Luigi half case after each use.

Now it's frightening




Feb 08, 2017 at 11:33 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


ken.vs.ryu wrote:
camera restricta



Excellent idea!

Curiously, it is for exactly the same reasons that I stopped shooting buildings and landscapes, and moved to people/street. You can photograph the same person or street everyday, and you would get something different each time.



Feb 08, 2017 at 11:41 PM
coogee
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


^ It's an interesting topic, I think Ray Davies nailed it in 1968 (49 years ago, ouch!)


People take pictures of each other, just to prove that they really existed...

The short film is a bit undermined to me by seeming a little smug and yet still being a social media/ sharing construct, exactly as the subject it questions - I'm not like everbody else.



M10. Leica. Sell/buy. This is just consumerism, nothing to do with photography, far less interesting topic to (special, unique) me

Despite the barrage of photographs and people - when the Kinks released The Village Green Preservation Society there were 3 BILLION less people on Earth! http://www.geohive.com/earth/his_history3.aspx , I think there's room for a few more photographs.

What you pay per click doesn't change anything about anything, time is the fire in which we burn.



Feb 09, 2017 at 12:04 AM
retrofocus
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


rscheffler wrote:
If some M9/M240 owners are worried about resale, they must be living in the past (2009-2011) when there was a general shortage of Leica product available new and second handprices were as high, or higher than new. This would have been reassuring for some to jump into Leica since loss would be minimal on resale. But then Leica addressed demand with sufficient supply and resale prices have declined significantly. I would say back down to sane levels (at least relative to Leica's retail prices). While those hoping for high resale lose out, those looking to enter the Leica system now
...Show more

In general this is true but in recent months prices for the used M9 for example have risen again - I believe due to the made belief that the M9 gives something "special" with its CCD sensor which the later digital Ms didn't do. This was not my impression when I tested this camera a few weeks back (I simply found it technically outdated which I posted earlier here in this forum). Also I have seen later film M cameras rising in price, but here likely caused by higher demand in them since the niche of film photographers is growing again.



Feb 09, 2017 at 06:55 AM
simonedf
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Leica strange. So many people are selling their digital M


I used to have a M6 "classic" and now I have a M7 and a Bessa R2A, but I was never interested in digital Leicas. However, I think that with the M10 they hit all the right spots and it's the first one I'm considering purchasing.


Feb 09, 2017 at 12:23 PM
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