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Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8
  
 
ecarlino
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p.9 #1 · p.9 #1 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Obviously, but I know traveling throughout Vietnam and Cambodia I left my 70-200 in my pack as the streets and markets were just to narrow to use anything longer than say 35 or lower. I'm not knocking the 100mm for environmental portraits...I'm just saying it is not possible to use that focal lengths in many countries as the cities are very old with narrow crowded streets.


narrow streets, like Venice:

105mm equiv foc len:






155mm:






180mm equiv:






OK, a bit wider @ 70mm:








Feb 17, 2017 at 03:32 PM
chez
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p.9 #2 · p.9 #2 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


Or maybe narrow alleys and markets like these in Vietnam shot with either 35mm or 28mm. Not a chance to use a short tele here.

I love to get the feel in an image like you are right there within the image...rather than something shot from far away like you are standing on the outside looking in.



















Feb 17, 2017 at 03:49 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #3 · p.9 #3 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Or maybe narrow alleys and markets like these in Vietnam shot with either 35mm or 28mm. Not a chance to use a short tele here.


certainly there are times when wider is better or even necessary - that's a lot different than your original intent which was anything longer than 35 wasn't useful (or that a 100mm wasn't useful)



Feb 17, 2017 at 03:59 PM
chez
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p.9 #4 · p.9 #4 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
certainly there are times when wider is better or even necessary - that's a lot different than your original intent which was anything longer than 35 wasn't useful (or that a 100mm wasn't useful)


But the longer the focal length, the less intimate the environmental photo.

Oh...I never said 100mm was not useful...it's just faced with reality, I could not use my feel zoom.



Feb 17, 2017 at 04:08 PM
Matt Grum
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p.9 #5 · p.9 #5 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


This post has some better examples of the difference between STM and normal lenses:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/2820818690/sony-fe-100mm-f2-8-stf-bokeh-demystified



Feb 17, 2017 at 04:13 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #6 · p.9 #6 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
But the longer the focal length, the less intimate the environmental photo.


i've wasted too much time today trying to illustrate the narrow-mindedness of your opinions; i'm not even going to address this one, other than to say that there are a million examples to show that this statement is simply not true.

as with all photography, focal length choice starts with choosing a ratio between the distance between the camera and the subject compared to the distance to the background: based upon (among many other factors) desired compression and subject/background separation, choice aperture and dept of field, etc)

obviously if you're in a 10 foot square space, a 150mm lens isn't going to show much, but to state as a general rule that a longer focal length is less intimate is, well, whatever Chez, have a great wkend

i guess @ 110mm, this isn't "intimate" and doesn't give a sense of the environment we were in:








Feb 17, 2017 at 04:36 PM
chez
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p.9 #7 · p.9 #7 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


Ecarlino, really sorry you feel you wasted your time...and then wasted more by posting again. That example is not an environmental portrait as I don't feel like I'm emerged into the environment around the girl. It's an example where the longer focal lengths excel in portraits...classic portrait shot...but definitely not an intimate street photo.

Sure, you can use any lens to take environmental portraits, but with my experience if you are using longer focal lengths ( 100mm ) you limit your ability to get the shots. It is usually much easier to move closer to your subject than to back away. Many times you can't back away for physical reasons, and when you do sometimes you get distractions in the way like people or other elements entering your view. You also start to lose the intimacy of the environment the longer the focal length.

I just spent a half hour looking at the 2017 World Press photo contest winners...the press are good examples of photographers that shoot environmental photos as they try to tell a story of the subject within their environment.

There were about 50 winning photos and if you take out sports, I believe only 3 of the photos were shot with a focal length greater than 50mm, with the vast majority being between 20mm and 35mm. It's these wide focal lengths that allow you to get intimate with the subject and it's environment, to get images where the audience feels embedded within the photo.

I do take my 85 batis with me to get isolated photos of individuals, but if I want to focus on environmental portraits, it is my 35, 28 and now 25mm lenses that I will use.

Everybody is different and I'm sure there are people out there taking street photos with 500mm bazookas so whatever turns one's crank.



Feb 17, 2017 at 05:24 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #8 · p.9 #8 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Ecarlino, really sorry you feel you wasted your time...and then wasted more by posting again. That example is not an environmental portrait as I don't feel like I'm emerged into the environment around the girl. It's an example where the longer focal lengths excel in portraits...classic portrait shot...but definitely not an intimate street photo.

Sure, you can use any lens to take environmental portraits, but with my experience if you are using longer focal lengths ( 100mm ) you limit your ability to get the shots. It is usually much easier to move closer to your subject than to back away.
...Show more

the point is you can characterize things any way you want, that's your choice, i'm certainly not going to take that away from you - but you have a tendency to make categorical statements reflecting your personal preferences - saying something like "35 and wider is in my wheelhouse for street and environmental" is different than "100 can't be used" which is how you started. my last example is certainly tighter and perhaps on the border w/ pure portrait, but over the paste 2 pages i found enough examples in the middle of doing everything i'm working on today that are better examples of 100 and longer with plenty of surroundings.



Feb 17, 2017 at 05:51 PM
chez
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p.9 #9 · p.9 #9 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
the point is you can characterize things any way you want, that's your choice, i'm certainly not going to take that away from you - but you have a tendency to make categorical statements reflecting your personal preferences - saying something like "35 and wider is in my wheelhouse for street and environmental" is different than "100 can't be used" which is how you started. my last example is certainly tighter and perhaps on the border w/ pure portrait, but over the paste 2 pages i found enough examples in the middle of doing everything i'm working on today that
...Show more

Ecarlino...where did I say a "100 can't be used"? If you are referring to taking environmental photos in the crowded Vietnam markets...I stand by that statement. If you are trying to turn that statement into a general statement that I think you can't take street photos with a 100mm lens...then please stop and keep the comments within the proper context.

As far as examples...I have over 100,000 images from which I can pull examples of portraits shot with everything from 20mm all the way to 300mm...so what?

Tell me this. If you were given only 2 lenses to choose from for street environmental photos...not canned portrait shoots, which would you choose a 35mm or a 100mm...and why?



Feb 17, 2017 at 05:59 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #10 · p.9 #10 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Ecarlino...where did I say a "100 can't be used"?


In your reply to the conversation i had with fsiagian -
(edited for brevity):

fsiagian wrote:
Stf or not, I think 100mm is too long for environmental travel/family portrait. 35mm or 28mm may be more appropriate.

chez wrote:
That's my conclusion as well. My environmental portraits are almost always taken with a 35 or 28mm lens so that I can include some of the surrounding area which really ties in with the subject to tell a story.




Feb 17, 2017 at 06:09 PM
 

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ecarlino
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p.9 #11 · p.9 #11 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Tell me this. If you were given only 2 lenses to choose from for street environmental photos...not canned portrait shoots, which would you choose a 35mm or a 100mm...and why?


i would need both - depending upon how close i was to the subject.
it's also possible everyone has a different vision for how much 'environment' is to be included in a "environmental portrait" and perhaps even the same person in different situations would have a different perspective.

my point is, i generally can't go along with any hard and fast rules -

here is one at 200mm from the prev set (the last one of the kids may have been too tight) - is this 'environmental' enough:






also at 200mm - environmental ?








Feb 17, 2017 at 06:18 PM
chez
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p.9 #12 · p.9 #12 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
In your reply to the conversation i had with fsiagian -
(edited for brevity):



Note the "almost always taken with the 35 or 28mm lens". I don't say you can't take an environmental street photo with longer lenses...it's just you get more leeway taking environmental photos using wider glass. Don't understand you beef here Ecarlino. If you like using short teles for your environmental photos...how is anyone here to stop you or tell you you shouldn't do it. I'm laying down my opinion on the subject of environmental street portraits and my experience tells me the wider focal lengths allow more opportunities for intimate street photos. Your experience might tell you something else...good on you.





Feb 17, 2017 at 06:22 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #13 · p.9 #13 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
Note the "almost always taken with the 35 or 28mm lens". I don't say you can't take an environmental street photo with longer lenses...it's just you get more leeway taking environmental photos using wider glass. Don't understand you beef here Ecarlino. If you like using short teles for your environmental photos...how is anyone here to stop you or tell you you shouldn't do it. I'm laying down my opinion on the subject of environmental street portraits and my experience tells me the wider focal lengths allow more opportunities for intimate street photos. Your experience might tell you something else...good on
...Show more

you may recall that i simply to your statement where you said "it is not possible to use your 70-200 in tight streets" and i shared some examples where in similar situations i had some shots that worked with that focal length.

and now it's a tit for tat for some reason, so, let's just drop it.



Feb 17, 2017 at 06:26 PM
chez
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p.9 #14 · p.9 #14 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
i would need both - depending upon how close i was to the subject.
it's also possible everyone has a different vision for how much 'environment' is to be included in a "environmental portrait" and perhaps even the same person in different situations would have a different perspective.

my point is, i generally can't go along with any hard and fast rules -

here is one at 200mm from the prev set (the last one of the kids may have been too tight) - is this 'environmental' enough:
http://www.ecarlino.net/share/venice/flKeys.jpg

also at 200mm - environmental ?
http://www.ecarlino.net/share/venice/bwalk.jpg


If those posted photos represent your views of environmental street photos, then I can see why you feel the 100mm focal length is great for the application. My view of street photos are totally different than yours...now things make sense.




Feb 17, 2017 at 06:26 PM
chez
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p.9 #15 · p.9 #15 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
you may recall that i simply to your statement where you said "it is not possible to use your 70-200 in tight streets" and i shared some examples where in similar situations i had some shots that worked with that focal length.

and now it's a tit for tat for some reason, so, let's just drop it.


I still stand by not being able to use the 70-200 in the markets of SEA...I've tried but there is just no room period. It's not tit for tat...it's fact.

Your shared examples are not even close to the same situation...you had room to move back...markets have zero room. In fact, you have to be extremely careful not to step on people's goods as they lay out in the market. You might have 5 feet at best, sometimes less...and many people pushing and shoving all around you.

I have examples just like you posted from Prague with it's narrow streets...but those streets are luxury compared to others.



Feb 17, 2017 at 06:30 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #16 · p.9 #16 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


chez wrote:
If those posted photos represent your views of environmental street photos, then I can see why you feel the 100mm focal length is great for the application. My view of street photos are totally different than yours...now things make sense.


the conversation started, several pages ago, with the phrase 'environmental portraits' not necessarily 'street' and not necessarily "close ups of strangers doing their thing and still capturing their immediate surroundings" - so for me it doesn't mean actually on a street, it means people doing things out and about or being somewhere other than a studio or at home and capturing a sense of where you were. with the exception of the 1 shot of the kids against the tropical foliage (which was the 'environment' that brought back memories for me) which was probably too tightly framed for this conversation, all of the examples were at 100mm or longer, had people doing things out and about and give a sense of where they were.

fwiw, i generally walk the 'streets' (or beaches, or wherever we are) with a 25 + 55 or 35 + 85 combo b/c sometimes i'm closer in and sometimes i'm further away. they all work, was really my point. and the only reason 85 was my longest is that i haven't found a longer native FE lens i've liked yet.



Feb 17, 2017 at 06:34 PM
chez
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p.9 #17 · p.9 #17 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


ecarlino wrote:
the conversation started, several pages ago, with the phrase 'environmental portraits' not necessarily 'street' and not necessarily "close ups of strangers doing their thing and still capturing their immediate surroundings" - so for me it doesn't mean actually on a street, it means people doing things out and about or being somewhere other than a studio or at home and capturing a sense of where you were. with the exception of the 1 shot of the kids against the tropical foliage (which was the 'environment' that brought back memories for me) which was probably too tightly framed for this conversation,
...Show more

Enjoy your gear Ecarlino.



Feb 17, 2017 at 07:05 PM
Matt Grum
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ecarlino wrote:
also at 200mm - environmental ?
http://www.ecarlino.net/share/venice/bwalk.jpg


Getting back to the topic if I may.... that image is one that I think could have worked very well with the 100mm STF, the chain link in the foreground would have appeared much smoother.



Feb 17, 2017 at 07:23 PM
ecarlino
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p.9 #19 · p.9 #19 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


Matt Grum wrote:
Getting back to the topic if I may.... that image is one that I think could have worked very well with the 100mm STF, the chain link in the foreground would have appeared much smoother.


thanks for bringing it around (and btw - great write up above, as always)

that was from my Nikon days - the 70-200/2.8 @ 200mm.

that's the sort of shot where i'm wondering how much effect there would be given how far the subject was from the camera - i've been trying to find shots where the subject isn't near MFD - that seems to be where a lot of people shoot the STF lenses to get max effect.

that shot probably would have still had enough light for the T5.6 on an a7r2 to grab AF w/o much hunting, but that may be at the limits.



Feb 17, 2017 at 08:36 PM
Lucinda
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p.9 #20 · p.9 #20 · Pre-order: FE 100mm f/2.8 GM STF and FE 85mm f/1.8


I dismissed the new 100mm f/2.8, because I have the 85mm f/1.4 and 70-200mm gm f/2.8....

But the Bokeh, the bokeh man, the BOKEH!



Feb 17, 2017 at 11:01 PM
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