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Archive 2017 · C1P 10.0.1 issue

  
 
tcphoto
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


I recently upgraded from C1Pro 9 to 10.0.1 and was happy with my test shoot last week. Today, I am on day one of a two day shoot and all went well until I attempted to deliver the images from the first day. The images looked great as we shot tethered from the Canon 1Ds3 to my Mid'15 MBP, making minor adjustments and backing up to an external hard drive. As the client copied them to their MBP, they appeared about a stop or more dark and no adjustments appeared. I did not change any settings that I know of and any help would be appreciated.


Jan 26, 2017 at 09:05 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Of course the first question is how was your MBP screen calibrated and how was your client's screen calibrated. Then, what monitor were they using and what application was used to view on their part.


Jan 27, 2017 at 02:58 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


My displays are calibrated every month with an XRite device while the client is not. My CaptureOne case responded that Capture One is a completely different engine from Adobe and are not compatible. How does everyone deal with delivering RAW files to clients that use Adobe products to process files? I ended up processing to TIFF, full resolution files but it was a pain to do so.


Jan 27, 2017 at 09:43 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Oh, so you were giving the raw files which they were viewing in Lr or ACR on an uncalibrated screen and were surprised they looked different? First question is why in the world would you deliver raw files to a client? Second but not a statement. I've actually gone out and bought calibration pucks for clients and taught them how to properly calibrate so I knew we were at least in the same vicinity. And finally thirdly. A pain to process a raw file to a tiff. Really?

C1 and Lr/ACR do render images completely differently. That's to be expected. They have two very different ideas of how to interpret the raw files, both of which are distinctly different from Canon's own DPP software. There have always been a noticeable difference in luminance between the two companies as well.

I would never deliver raw files to anyone. Clients generally have know idea what to do with them and you're just asking for trouble. In addition, you should probably have your own method of getting the most out of your images, and certainly C1 is much better at pulling more detail with more pleasing color than the Adobe products, so letting them have at it themselves would be doing your own work a disservice.

Typically I will process out a set of low res jpegs from a job from which I make an html web gallery that is posted to a private server for their review. After they make their picks with markup notes, I process the tiffs, do whatever color correction and retouching is necessary and use hightail to deliver both a full res tiff and low res jpeg - all in sRGB to avoid more confusion. And the bonus is that electronic delivery, in most states that have sales tax, gets you around having to charge that.



Jan 28, 2017 at 03:22 AM
Ho1972
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


tcphoto wrote:
You can keep your lecture on business practices to yourself. I have only client that I do this for because they essentially pay all my bills because of the volume of work and the licensing agreement we have in place.


Your first post implies this is a new problem which occurred
A) after you upgraded C1 or
B) after you obtained this (new?) client.

If A is the case and you were somehow able to deliver satisfactory raw images to this client previously, then go back to your prior version of C1. After all, if this account is paying all your bills then using software that's one version out of date is a small sacrifice.

If B is the (more likely) case, then you've contracted yourself into an awkward situation since you and the people you hand your raw files off to are not using the same software. If the client is unwilling to use C1, then you need to switch to Adobe if your adjustments are to carry over. But this all begs the question of WHY the client demands the raws to begin with. They presumably intend to do their own processing and are not interested in your interpretations, so what does it matter if the files match or not? And if your processing *does* matter, then you've already found the solution (barring a software switch): hand off jpegs or tiffs along with your somewhat meaningless raws.

Finally, your comment to Peter was rude and uninformed. I'd take business practice/workflow advice from him any day.



Jan 28, 2017 at 08:11 AM
Gregory Edge
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Why not have your client calibrate the monitor? Seems this would be something that needs to be done no matter what software you are using.

You could also load Capture One on your client's computer. You are allowed to load it on 3 computers without purchasing anything extra. Looking at RAW files with different processing engines will yield different looks.

So the fact that you are getting completely different results is not surprising. One calibrated and one uncalibrated monitor and two different software packages, "what could possibly go wrong?"

You obviously are sensitive to business suggestions but at the risk of upsetting you, why not give you client the same monitor calibration device as you? Or at the very least calibrate it for them.



Jan 28, 2017 at 11:11 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


I addressed most of the above issues with the client as we reviewed the images at the end of day one. The Graphic Designer is adamant above using Adobe products even when I told him about the free 30 day trial, I did not know that I can let them in on my C1 license and may explore that option. It's funny how my displays are very close to theirs when I opened a RAW in Photoshop, so the engines are quite different and a calibration may have very little effect on their displays. They made a statement that their ecosystem is working with output to their liking, I have tried to tell them about C1's place in the Industry but I'm afraid it fell on deaf ears. I will put some thought into using LR with them so I can avoid these issues in the future.


Jan 28, 2017 at 11:59 AM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Tony - It turns out that this has nothing at all to do with Capture One v10. It only has to do with the fact that your practices aren't aligned with your clients and that you aren't aware of the differences in various workflows. Your best bet and the one that would solve your problem is to ditch Phase and learn how to use the same software your clients insist upon themselves. If your clients are unwilling to entertain other options then you have no choice but to do it yourself.

I've run into issues like this before as I do a certain amount of very high end retouching work for outside clients. One of them shoots into Lr and some of the files he delivers are borderline overexposed for processing in C1. Exact same problem as you have but from the opposite direction.



Jan 28, 2017 at 01:36 PM
Abbott Schindl
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


tcphoto wrote:
The images looked great as we shot tethered from the Canon 1Ds3 to my Mid'15 MBP, making minor adjustments and backing up to an external hard drive. As the client copied them to their MBP, they appeared about a stop or more dark and no adjustments appeared. I did not change any settings that I know of and any help would be appreciated.


A couple of things. As others have mentioned, ACR and C1 are totally different processing engines, and monitor calibration is important. But it seems that your problems started when you upgraded C1, so I'd look at changes to your and your client's environments.

- That the images consistently look underexposed on your client's machine(s) suggests that you and they are using different monitor brightness settings. Also, monitor color space could matter (but not 1 stop). Are you both using the same color spaces on your monitors and in your processing software settings? Since you both apparently calibrate your monitors, it's possible that something got changed at some point.

- Have you checked your process recipes and how C1's treating metadata, adjustment exports, etc.? I've noticed that some of my process settings need to be verified for each new session/catalog and also when I've done some C1 updates (both version and minor).

- Your client may be using a different version of ACR than before, especially if they're on a CC subscription. Maybe Adobe's changed the way 1Ds3 Raws are treated.

- Would it be acceptable to your client for you to send TIFFs instead of Raws? If so, you'd be able to send full-res adjusted images to them and ACR and other programs should be able to see them pretty close to the way you do on your setup. That's what I'd be inclined to do.

I hope some of this helps.



Jan 28, 2017 at 02:56 PM
tcphoto
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


I've been using C1 for over a year and working with this client for over three years and this is the first issue we've encountered. As I mentioned earlier, I may use LR when I shoot for them in the future and check on their settings. I ended up processing TIFF's for them and they were happy.


Jan 28, 2017 at 04:45 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Abbott - There actually is a fundamental difference in how bright raw images appear in C1 vs Lr/ACR even on the same monitor, so while calibration is important, as always, the lack of calibration could either exaggerate that difference or diminish it. Who knows. As to why there's such a notable difference, it's probably how Thomas Knoll chose to develop his profiles, because C1, Iridient and DPP are all very close to each other in there initial luminance look.


Jan 28, 2017 at 07:20 PM
Gregory Edge
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Sounds like you have two options.

1. Use Lightroom for them or switch totally. Personally I think you are giving up quality with Lightroom but you need to make life easy.

2. Supply them full resolution TIFFs. Obviously this is the best way for you but if they insist on RAW files.

Curious as to why a graphic designer does not have a calibrated display.



Jan 29, 2017 at 07:30 PM
tcphoto
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


The Graphic Designer told me it's "eyeballed" and the images on his displays match the output from their Printer. How can I argue with that? I couldn't convince him to use C1Pro, so I plan on processing out TIFF's for delivery. I will not compromise the C1Pro quality, the ease of use during the shoot or the speed of tethering compared to LR CC or DPP. This is the first issue in over three years of shooting for this client and I'll do my best to make it work for them.


Jan 29, 2017 at 08:29 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


Eyeballin' it is fine for a/b comparisons, but not for calibration. What's weird too is that you're saying they're using a MBP laptop. Really? For doing actual graphic design work. But okay. The Apple laptops are what I'd call "pretty good" straight out of the box, so maybe their screen to print matches are good enough for them. My MBP screens got a lot better after an i1DisplayPro calibration - close enough to the Eizo for shooting into but I would never rely on an uncalibrated laptop screen for final color, but I'm guessing that my color vision might be a tad more discriminating. As long as they're happy and the checks clear who's to argue.


Jan 30, 2017 at 01:38 AM
tcphoto
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


He also works on a year or two old iMac, his MBP comes on set when we shoot. I think that I have a plan in place and will see what they think about it.


Jan 31, 2017 at 01:52 PM
Peter Figen
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


I still think you'd be doing them a favor by buying them an i1DisplayPro for a couple of bills and showing them how to use it.


Jan 31, 2017 at 03:19 PM
jlafferty
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · C1P 10.0.1 issue


You could create a custom ICC profile in ACR to match this client's needs/tastes and then batch sync the settings at the end of the day. So, for example… if you and the client sit side by side and you open the same raw file in C1P and ACR simultaneously, and then push the file in ACR 1/3rd and find they look similar on screen, save that as a custom profile and even "set as new Camera Raw defaults" within ACR. At the end of the day you can send out selects to ACR and the setting will automatically carry forward. You can likely even send them the profile to load on their machine.


Feb 04, 2017 at 05:35 AM





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