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Archive 2017 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv

  
 
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


I am in the same decision making process. I currently have a 5DsR and I need a second body as 2nd, for backup, for events, for kids and amateur sports (low lit gym venues) and dogs running. I did play with a 1Dx for a week and there is just something to the 1D series bodies that really makes me want to use it. When I think about it rationally, I should go 5D4. Anti flicker may come in handy in the gyms. 30mp is substantially more than 18 and I am used to having 50mp so 18 will be a huge step back. I sometimes use a 100-400ii with 1.4xiii so 61 points at f/8 will be useful for wildlife, but the bare 100-400ii on a 5DsR also has 61 AF points and is like a 1.29x Extender so roughly has the same reach, just like your 7Dii. Low ISO DR upgrade combined with the 30mp will provide more ease of PP than the older type 18mp 1Dx sensor. 7 fps is "probably" enough for what I want to do, but it's questionable.

All things considered choosing the 5D4 is a no brainer. But then why the h*ck do I still seem to prefer the 1Dx?

It's got something to do with handling, responsiveness, just sheer engineering quality. When I try to work on the files I shot with the loaner 1Dx I had they're easy to work with but when cropping I do feel limited compared to my 5DsR. The 1Dx needs lenses that get me close enough to the action, so I don't need to crop too much. Also, I need to work on my framing as I sometimes tend to zoom out (just a tad) and depend on my 5DsR resolution to get me what I want. Different with the 1Dx. I think with a 70-200 in gyms the 1Dx will do great. Football fields I will need the 100-400ii with the 1Dx. These are questions I'm struggling with. Maybe it will make it easier for you or just the opposite.

Regards,
Ralph



Jan 21, 2017 at 12:54 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Jeff Nolten wrote:
I have this question as well. I've seen posts that state the 4 only does 6 fps in AI Servo. Is this true? Thanks.


It is 7FPS in AI Servo.

Here is an quote from Bryan's review at TDP:

"Reducing any concerns about the buffer depth: using a Lexar 64GB Professional 1066x UDMA 7 Compact Flash Card (Max. Read/Write Speed: 160/155 MB/s), the 5D Mark IV captured 36 frames in 4.98 seconds to precisely match the rated speed and far exceed the rated buffer depth. In addition, with this Lexar card installed, additional frames continued to be captured at a 4.4 fps rate. If DPRAW capture is enabled, the frame rate using the same card drops to 4.9 and the buffer wall is hit at 9 frames. Subsequent frames are captured at a 2.2 fps rate. The larger-sized DPRAW images definitely impact performance in this regard. Smaller file sizes of course positively influence the buffer capacity. With mRAW selected, the 5D IV was able to capture about 43 frames until a very slight pause began to show after approximately every 4 frames, resulting in slightly less than 7 fps after the initial 43.

Using a Lexar 128GB Professional 1000x UHS-II SDXC U3 Memory Card, the 5D Mark IV captured 21 frames in 2.85 seconds to once again match the rated drive speed and also match the UDMA 7 buffer depth rating. Using this card, the post buffer-filled frame rate was 1.6 fps.

Using a Sony 32GB Class 10 UHS-I (SF32UX) SDHC Card (Max. Read/Write Speed: 94/45 MB/s), the 5D IV captured a respectable 24 frames in 3.28 seconds to again precisely match the rated drive speed and exceed the rated buffer depth by a few frames. Using this card, the post buffer-filled frame rate was 1.6 fps. So, the slower UHS-I card recorded a higher number of frames before filling the buffer than the faster UHS-II (not-supported) card. However, this card could only handle 6 seconds or less of 4k video recording.

A friend of the site reports the SanDisk Extreme PRO 256GB UHS-I SDXC Memory Card delivering 30 RAW images from the 5D IV prior to it reaching buffer-full state. This card has rapidly become a very popular choice for 5D IV owners."

Also the 5DIV improves blackout times so it more useful for high speed shooting than previous 5 series cameras...see chart below also from TDP review.







Jan 21, 2017 at 01:42 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Lotuselite wrote:
Apologies for splitting hairs but the FPS of the 5DIV is shown as 7 in DPReviews specs,rather than the 6 posted above.
Small difference but one more that the 5DIII, not sure how significant it is but everyone helps.
I tried using 7 FPS on my 7DII just to get some idea and it may just be enough to ease my mind in the decision that I share with the OP.


Yep, my bad....brain fart.... it is 7FPS. See above.



Jan 21, 2017 at 01:47 PM
EB-1
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


arbitrage wrote:
It is 7FPS in AI Servo.

Here is an quote from Bryan's review at TDP:

"Reducing any concerns about the buffer depth: using a Lexar 64GB Professional 1066x UDMA 7 Compact Flash Card (Max. Read/Write Speed: 160/155 MB/s), the 5D Mark IV captured 36 frames in 4.98 seconds to precisely match the rated speed and far exceed the rated buffer depth. In addition, with this Lexar card installed, additional frames continued to be captured at a 4.4 fps rate. If DPRAW capture is enabled, the frame rate using the same card drops to 4.9 and the buffer wall is hit at 9
...Show more

I tried the 128GB Extreme Pro card in the 5D IV and it just doesn't compare in write throughput to the 1000x+ CF cards. The 1000x UHS-II SDXC cards are slow in one-channel mode (UHS-I). 2000x cards are need for max UHS-I speeds, which make them not very economical for UHS-I only applications.

EBH



Jan 21, 2017 at 02:23 PM
Jeff Nolten
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


EB-1 wrote:
How do you have the AI servo 2nd image priority set? There are three settings between shooting speed priority and focus priority as with similar Canon bodies. The default is the middle. AF may slow a bit if a tricky subject is moving around. Set the AI servo 2nd image to shooting speed priority and also try a different AF case if you have less keepers.

EBH


Thanks for the clarification guys. I don't have one yet, probably in March (my BD ), but I'm reading everything I can.

This question is a bit OT, but since all the usual suspects follow it, has anyone noticed compatibility issues with non-Canon lenses? I have a Cosina Voightlander 20 mm that does auto-exposure and reports itself to the camera. Not too worried, but just checking. Thanks in advance.



Jan 21, 2017 at 03:01 PM
Methodical
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Folks, we are talking shooting indoor sports, so all those AF points at f8 with a tc has no bearings as we sports shooters shoot wide open. Also, shooting sports indoors is not like shooting wildlife at 100' where huge crops are needed; you are close to the action, so the ability to do heavy cropping is of no concern.

I've not shot with the 5D4 and most likely won't, but I shoot football and basketball with the 1Dx and high iso is of no concern for me. With the 1Dx, you can always reduce the number of shots from 12 to 8 to 6, however, you can't ever increase the number of shots from the 5D4 from 7 to 8 to 10 to 12.

If you shoot at 7fps, then you won't know what you are missing until you shoot at 12fps.

If it were me, 1Dx all the way as the ability to do heavy crops is of no concern in indoor sports.

Note: The 2nd shot was at 8 or 10k.

Just One Man's opinion.











Edited on Jan 21, 2017 at 04:54 PM · View previous versions



Jan 21, 2017 at 04:23 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


I have a 7D2 and had a 5D3. I used the 7D2 for all my wildlife shooting. Since getting the 5D4 I have not touched my 7D2. Even with the loss of reach the 30 megapixels combined with the TC it outstanding. The only major hit is losing a few FPS which I don't care about.

Why I decided to speed the additional cash.

1. I get all 61 AF points with my 100-400 II and 1.4 III. I love to use all the AF configs and Case numbers when I shoot and I not yet convinced Cases 5 and 6 do much for me unless I am using one of the zone AF modes. I'll be using that combo a lot more now. 560mm is a good compromise between a 500 and 600L. As you can see from some of my posts the IQ is good with extreme crops.

2. The focus is very snappy even with the TC. When I was testing on the birds on the shots I was taking I was impressed. Can hardly wait to try BIF.

3. Case number parameters have more steps for fine tuning. Identical to the 1DX II.

4. The 5D4 has a separate AF area selection button just beside the multi-controller button. The 7D2 had it as part of the multi-controller button. If Canon had offered it as a retro for my 5D3 I would have paid to have it installed. I paid to have Canon install a locking mode dial retro on my 7D.

5. I did not really consider it but the touch screen is pretty amazing. I can whip through the menus. I barely use the green my menu's now. When I pick up my 7D2 I find myself tapping the screen.

6. When you press the Q button you get the Q screen. Press info and a second Q screen comes up that shows all the AF points, ISO etc and you can program more things you want to see when you open that screen.

7. I have been shooting at 32,000 ISO and getting good results.

8. The 5D4 offers the Detail Set when you are programming the AF-ON and * buttons. I wish Canon would add Drive Mode here.



Jan 21, 2017 at 04:36 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv




Methodical wrote:
Folks, we are talking shooting indoor sports, so all those AF points at f8 with a tc has no bearings as we sports shooters shoot wide open. Also, shooting sports indoors is not like shooting wildlife at 100' where huge crops are needed; you are close to the action, so the ability to do heavy cropping is of no concern.

I've not shot with the 1D4 and most likely won't, but I shoot football and basketball with the 1Dx and high iso is of no concern for me. With the 1Dx, I can always reduce the number of shots from 12
...Show more

The OP says he has 100-400II and both TCs so he does other things besides indoor sports. No one mentioned f/8 points until he brought that up in a subsequent post.



Jan 21, 2017 at 04:36 PM
Methodical
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


arbitrage wrote:
The OP says he has 100-400II and both TCs so he does other things besides indoor sports. No one mentioned f/8 points until he brought that up in a subsequent post.


Yep. My bad, I focused on the sports aspect and blew past that piece of information. Well, you know how I feel about cropping from my other posts.

Op, if you want the best of both worlds, then maybe the 5D4 would be your choice if cropping is your thing. These folks know more about that than me. I'm not a fan a big crops. I like long lenses, crop bodies and teleconverters, even FF frame bodies sometimes. I just like as much reach as I can get natively and little as possible crops and the 7D2, 600 and 1.4tc has been performing great for me. However, if you decide that sports is the main purpose, then 1Dx all the way. The ultimate is one day to have both.

I guess when you ask sport photographers, it's the 1Dx, if you ask nature photographers, it's the 5D4, but then when you get someone that does both, then...



Has anyone in this thread shot sports with the 5D4 extensively? Curious



Jan 21, 2017 at 04:39 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Methodical wrote:
Yep. My bad, I focused on the sports aspect and blew past that piece of information. Well, you know how I feel about cropping from my other posts.

Op, if you want the best of both worlds, then maybe the 5D4 would be your choice if cropping is your thing. These folks know more about that than me. I'm not a fan a big crops. I like long lenses, crop bodies and teleconverters, even FF frame bodies sometimes. I just like as much reach as I can get natively and little as possible crops and the 7D2, 600 and 1.4tc has
...Show more

I totally agree....if I was shooting sports I'd have my 1DX (or mkII obviously) hands down every day of the week. If the OP really wants to concentrate on indoor sports then 1DX is better. If he wants all-around that can give a bit more reach for wildlife but gives up FPS then 5D4 is hard to beat these days.



Jan 21, 2017 at 05:18 PM
luv2kruz
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


I need an all round camera, so the 5d iv is likely the choice.

For the person that asked, I love the images of the 6d vs. the 7d ii, but fps is just so limiting for what I do. It was my first full frame and now I am really getting into so many types of photography that it doesn't really work for me any more. So, with the 5div pretty much decided, I now have to decide what to do with 7dii. Once I get the 5div, I will see how often I will reach for 7dii. I might dump the 7dii and get a 5diii as a second body or if I find a great deal on a 1dx, maybe go with a 1dx and 5div setup.

Thanks to everyone for your input. It helped me a lot.



Jan 21, 2017 at 05:39 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Methodical wrote:
Has anyone in this thread shot sports with the 5D4 extensively? Curious

Try Kathy



Jan 21, 2017 at 06:11 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


luv2kruz wrote:
I need an all round camera, so the 5d iv is likely the choice.

For the person that asked, I love the images of the 6d vs. the 7d ii, but fps is just so limiting for what I do. It was my first full frame and now I am really getting into so many types of photography that it doesn't really work for me any more. So, with the 5div pretty much decided, I now have to decide what to do with 7dii. Once I get the 5div, I will see how often I will reach for 7dii. I
...Show more

1DX and 5D4 combo if you can swing it is one amazing partnership. However, you may get on well with the 5D4 and 7D2 as a combo also.

Personally I used the 7D2 and 1DX as a combo for over a year. Eventhough I constantly complained about the AF inconsistencies and low light performance of the 7D2 when I look back through my images I had about 2/3rds of my keepers (that I posted on FM and my website) from the 7D2. But then again I had many a headache from it also!! In good light and when you need the extra pixels and the 10FPS the 7D2 is hard to beat (other than Nikon D500) but once you enjoy FF images it is hard to go back...at least for me. I'm now shooting only FF in Canon land but do have the D500 for when I need it.



Jan 21, 2017 at 06:15 PM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


I'm starting to wonder whether I did good buying the 5DsR in may. 5D4 + 1Dx seems like a tough combo to beat. Contrary to what I thought originally, an allrounder could have its place in my bag. Then again I could use the 5DsR as the allrounder and just downsize as needed. I don't need the video and touch screen badly, but the 5DsR lacks good high ISO performance.

For my photography I see having only a 1Dx as limited, from a reach POV. The above shots at 2.8 are nice, but I cannot afford a 300/2.8. All I got are 70-200/2.8ii and 100-400ii. I think the OP has the same. Therefore, being able to shoot sports with a 70-200 depends on the size of the playing field. I think basket ball field size is the limit for a 70-200 if you need to reach across the field to get that one shot. Football field size can be too big for a 70-200 and the 100-400 is too slow for night games. Hmmmmm...



Jan 21, 2017 at 06:21 PM
Methodical
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


rabbitmountain wrote:
I'm starting to wonder whether I did good buying the 5DsR in may. 5D4 + 1Dx seems like a tough combo to beat. Contrary to what I thought originally, an allrounder could have its place in my bag. Then again I could use the 5DsR as the allrounder and just downsize as needed. I don't need the video and touch screen badly, but the 5DsR lacks good high ISO performance.

For my photography I see having only a 1Dx as limited, from a reach POV. The above shots at 2.8 are nice, but I cannot afford a 300/2.8. All I
...Show more

You can shoot football with the 70-200, you just need to be very active and continue to move with and closer to the action, so you don't have to crop too much. I know a photographer that uses the 70-200. You can also add the 1.4tc for more reach when shooting daytime sports. It's doable. If daytime, the 100-400 is just as good. I move a lot with the 300, but don't have to with the 600 when shooting football.




Jan 22, 2017 at 12:18 AM
rabbitmountain
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


Thanks. I've often wondered about how you 600 guys do it. Because when the action gets closer your lens will soon become too long, no?


Jan 22, 2017 at 04:43 AM
arbitrage
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


rabbitmountain wrote:
Thanks. I've often wondered about how you 600 guys do it. Because when the action gets closer your lens will soon become too long, no?


My guess and what I observe in the professionals on TV is that they all have a 70-200 over the shoulder if they have a 600 on the monopod. Then again, all I really see these days is the 200-400 used for everything but I don't watch many indoor sports so maybe it isn't used as much indoors. I would assume that hockey is a little better on the light with the white ice acting just like snow does and bouncing light up at the players also?

The sports I watch are golf, tennis and F1.....golf is about 100% 200-400s (a bit of an exaggeration but still), tennis I'd say the majority is 200-400 but I still see the 400 2.8s, 500s, 600s. F1 still has a whole range of lenses from 800s to 16-35s (but I guess they all have 16-35s for interviews and stuff). One thing for sure there is almost always a 70-200 2.8 over everyones' shoulder no matter what main lens they use.



Jan 22, 2017 at 09:24 AM
Methodical
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


rabbitmountain wrote:
Thanks. I've often wondered about how you 600 guys do it. Because when the action gets closer your lens will soon become too long, no?


I have the 70-200 for those times. I've even used the 135 f2 at times. However, I do use the 600 to get some really quick tight shots of certain players and then quickly go back to the 70-200 before the ball is snapped. One guy I shoot with all he uses is the 400 and that's it.





Jan 23, 2017 at 10:51 AM
TeamSpeed
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Need help with upgrade choice - 1dx or 5d mark iv


I have been shooting the NBA season this year with the 5D4. I use the 70-200 on the 5D4, and the 24-70 on the 7D2. I use the 7D2 for fan shots, wider angle game shots and the 5D4 for the sports action. It has been quite, quite good, and I use OOC JPG results up to ISO 25600 with post processing.








Jan 23, 2017 at 11:19 PM
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