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Archive 2017 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)

  
 
yoshidude
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


Please let me know if I need to move this post over to the Nikon Gear forum.

I recently got my D500, and love everything about it. However, when I shot a couple of basketball games, I was expecting better files at higher ISO's. With much of the talk, I didn't figure I'd see as much noise as I am at 2500 or 4000. It seemed like most users felt as though the D500 was good to go up to 6400 and even 12800.

The question is whether or not I'm being too critical OR am I not using optimal technique and/or settings OR are these as expected? Maybe it's the rescue involved in some of my photos where I did not get exposure right in-camera?

I've posted an unedited original, a close crop of unedited original, and my edited final version with Lightroom 5 Noise Reduction applied (slider at about 33). Other data listed below

I appreciate any help or feedback.
Thank you,
Scott
KCMO

1. Unedited original--ISO 2500, f/1.8, 1/640 with 50mm lens
20170104-DSC_0693-3 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr

2. Unedited original cropped close up
20170104-DSC_0693-2 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr

3. Final edited version
20170104-DSC_0693 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr

4. Unedited original--ISO 4000, f/1.8, 1/1000 with 85mm lens
20161220-DSC_0353-2 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr

5. Unedited original cropped close up
20161220-DSC_0353-3 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr

6. Final edited version
20161220-DSC_0353 by Scott Rowe, on Flickr




Jan 14, 2017 at 04:53 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


Let me ask you a question that might help you answer your question for yourself.

In all of the photos you posted, are you possibly judging the noise more by the lack of detail you are seeing at 100% more so than the actual noise? (Or thinking the noise is bad enough to hurt the detail)

If so, I would say your name xpectations are not in line with the the detail you can pull from these images at 100% even if they were at iSo 100. The reason boils down to sensor "pixels on the duck." To resolve physical world detail when viewed at 100% you need to land at Least 100 pixels per inch of "duck" when viewing on a typical monitor with typical distance assuming you had proper technique (no motion blur), an decent lense and exposure.

Just food for thought.

You can test my theory. Take your 50mm at iso 4000 but now at 5 feet instead of the 15-20 feet you were at. The distance you were at, probably was about 50pixels per inch of face. This let the noise appear bigger relative to the fine detail you were looking for when viewing st 100%.



Jan 14, 2017 at 11:04 PM
yoshidude
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


You may be right, gschlact. I'm perhaps being overly critical, but was hoping to see a significant improvement over my much-older D7000. So, what you've explained my be the answer.

Could you clarify something for me? So, the farther away my subject is, the larger that the noise appears? I'd not understood this before.

Thank you for your explanation.
Scott



Jan 14, 2017 at 11:32 PM
gschlact
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


To snswer your question...
No, at 100% viewing and same conditions, the noise will always be the same size independent of distance. However, the sunject detail is distant dependent. So as detail becomes smaller due to distance, it's relative size to noise increases. As that happens, the noise becomes much more bothersome. Do the test I suggested, you'll see it for yourself.



Jan 15, 2017 at 11:03 AM
mb126
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


You can't shoot super loose at high ISO and expect to retain gobs of detail. Shooting near court with an 85/100mm lens is fine on crop but 50 is quite loose for anything other than under the hoop.


Jan 15, 2017 at 01:04 PM
PureMichigan
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


The images you are are showing here frankly would have been unimaginable on a crop sensor camera 5 years ago. I agree with gslacht.

I think it's all possible to get too hung up on noise. Frankly, unless you are shooting for a sports magazine, only sports photographers even give it a second thought as long as its not a blizzard. We all want to deliver the sharpest possible pictures -- but I've yet to see a high school or D2 client knock a compelling, well-composed image over a little grain. What I think we all need to do a little better in HS basketball is compose and create. After layup number 2,776 and jump shot number 3,817 -- it's mass production. I look at so many basketball photo collections and fall asleep after the first 6 pictures.

Unrelated to your ISO question .. if you haven't tried it already, the D5/D500s have variants in the Auto White Balance Setting. One brings out the warmth -- one cools this down, in both case just a little. If you are in a gym that you are not familiar with I find these options to be outstanding. It's often a subtle but powerful change. The D500/D5 are the only camera that have this.

Worth a look

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/article/in63epqi/tips-for-using-auto-wb-for-incandescent-lighting-with-the-d5-d500.html



Jan 15, 2017 at 01:20 PM
John Skinner
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


You're being over-critical -- period.


Jan 15, 2017 at 11:14 PM
yoshidude
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


Thanks for the additional advice and reality check. I've got no ego and no problem admitting that I'm wasting time worrying about something that's not an issue.

I will, however, try the longer lens and look at the white balance options.

Kind Regards,
Scott



Jan 16, 2017 at 01:20 AM
PureMichigan
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


If I can make a suggestion re: high school ball ... a lot of folks will say go to a 70/200 2.8 for full-court coverage. I think that's a tricky. It's fine for arenas where you know the base candle power will support 2.8 on a cropped sensor. Most HS gyms will not. You'll be tempted to shoot down court with a 70/200 because you will have an effective reach of 300MM but at HS ISO levels and cropping at that distance will leave you with pictures that are pretty grainy. I know I stated above that we overemphasize grain. I stand by that. But I've never been happy with down court crops from a 70/200 2.8 -- it can get a little too snowy even for my tastes. You might want to rent one to try.

I can't speak highly enough of the Sigma 50-100MM 1.8 -- a 75-150MM on a crop. It's the best HS basketball lens I've used and just sings with the D500. You can get under the net well and mid-court is still good territory for cropping. Just forget about down court. That's for gyms where the lighting is good. If you need to get the defensive, pick a quarter and stake out the other end. Cheap to rent and try.

Other opinions may vary ...



Jan 16, 2017 at 10:29 AM
Jeff Self
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Help? D500 High ISO quality for Basketball (samples shown)


I just shot my first basketball game this Saturday. I was using my D500 and Tamron 70-200mm f/2.8. I too was critical of the noise, but Lightroom cleaned it up pretty well. I'm more critical of my quality of shots. Didn't realize basketball is so hard to shoot! Hopefully, by the end of the season, I'll have it figured out.


Jan 16, 2017 at 07:39 PM





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