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Archive 2017 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

InSanE
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

glort wrote:
Look around and you'll see pretty much every other business that takes bookings does the same......

Exactly. Its just that I dont like fear and everyone else to motivate my decisions.

glort wrote:
You leave them free to pull out and change their mind on a whim.

No. I have a 25% cancellation clause in the contract

glort wrote:
Yeah, pretty sure we all started out believing all people were good and trustworthy

Who said all people are good? Everything is based on bad people actions. Try flying. I chose not to accept this in my business.

glort wrote:
You really think people that charge a deposit are heartless bastards that WANT to gain from others misfortune?

This is you again. Some really bad thoughts because I said I love a free weekend.

glort wrote:
I fully realise I don't have a hope in hell of giving you a heads up at this stage,

Why do you bother?

It is good that you believe so strong in your opinions. Just try to believe in others too even if you do not agree.

Edited on Jan 08, 2017 at 03:45 AM · View previous versions

Jan 08, 2017 at 03:43 AM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

I just now realized what kaniggits are... I am so stupid.

Jan 08, 2017 at 03:43 AM

InSanE
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

nolaguy wrote:
Then I found it...

Yes. Internet is full of all this perfect business knowledge. Written in stone and repeated over and over.
One has to be a total idiot to do it different.
Really hard to fail.

Jan 08, 2017 at 03:54 AM

glort
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

InSanE wrote:
Yes. Internet is full of all this perfect business knowledge. Written in stone and repeated over and over.
One has to be a total idiot to do it different.
Really hard to fail.

Yeah, the internet, books, colleges and University's..... Not written in stone but certainly proved correct every damn day.

One has to know the principals in anything to do it different and not fall flat on their arse through making well demonstrated mistakes.
Of course some think they know it all and their businesses are successful even though they are making less than they could working the counter at a petrol station.

Anyway, you seem to have it all figured out so good luck with it and on finding that perfect tax minimization scheme you are going to need to invest all the profits in.

Jan 08, 2017 at 05:36 AM

InSanE
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

glort wrote:
Yeah, the internet, books, colleges and University's..... Not written in stone but certainly proved correct every damn day.

Here is what the internet says.

Control freak
In psychology-related slang, the term control freak describes a person who attempts to dictate how everything is done around them. The phrase was first used in the 1970s,an era when stress was laid on the principle of 'doing one's own thing' and letting others do the same.

Vulnerability
Control freaks are often perfectionists defending themselves against their own inner vulnerabilities in the belief that if they are not in total control they risk exposing themselves once more to childhood angst. Such persons manipulate and pressure others to change so as to avoid having to change themselves, and use power over others to escape an inner emptiness. When a control freak's pattern is broken, “the Controller is left with a terrible feeling of powerlessness ... but feeling their pain and fear brings them back to themselves.

Control freaks appear to have some similarities to codependents, in the sense that the latters' fear of abandonment leads to attempts to control those they are dependent on. Recovery for them entails recognising that being a control freak helped paradoxically preserve codependency itself.

In terms of personality-type theory, control freaks are very much the Type A personality, driven by the need to dominate and control

In management
In the corporate world, control freaks tend to publicly admonish their inferiors, especially during meetings. More positively, the term can also refer to someone with a limited number of things that they want done a specific way; professor of clinical psychology Les Parrott wrote that “Control Freaks are people who care more than you do about something and won't stop at being pushy to get their way”. There may be a fine line between being a detail-oriented manager, who likes to have things done 'right', and being a (destructive) control freak. Control freaks are usually a cause of micromanagement.

In some cases, the control freak sees their constant intervention as beneficial or even necessary. This can be caused by feelings of separation or departure from a loved one; or by the belief that others are incapable of handling matters properly, or the fear that things will go wrong if they do not attend to every detail. In other cases, they may simply enjoy the feeling of power it gives them so much that they automatically try to gain control of everything and everyone around them.

Jan 08, 2017 at 05:44 AM

glort
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

InSanE wrote:
Here is what the internet says.

Control freak
In psychology-related slang, the term control freak describes a person who attempts to dictate how everything is done around them. The phrase was first used in the 1970s,an era when stress was laid on the principle of 'doing one's own thing' and letting others do the same.

Vulnerability
Control freaks are often perfectionists defending themselves against their own inner vulnerabilities in the belief that if they are not in total control they risk exposing themselves once more to childhood angst. Such persons manipulate and pressure others to change so as to avoid having to change themselves,...Show more →

What does it say about immature little girls on forums that post cut and paste irrelevant garbage simply because they have no comeback to the point being discussed and are trying desperately to save face and prove they are right?

Mate, I couldn't give a damn what you do.
I was trying to point out to you and others that may read this the flaws in your reasoning. If you don't want to entertain them which I rightly surmised, fine. Try acting like an adult though because your attempt at insult failed miserably.
I laughed at the childishness of it but it fell well short of being clever or intelligent enough to cause any insult.

Going out of your way to post cut and paste irrelevant responses like that only undermines the credibility of anything else you have said or any point made. The level of your intelligence has been clearly defined and now can be dismissed without warranting a moments further thought.

Thanks for clearing that up once and for all.

Jan 08, 2017 at 06:03 AM

InSanE
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

glort wrote:
What does it say about immature little girls on forums that post cut and paste irrelevant garbage simply because they have no comeback to the point being discussed and are trying desperately to save face and prove they are right?

Jan 08, 2017 at 06:15 AM

nolaguy
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

Thread forensic analysis is part of the entertainment value of the internet, though admittedly a questionable use of time. Even so...

InSanE, buddy, here's what happened. Everyone was just expressing their practices and opinions, including you, then Kurtis deployed his oft off-center sense of humor...

TTLKurtis wrote:
Username checks out

...to express his opinion that it's nuts to not accept a meaningful non-refundable retainer. He's a smart guy but a bit of an acquired taste, I'll grant you. I can tell you he's worth listening to and always means well. His simple comment was a public service announcement, not really being unkind to you.

Nevertheless, I get that you found it offensive. But your (PhD-driven?) sense of self then went off the deep end in a hurry as you condemned all others...

InSanE wrote:
I piss on all this imagined business practices!

It was pretty funny, especially the exclamation point (suddenly your stream seemed larger than life). Well done.

And it was all the more interesting because as you leveled everyone else's practices to dust, it was in the same thread you challenged...

InSanE wrote:
Why? Because everyone else does it different?

Prior to all that you were simply sharing information. Then suddenly you went childish.

Doesn't matter that Kurtis used your self-chosen handle to make a point (btw, you set that one up). Doesn't matter that Glort came down on you like a ton of bricks, you set that one up too.

You can't express your sense of superiority and wholesale disdain in the form of lesser bodily functions for everyone in a thread and not expect a reaction. You can't respond so venomously and irrationally to a simple (sort of clever) dissenting comment without raising eyebrows.

Everything since that has been messy and tit for tat. Your position and commentary dissolved into deflection and internet-rantings that have zero to do with what actually happened and in many cases you contradict yourself.

Also, I don't recommend going head to head with Glort. Innate intelligence, experience, street smarts, and conviction will run circles around PhD's all day long, especially when the PhD is so easily riled (not that Glort didn't cut loose - he did).

That said, I have no problem with your policies and admire your rationale and kindness. I hope it never burns you but I'm sure you've made peace with that possibility. Your practice is what I would be most inclined to do if I could afford the risk... I think it was a really worthwhile perspective to bring to the discussion. Just maybe (totally up to you of course) don't be so thin skinned. One rarely demonstrates confidence and conviction by whipping it out and urinating at the first note of disagreement.

Best,

Chuck

Edited on Jan 08, 2017 at 12:05 PM · View previous versions

Jan 08, 2017 at 11:47 AM

InSanE
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

Amazing review. Thank you!
simplified
Bend Over Beethoven

Jan 08, 2017 at 12:02 PM

TTLKurtis
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

Mainly I was being a smartass and couldn't pass up the opportunity to point out such a perfect username for the opinion expressed. Usually that's my #1 priority in any communication is to deploy some amount of smartass, sass, sarcasm, or a wonderful combination for the full trifecta. If I can be informative or helpful in some way at the same time, that's purely an unintended consequence, I assure you.

And yes, I'd say acquired taste is quite accurate. Those who like me really like me, many can't get past my lack of filter and tact, and that is A-OK with me. Far too lazy to try and make everyone like me.

Jan 09, 2017 at 01:10 AM

Oscarsmadness
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

nolaguy wrote:
admittedly a questionable use of time.
Best,

Chuck

^this

Jan 09, 2017 at 02:38 PM

paparazzinick
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

InSanE wrote:
Why? Because everyone else does it different?
All my clients love this policy and business is good.
I believe in good people, and if someone has to cancel a wedding something bad happened.
I am always happy for a free weekend (still pending), and do not want financial gains on others sadness.
What will happen if you do not charge a wedding in advance? People will give up their memories? Who are those people? How many times will this happen? I piss on all this imagined business practices!

So in other words, you don't want to make money? What if you booked 35 weddings and then a week before each wedding, everyone cancelled? Now you just wasted your entire year not working and making no money.

I get it, I don't want to take someones money and not give a service or product in return. But they sign a contract with me which guarantees I will show up and take photos then deliver them and they are guaranteeing that they will pay me for devoting my life to them for that day. If they cancel, well I am sad but at the same time, I am glad there is a retainer fee I keep to have the day off.

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:11 PM

InSanE
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

paparazzinick wrote:
So in other words, you don't want to make money? What if you booked 35 weddings and then a week before each wedding, everyone cancelled? Now you just wasted your entire year not working and making no money.

I get it, I don't want to take someones money and not give a service or product in return. But they sign a contract with me which guarantees I will show up and take photos then deliver them and they are guaranteeing that they will pay me for devoting my life to them for that day. If they cancel, well I am sad...Show more →

Did you actually read my posts?
Specifically the 25% cancellation charge in my contract?

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:23 PM

paparazzinick
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

InSanE wrote:
Did you actually read my posts?
Specifically the 25% cancellation charge in my contract?

Have you ever trie to charge someone a cancellation fee when they cancelled? I will guarantee you they will say screw you. lol Thats how brides are man. It sucks.

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:31 PM

LeeSimms
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

FWIW, our first payment is called a consultation fee and considered full payment for pre-event meetings and logistic support. Our balance payment is the photography fee.

That said, I try to be flexible. Life happens.

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:45 PM

formula4speed
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

Why not take the 25% upfront? If they cancel, you have your fee and you don't have to try to collect. Isn't having that clause in there basically the same as a retainer anyway if they are legally committed to that 25%? If you feel morally obligated for some reason you could choose to refund a retainer if a wedding is cancelled.

It's great you've never been burned, I think others here are just trying to save you a potential headache down the road.

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:50 PM

InSanE
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

paparazzinick wrote:
Have you ever trie to charge someone a cancellation fee when they cancelled? I will guarantee you they will say screw you. lol Thats how brides are man. It sucks.

No. Never had to charge it and managed to work around it peacefully twice

That clause is there for prevention, I understand the risks.
One time I gave it up, since reasons involved death.
That goodwill brought me more business than all adwords and fb advertising ever will.
One day i may help lawyers put some bread on the table.

Jan 10, 2017 at 01:52 PM

InSanE
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

formula4speed wrote:
Why not take the 25% upfront? If they cancel, you have your fee and you don't have to try to collect. Isn't having that clause in there basically the same as a retainer anyway if they are legally committed to that 25%? If you feel morally obligated for some reason you could choose to refund a retainer if a wedding is cancelled.

It's great you've never been burned, I think others here are just trying to save you a potential headache down the road.

Why complicate and refund? It a choice I made, and it works for me.
Where I live, weddings are often financed by gifts from guests and everything is always paid after the wedding (venue, band, photo, video.. etc) Sure most do charge a retainer.

Jan 10, 2017 at 02:05 PM

formula4speed
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

I was mostly curious why you are opposed to a retainer if they have the legal obligation to pay you 25% if they cancel. I personally think the retainer seems a simpler solution, so we'll have to agree to disagree and I sincerely hope it works out for you.

Jan 10, 2017 at 02:25 PM

elkhornsun
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Retainer Fee: question about amount taken at time of booking

I require 25% upon signing of the contract and I get the payment in the form of a check and I am sure to specify in the contract that it is a non-refundable retainer and not a down payment.

A down payment done with a credit card will get reversed if the bride backs out and seeks a refund from her bank. No such problems with a check that has cleared the bank.

Jan 20, 2017 at 06:09 PM

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