Home · Register · Software · Software · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3              5       6       end
  

PC build questions follow up (arrived)
  
 
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Follow up to this post.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1465546/0

Down to the wire and will be ready to buy in about 2 weeks. Leaning towards a custom from AVA because itís hard to customize Dell or HP. Also I am retired and it makes no difference when I buy stuff, now or later so I might as well get the upgrades now, installed and tested.

1.M2 verses SATA for SSD main drive. I am thinking I can get by with SATA. I need at least 500GB for my OS and programs to allow some room for working files.

2.750 0r 850 Watt power supply? I will have 64GB ram with a CPU cooler and an EVGA 4GB video card. At least two 2TB internal HD.

3.I5 or I7 CPU?

4. Win 10 Pro? Or home. I am leaning to Pro. With a CD of course.

To recap, used mostly for Photoshop CC to process 50MPix files where stitching multiple images and having many layers are common. No gamming and no music, but occasional video. I am now comfortable with $2000 for the machine.

Any other comments?

Sample build. $1755 from AVA.

Carbide Series SPEC-01 Red LED, w/ Window, No PSU, ATX, Black, Mid Tower Case
CSM-B150M PRO-VDH, Intel B150 Chipset, LGA 1151, DDR4 64GB, HDMI, microATX Retail Motherboard
Core i5-6600 Quad-Core 3.3 - 3.9GHz TB, HD Graphics 530, LGA 1151, 6MB L3 Cache, DDR3L / DDR4, 14nm, 65W, Retail Processor
64GB Kit (4 x 16GB) HyperX Fury DDR4 2133MHz, PC4-17000, CL14 1.2V, Non-ECC, Black, DIMM Memory
BQ Series 850 BQ 850W, 80 PLUS Bronze, Semi Modular, ATX Power Supply
Vortex Plus, Socket 1151/AM3+/FM2+, 84mm Height, Copper/Aluminum, Retail CPU Cooler
Formula 7, 4g, 8.3 (W/m-K), Nano Diamond, Thermal Compound
DS Series DS-140mm White 140mm w/ White LEDs, 1500 RPM, 93.4 CFM, 23.4 dBA Cooling Fan
500GB 850 EVO 7mm, 540 / 520 MB/s, 3D V-NAND, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5-Inch Retail SSD
<strong>2 x </strong>2TB / 8GB MLC FireCuda ST2000DX002, 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s NCQ, 64MB cache, 3.5-Inch OEM SSHD
DRW-24B1ST, DVD 24x / CD 48x, DVD-Writer, SATA, 5.25-Inch, Black, OEM Optical Drive
PRO-77U, Internal, 5.25" Bay, 4x USB 3.0, Black Retail Card Reader
PCE-N15, Internal, IEEE 802.11b/g/n, 2.4GHz, 300 Mbps, PCI Express 2.0 x1, Retail Wireless Adapter
Standard Wiring with Precision Cable Routing and Tie-Down
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit DVD OEM
Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, Life-Time Labor Warranty)

Similar Dell.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DTJN86Q/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=3TOKSBL7USWZE&coliid=I1RUX352267L8L





Edited on Feb 10, 2017 at 04:40 PM · View previous versions



Dec 30, 2016 at 05:44 PM
Michael White
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Get the best you can afford I'd go with a 940-1tb ssd and a minor two 1tb hdds, 16 go ram 8 go video card, i7 Intel CPU a ps that is rate at 1.5 of your actual power requirements and liquid CPU cooler etc

Order the parts and build it yourself the hardest thing is plugging in the power supply to the motherboard everything else is simple just ground yourself and be careful.



Dec 30, 2016 at 06:46 PM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Michael White wrote:
Get the best you can afford I'd go with a 940-1tb ssd and a minor two 1tb hdds, 16 go ram 8 go video card, i7 Intel CPU a ps that is rate at 1.5 of your actual power requirements and liquid CPU cooler etc

Order the parts and build it yourself the hardest thing is plugging in the power supply to the motherboard everything else is simple just ground yourself and be careful.


Thanks for the advice. I am having a hard enough time choosing components at this level, let alone if I were building it myself. I am already using a 4GB Nvidia card in my current computer and it is as much as I need for non gaming or cad work.

The advice on CPU cooling is also good. How would I find the power draw? I know, just add up the components, but that's something that may be hard to discover.




Dec 30, 2016 at 07:24 PM
15Bit
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Ben,

I think we sorted out the build it yourself vs buying a box argument in the last thread?

M.2 vs SATA is a good question. In short, for most things it doesn't actually matter. The massive speedup you "feel" from running your OS from SSD's is due to the huge reduction in latency vs spinning HDD's. An M.2 SSD does have slightly lower latency than a SATA, but the difference is really the difference between "oh my god that's fast" and "woohoo that's fast". If you are doing really big (i.e. 10's-100's of GB) transfers between disks, the M.2's start to become worthwhile though, as they have 3x the sequential transfer rate.

I personally tend toward asus and gigabyte motherboards, and towards the more enthusiast chipsets (Z170 in this case). That is not necessary for you, but I certainly wouldn't get a B150 board, as it is pretty much the most crippled chipset that intel makes for these CPUs. You obviously don't want CPU overclocking, but the B150 gives you fewer PCIe lanes than other chipsets (which might limit expandability later) and no option for M.2. I would recommend an H170 or Q170 instead. I'd also bump up to DDR4-2400 if the motherboard supports it and it doesn't cost much more. All that said, your current choice should work OK (if you don't want M.2).

I would definitely not recommend the PSU. To begin with, that power rating is massively over what you need. I run an overclocked i5 with GTX 970, 32GB RAM, 2 SSD's and a 7200rpm HDD and i have a 560W PSU. And i specc'd that on the generous side. My Dual Xeon (2x8 cores) with 64GB RAM, 8 HDD's and 2 SSD's only runs a 650W, and again that is over-specc'd. Also, if i am identifying the BQ units correctly they are $70 EVGA PSU's. They don't get great reviews, and come with only a 3 year warranty. My feeling is that the PSU will let you down some time before the rest of the PC does. For only $15 or so extra i would recommend you get a 520-550W Seasonic unit that will come with a 5 year warranty and provide more than enough power.

Wireless card. How is your home network arranged? If you are going to store all your images on the PC and just use the wireless for web browsing etc, then the PCE-N15 should be fine as N300 is faster than most broadband. If you are going to be accessing images on a NAS via the wireless or doing a lot of data transfer within your home network, then you will become rapidly frustrated with the performance - 300MBit means max transfer rates of 37MB/sec (assuming the planets have all lined up and you sacrificed a goat at the full moon etc.). In reality you'll probably get more like 15-25MB/sec, which is too slow. If you will have a lot of data running over the wireless, i'd suggest either a PCE-AC68 (which i have) or the newer PCE-AC88. Better still, plug in your PC and NAS directly to the router with gigabit ethernet cables.

The CPU cooler should be fine for that CPU. It's not a high power model and you aren't overclocking. Water cooling is totally unnecessary on this build.

i5 or i7. Hmm, tricky. The difference is hyperthreading, which does give some performance boost in Photoshop for *some* plugins and brushes. If you don't use those, then it offers little. My feeling is that hyperthreading is really "icing" on the cake. You are probably looking at the choice between an i5-6600 and i7-6700, which is a $80-$100 difference. I'd say that if you can afford the i7 without compromising on any other parts, then get it. If you would have to downgrade another part to afford the i7, then get the i5.

I presume from the hardware list that you are planning to fit your existing graphics card into this machine and not buy a new one?



Dec 30, 2016 at 10:43 PM
BobCollette
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


I second the advice that 15Bit gave you. It's very sound advice.


Dec 30, 2016 at 10:49 PM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


15Bit wrote:
Ben,

I think we sorted out the build it yourself vs buying a box argument in the last thread?

M.2 vs SATA is a good question. In short, for most things it doesn't actually matter. The massive speedup you "feel" from running your OS from SSD's is due to the huge reduction in latency vs spinning HDD's. An M.2 SSD does have slightly lower latency than a SATA, but the difference is really the difference between "oh my god that's fast" and "woohoo that's fast". If you are doing really big (i.e. 10's-100's of GB) transfers between disks, the M.2's start to
...Show more

Thanks for the detailed reply. So far I have only built this on line using drop downs, I will see if the MB and PS you suggest are available, may need to call and I want to be ready when I do hence this post.

I will have them install a video card that meets my needs,I assume the 4GB Nvidia card I specified will do the job. my wife gets the old computer and will need the card for the old NEC I also gave her. I will need to spec this as part of the phone call build. As you know, finding out what ports you get is not easy.

For wireless, I really don't need it and don't have one on my current PC, I am hooked up via ethernet. But there are other printers in the house that I could access with Wifi. I have made my computer independent of the lan to avoid hacking via my WIFI. I should probably keep it that way. I have everything I need directly plugged in via USB or ethernet. My printers are wifi enabled, but wifi is a pain and I have them on USB which works fine.





Dec 30, 2016 at 11:17 PM
15Bit
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Looking at the AVA site a little, and a couple of other things occur to me.

1. 13 bucks extra for $1 of premium thermal grease is a rip off. And for anyone not overclocking it is unnecessary.

2. Do you not already have a card reader (or 5)? I wouldn't pay $60 for the one you spec'd.

3. Check the case specifications - it might already come with fans installed, negating the need for an extra.



Dec 30, 2016 at 11:28 PM
15Bit
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Don't lose too much sleep over wifi hacking - if you've enabled the AES encryption and set a suitably non-obvious key then you should be secure. I also set my router to only accept traffic from a list of known MAC addresses (that i program in).

It is worth making a "social evaluation" of your neighbours though - if you have an apartment of geeky looking compsci types living next door (or a family with a computer literate teenager) then of course you run a higher risk than if you live in a residential block of 70-90 year olds...



Dec 30, 2016 at 11:38 PM
wjauch
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


For most people there is probably little to no benefit to Windows 10 Pro over home. The OEM version is tied to the motherboard that it is first installed on, if motherboard dies it is supposed to be replaced with same or at least similar motherboard (although I believe in the past a phone call to Microsoft has at times permitted activation on a new different motherboard). A retail copy of Windows costs more but you can legally move to a different PC in the future, may be something to consider as supposedly Microsoft has indicated Win10 will be the last version of Windows, i.e. updated for many years.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:18 AM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


15Bit wrote:
Looking at the AVA site a little, and a couple of other things occur to me.

1. 13 bucks extra for $1 of premium thermal grease is a rip off. And for anyone not overclocking it is unnecessary.

2. Do you not already have a card reader (or 5)? I wouldn't pay $60 for the one you spec'd.

3. Check the case specifications - it might already come with fans installed, negating the need for an extra.


I do have a card reader. I hate it and the 4 that preceded it. I want one in the case. I will ask about fans, it's not clear whats there. But I was the guy who specced fans in printers so I know a bit about them and am fussy about fans that have lousy bearings.

Thanks for the thermal grease tip, it's an option I checked, they have others.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:41 AM
 

Search in Used Dept. 



ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


15Bit wrote:
Don't lose too much sleep over wifi hacking - if you've enabled the AES encryption and set a suitably non-obvious key then you should be secure. I also set my router to only accept traffic from a list of known MAC addresses (that i program in).

It is worth making a "social evaluation" of your neighbours though - if you have an apartment of geeky looking compsci types living next door (or a family with a computer literate teenager) then of course you run a higher risk than if you live in a residential block of 70-90 year olds...


My neighborhood is the 70-90 type. But I did get hacked last year and had to get new CC 3 times. Not sure I was hacked, never did figure it out, but I spent some time looking at all forms of staying safe.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:43 AM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


wjauch wrote:
For most people there is probably little to no benefit to Windows 10 Pro over home. The OEM version is tied to the motherboard that it is first installed on, if motherboard dies it is supposed to be replaced with same or at least similar motherboard (although I believe in the past a phone call to Microsoft has at times permitted activation on a new different motherboard). A retail copy of Windows costs more but you can legally move to a different PC in the future, may be something to consider as supposedly Microsoft has indicated Win10 will be the
...Show more

The quoted price includes the retail version, not going with OEM OS again. I like Win 10 except it has lousy color management and hope Pro may be better.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:44 AM
mikethevilla
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


As a professional photographer who processes large numbers of photos, my primary usage is lightroom which may have different needs than Photoshop, so I optimize my machines accordingly.

With that in mind, what I've been told (and have experienced myself) is that the two biggest performance boosts (again, mostly for Lightroom) have come from CPU clock speed and working hard drive write speeds. So when I purchase a new computer (mostly a mac guy) I prioritize the fastest processor and fastest internal drive (m.2). Most modern ram and graphics cards have been fine for me.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:46 AM
mikethevilla
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Just read your original thread. I think there will be far more knowledgable people than myself in terms of Photoshop optimization.


Dec 31, 2016 at 12:49 AM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


For 15BIT, speced as you suggest it comes to $1943 which is not bad. I will probably add Office as my version is the 2007 version.



Dec 31, 2016 at 12:59 AM
Ho1972
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Bookmarked for future reference.


Dec 31, 2016 at 01:06 AM
ben egbert
Online
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Latest specs. I choose Samsung 512GB SSD, so I wonder what this is.

Neos Series w/ Window, No PSU, ATX, Black/Gold, Mid Tower Case
H170 PRO GAMING, Intel H170 Chipset, LGA 1151, DDR4 64GB, HDMI, M.2, USB 3.1, ATX Retail Motherboard
Core i7-6700 Quad-Core 3.4 - 4.0GHz TB, HD Graphics 530, LGA 1151, 8MB L3 Cache, DDR3L / DDR4, 14nm, 65W, Retail Processor
GeForce GTX 1050 Ti GAMING, 1290 - 1392MHz, 4GB GDDR5 128-Bit, PCI Express 3.0 Graphics Card
64GB Kit (4 x 16GB) HyperX Fury DDR4 2133MHz, PC4-17000, CL14 1.2V, Non-ECC, Black, DIMM Memory
TS Series P1-650G-TS3X 650W, 80 PLUS Gold, No Modular, ATX Power Supply
Hyper Series T4 Socket 2011-3/1151/AM1/AM3+/FM2+, 153mm Height, Copper/Aluminum, Retail CPU Cooler
DS Series DS-140mm White 140mm w/ White LEDs, 1500 RPM, 93.4 CFM, 23.4 dBA Cooling Fan
500GB 850 EVO 7mm, 540 / 520 MB/s, 3D V-NAND, SATA 6Gb/s, 2.5-Inch Retail SSD
<strong>2 x </strong>2TB BarraCuda ST2000DM006, 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb/s, 64MB cache, 3.5-Inch OEM HDD
DRW-24B1ST, DVD 24x / CD 48x, DVD-Writer, SATA, 5.25-Inch, Black, OEM Optical Drive
Standard Wiring with Precision Cable Routing and Tie-Down
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit DVD OEM
Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, Life-Time Labor Warranty)



Dec 31, 2016 at 03:08 AM
15Bit
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Ben,

That looks pretty nice to me. Only a couple of questions on that list:

1. Are you sure you want a case with a window?

2. Still going to nag on the PSU. Get a seasonic. After seeing models from several of the other (supposedly reputable) manufacturers die before their time, i only buy seasonics now. Of the ones they offer at AVA i would personally choose the Platinum SS-520W for your build. It's fanless (and hence silent) and comes with a 7 year warranty (which gives you an idea of how well made it is). If you are concerned about the power draw, then the S12G-750 runs silent below 50% load and still has a 5 year warranty.

3. I'm not a huge fan of Seagate hard drives nowadays, after seeing a disproportionate number of them die in home and business computers. I'd go with a Western Digital myself.

I specced up something very similar to what you have there using their "H170 Silent" configurator. With a seasonic S2G-750 and a WD black HDD i can still keep it under $2k.

I know what you mean about fans - i have been driven mad by lousy fans in the past. I've taken to buying Noctua's nowadays.



Dec 31, 2016 at 10:25 AM
Tony Rogers
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


A few thoughts:

I strongly recommend having at least two SSDs. First one can be M2 - it is faster, but you load most of the OS at startup, so the difference during operation may be small. Second SSD is for the photos you are working on - it is far faster to download the RAW files from memory card to an SSD than to an HD, and the thumbnails appear more quickly. I work on the images on the SSD, then transfer the entire directory to magnetic disk once I'm finished. It's a good idea to keep the working space separate from the system drive - you can use a smallish drive for the operating system and applications (I'm using 120GB in my current Photoshop PC), and larger drive/s for the working space - I have a tendency to let the working drive fill up, then do a serious cleanup - you don't really want to do that to the system drive :-)

I prefer to use a CPU and motherboard which supports 4 channel RAM - it's double the memory bandwidth without overclocking. It's not a cheap option though - the CPUs and motherboards are more expensive. Does mean that the maximum RAM is doubled - my Photoshop box have a limit of 64GB instead of 32GB (it supports 8 DIMMs). The easy way to spot these is that they use the LGA 2011 socket instead of an LGA 15xx socket. I have no benchmarking proof that this makes a difference, though :-)

I prefer to keep my magnetic drives on my network, rather than in the machine. That's partly because I put them in RAID boxes, to guard against the failure of any single drives, and parts because I want to access them from more than one machine.

Important point - no matter what you use for your online storage (local or remote), make sure you backup everything that matters to you. Any form of backup is better than none, but make sure you have at least three copies of everything - one copy could be lost with a single failure; a second copy could die when you are accessing it in panic after the first one fails...




Dec 31, 2016 at 02:27 PM
Dragonfire
Online
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · PC build questions follow up (arrived)


Ben.

the Dell XPS-8900 - 32gb - 512ssd - 2tb - 4gb video arrived on Tuesday in perfect condition and all systems are up and running without issue.

everything is faster but Lightroom 5.7 still has a minor lag even after coming from i7 gen 1 with 8gb RAM with 1DsIII raw files.

It runs my NEC, Dell and a 4K TV which is a bit of overkill until InDesgn is loaded.

I do not believe the extra RAM and SSD will boost the speed of inefficient code.

Happy New Year







Dec 31, 2016 at 03:28 PM
1
       2       3              5       6       end






FM Forums | Post-processing & Printing | Join Upload & Sell

1
       2       3              5       6       end
    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username     Reset password