Home · Register · Join Upload & Sell

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Username  

  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2016 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)

  
 
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1467217/0#13856088


Dec 27, 2016 at 10:46 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


But wait, there's more!



I've added an inexpensive ($178.20 from Amazon) but high-resolution (1920x1200) 7" HDMI monitor to assist me in better judging how much tilt and swing movements to apply.

I found this surprisingly difficult to do using the A7r's 3" LCD, because I have to use the zoom function to see the image with enough detail and then scroll all around the image several times to judge the effects of the movements.

Using this monitor, however, I can now fairly accurately eyeball the effects of the movements and then use the zoom function only to spot-check the final focus.

I've also revised the bellows mounting plate and am temporarily using rubber bands to hold the bellows against it. Ultimately, I am going to use some industrial-strength, double-stick tape from 3M to do so, but have had to order that -- for some reason, the local hardware store doesn't stock it ... go figure -- and it's not here yet.

And Yes, I still need to address some cosmetic details, but onward and upward!



Jan 09, 2017 at 01:08 PM
rdeloe
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Very nice! That's a clever solution to use the panel.

Regarding just the A7r display, I use my A7r with two Mirex tilt-shift adapters so I know exactly what you mean. I've found that focusing peaking is a reasonable starting point, especially if you begin the tilt at the widest aperture. But for the finer detail I definitely have to scan up and down the image (or left and right if it's a swing rather than a tilt). I don't find it too bothersome; I use the 2nd level of magnification (so not 14x) and start at the top after putting my best guess for the tilt angle in, then move up and down as I adjust focus and tilt.

Anyway, thanks for posting your experiments.



Jan 09, 2017 at 01:14 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Instead of buying a cheap, Chinese-made lens adapter and then harvesting the camera mount by whittling it down, as I originally did, this time around, I bought a camera mount for a Cambo Actus:



As you can see, it mounts to the board with four screws, which means I can swap my Sony E-mount version for another one, for a different camera, in just a minute or two.

Of course, the DSLR-type cameras, with their longer lens registers, will be limited to using the medium-format Contax 645 lenses, but the ones with shorter registers (such as the Fuji X-series or m4/3 cameras) should be able to use the 35mm format Contax N lenses as well.

Personally, I'm curious about trying it with my friend's Pentax K-1 and its pixel-stitching feature. Once I have this camera more fully finished, I'll probably order another mount, so I can give that combo a shot (no pun intended!)



Jan 09, 2017 at 06:15 PM
pinholecam
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Nice work!

I am curious though...
Is this really better in IQ than just using a 36-42mp FF and a pano head?

The weight/size/portability would be smaller.
Both would be multi framed and need stitching work.



Jan 09, 2017 at 08:50 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


pinholecam wrote
Is this really better in IQ than just using a 36-42mp FF and a pano head?


Absolutely! Because unlike most photographers, I'm not using it to stitch multiple images.

Instead, I'm using it to have rise/fall/shift movements, so I can crop photos pre-exposure, and swing/tilt movements, so I can alter the orientation of the plane of focus/extend DoF.

None of which a pano head can do, so these two solutions really are not alternatives to each other for my purposes.






Jan 09, 2017 at 09:08 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


rdeloe wrote:
Regarding just the A7r display, I use my A7r with two Mirex tilt-shift adapters so I know exactly what you mean. I've found that focusing peaking is a reasonable starting point, especially if you begin the tilt at the widest aperture. But for the finer detail I definitely have to scan up and down the image (or left and right if it's a swing rather than a tilt). I don't find it too bothersome; I use the 2nd level of magnification (so not 14x) and start at the top after putting my best guess for the tilt angle in, then
...Show more

Most of my photography is done at night, which typically makes the preview image on the LCD quite noisy. It's been my experience that focus peaking doesn't work very well in this situation, because it's difficult to distinguish the peaks from the noise.

Of course, using a monitor doesn't change this, but its larger size does make it easier to focus the image through the noise. That said, I haven't tried it yet with focus peaking on, but I will the next time I go out. 8^)




Jan 09, 2017 at 09:12 PM
PhotoMaximum
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


How is the image IQ and lag delay on this display? Very cool project by the way...


Jan 10, 2017 at 06:50 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


PhotoMaximum wrote:
How is the image IQ and lag delay on this display? Very cool project by the way...




I can't speak to its lag (or its lack thereof, as the case may be), because I only photograph still scenes, where there are no moving parts.

As to IQ, however, I can say that of the four portable HDMI monitors I purchased and tested, this one is both the best performer and the least expensive.

Its resolution is 1920 x 1200, so FullHD, and the image on the screen (in a 3:2 format) measures just over 6" diagonally. Its screen is plenty bright (and also comes with a hood that can be installed when necessary) and it offers a decent range of adjustments, although I couldn't quite make it match the look of the A7R's OEM LCD.

Overall, I'd say its IQ is at least equal to the A7R's OEM LCD, except the image is displayed much larger and potentially much brighter, depending upon how the monitor is set. Oh, and I also like that there are no overlays on the screen when it's in use, unlike with many other monitors I researched.

Mind you, this monitor is pretty bare-bones in terms of features, but that's okay by me, because all I need or want is a large, clean image, so I can judge the effects of using tilt and swing movements. Anything else is superfluous for my needs and a waste per my limited budget.

The only drawback I've found with it so far is battery life, as the one that was shipped with it seems to last for only 45 minutes to an hour, depending upon how bright the screen is set, and that's only half to a third of my typical outing, so I'm going to need to buy extras.



Jan 10, 2017 at 07:58 PM
JohnBrose
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


fyi, you can usually get the double stick tape at auto parts stores, it's used to put trim on cars.


Jan 10, 2017 at 08:51 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


JohnBrose wrote:
fyi, you can usually get the double stick tape at auto parts stores, it's used to put trim on cars.


I'm also a bit of a car nut, so I was aware of that. Heck, I even a partial roll of some in my detailer's kit!

But in this case, I needed something thinner than the usual car stuff, because I'm trying to maximize the amount of space between the bellows frames.

Every little bit counts and by doing so, I believe there's a good chance that I can successfully mount other camera bodies and lenses on this camera and still focus them at infinity and have some amount of movements available.







Jan 10, 2017 at 09:36 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


rdeloe wrote:
I've found that focusing peaking is a reasonable starting point, especially if you begin the tilt at the widest aperture.


So based upon your comment above, I just turned on focus peaking and was surprised to discover that it doesn't show up on the HDMI monitor, only on the A7R's LCD.

And the monitor I bought (Aputure VS-1 FineHD) doesn't offer focus peaking, either, so that's that.

However, the next monitor up in the range -- the VS-2 FineHD -- does offer it, along with several other features that are probably useful to other users.

But it also costs an additional $80, so you pays your money, etc.



Jan 10, 2017 at 11:38 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


So I've made another revision, this time to the recessed lens board:



As you can see, the front of the lens mount on the A7R body can now touch the back of the recessed lens board (i.e., the lens board is not flat, but extends through the front standard, which locates the lens closer to the sensor.) When the lens board and lens mount are touching,* this represents the absolute minimum lens register the FrankenKamera can accommodate (or at least until it becomes possible to add a spacer of negative thickness!)

I accomplished this by extending the lens board's recess by an additional .125", over and above the .375" I had extended it previously. I did this by adding a piece of .125" thick aluminum plate to the back of the lens board, holding it (and the .375" piece of aluminum I attached previously) in place with four screws. I then drilled a center hole through it, as well as four holes for the screws that hold the lens mount in place. Then I smoothed and shaped it, filled the seams with some bondo, smoothed and sanded those, and finally, painted it with a flat, gray automotive primer. (The last two steps of which I probably should redo, because in the cold, harsh light of day, the end result looks a bit rough and ragged.)

One alternative approach would be to further reduce the width of the rail clamp that mounts between the front and rear standards, as well as mounts the camera to the tripod, but it's already as narrow as I dare make it and making it any narrower will make the camera less rigid, which isn't desirable. Another approach would be to mount both standards on one side of the rail clamp, so there's nothing separating them, but this makes the camera/tripod combo less stable, because it cantilevers weight away from the CoG, which I wanted to avoid as well. I suppose there is also some additional space that could be gained by reducing the thickness of the A7R's lens mount, but it's already fairly thin as it comes from the factory and if I ever want to connect to the electrical connects located therein -- so I could, say, control the electronic lens aperture from the A7R body -- this will definitely complicate matters.

So, you ask, what is the practical result of this work?

That's easy to answer: My FrankenKamera can now be easily adapted to accommodate nearly every existing 35 mm-format DSLR and mirrorless camera body -- as well as the upcoming Fuji GFX! -- and 35 mm and medium-format lenses (although not necessarily every combination of the two), so I will not be forever limited to using just a Sony A7R body and Contax N and 645 series lenses with it.

In short, it is now very likely future-proofed for many years to come.

* For the sake of clarity, I haven't shown the bellows mounting plate that attaches to the A7R's lens mount, which takes up an additional 10.65 mm of space between the lensboard and the A7R's lens mount.



Jan 12, 2017 at 01:30 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


So, after two outings with the camera (and a visit with the police due to an unhappy homeowner, but that's another story...), plus a trip to the local Post Office lobby, where I weighed the camera and found it to be noticeably heavier than I had hoped -- 8 lbs., 3.2 ounces! -- I've decided to revise it yet again, in order to reduce its weight by at least two pounds, if not more.



I've gone back to using the Toyo VX-23D's OEM rear standard, in place of the modified Toyo Robos rear standard I was using on the last version. I have also removed the uprights, which unfortunately means I am giving up the rear rise/fall movements (at least directly, because I can always use indirect movements by tilting the camera rail and then tilting both the front and rear standards to vertical, as was often done in the olden days), and I'll be adding a 1/4" aluminum plate to the top of the rear standard so I can mount the A7R body as shown in the photo above without drilling any holes in it.

I have also swapped a few parts around for lighter alternatives (such as the camera rail) and disabled some features I won't be using (such as rear swing) and removed the parts associated with them, etc. in order to remove yet more weight from the camera. As I learned when preparing racing cars over the years, ounces lost here and there ultimately add up to pounds, so every tiny big of weight loss helps! As shown above, my best guess is that this version will be ~2.75 lbs. lighter than previous version, which is very nearly a third!

As a bonus, this latest version will also be physically smaller and more compact, which is also welcome.



Jan 17, 2017 at 02:25 PM
Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Audii-Dudii wrote:
So, after two outings with the camera (and a visit with the police due to an unhappy homeowner, but that's another story...), plus a trip to the local Post Office lobby, where I weighed the camera and found it to be noticeably heavier than I had hoped -- 8 lbs., 3.2 ounces! -- I've decided to revise it yet again, in order to reduce its weight by at least two pounds, if not more.

http://www.canyonero.com/files/1484611340.jpg

I've gone back to using the Toyo VX-23D's OEM rear standard, in place of the modified Toyo Robos rear standard I was using on the last version.
...Show more

Okay, let's have the story of "The Neighbor and the Police"!



Jan 17, 2017 at 05:16 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Gunzorro wrote:
Okay, let's have the story of "The Neighbor and the Police"!


Remember, you asked!

* * * * * *

Most of the photography I do these days is actually done late at night. Three years ago, I quit my paralegal job in order to take care of my elderly father after he fell and first broke one hip, then the other, as well as my disabled sister, who survived a ruptured brain aneurysm just over a decade ago.

He had been her caretaker, but after his hip fractures, he was no longer able to take care of himself, let alone her, so I had step in and take over. Because I am their sole caretaker, the only time I can leave the house is after they go to bed, and even then, I can't wander very far, because I might need to return home quickly if something should happen to either of them. (And because living on savings for the past three years means I'm on a very tight budget, this is why I built my own digital view camera instead of simply buying a Cambo Actus or Arca-Swiss Universalis. Plus I sometimes have time to kill during the day, so this was a good excuse for a project.)

So I walk around my neighborhood at night on foot, with my dog and camera, and photograph whatever scenes catch my eye. (The curious can see some sample photos at my photo-blog: https://audiidudii.aminus3.com/)

After I spent the last few weeks finishing up work on this phase of my project, I finally took my FrankenKamera IV out to do some real, honest-to-god photography, not just to take more test shots. But at the very first scene where I setup to take a photo, I quickly realized that I forgot to bring a memory card with me ... doh!

As I'm standing there, deciding whether to skip the photography and turn the outing into a dog walk instead, or go home, get a memory card, and carry on with it, a homeowner storms out of their house, gets all confrontational with me, threatens to the call the police, and when that doesn't cause me to budge, actually does call the police.

So now I have to wait around until the police arrive -- in two cars, of course! -- because I never want to give people the impression that I have anything to hide or was doing anything illegal by leaving a scene I was photographing after they've threatened to call the police, and it took nearly 30 minutes for the cops to arrive, because they didn't consider this a very high-priority call.

Then I had to wait another 20+ minutes while they talked with the homeowners, because now the man's wife is also involved, and explain to them that not only was I not doing anything illegal per any known federal, state, county, or city law, I'm also not a homeowner, so am not bound by their HOA's alleged rule that "prohibits the photography of houses in their subdivision without the homeowner's permission." <rolls eyes>

(And Yes, even the cops laughed politely at that assertion.)

According to the police officer who spoke with them at length, their primary concern was that their three young children were asleep inside their house and they were concerned about their safety. As such, it was absolutely unacceptable to them that someone could stand outside their house at night with a camera and photograph it without either their knowledge or permission.

Mind you, I wasn't setting up to photograph their house, but the house across the street. And as for their three young kids, they were inside their house and I wasn't, so I'm not exactly certain how they came to think that either me or my camera were potentially going to cause them any harm. He was also not amused when I pointed out the hypocrisy of his complaining about my photographing the house across the street when he had three security cameras mounted on the front his house and they were all pointed at it, too. Why, I asked him, is it okay for you to photograph that house 24 hours per day, seven days per week, but not okay for me to photograph it once with my one camera? Needless to say, he didn't have an answer for me, let alone a good one.

Fortunately, these cops were pretty cool, all in all, so at least they weren't hassling me too, which, unfortunately, has happened in the past with other cops.

On the positive side, at least based upon my composing and focusing an image and getting the camera setup to take a photo, even though I couldn't without a memory card, it appears the FrankenKamera IV was going to work very well indeed for me, so there is that. 8^)

On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if this situation would have blown up to the extent that it did, if I had been using the small, inconspicuous camera (Sony RX1) that I've used for most of the past two years, instead of this new, large, imposing one, with all its knobs and appendages, external 7" HDMI monitor, etc. This is one of the reasons why I decided to make my camera both smaller and lighter, and also less menacing-looking, too.

Lastly, I also wonder how he might have reacted had I been armed, as I sometimes am, because both open and concealed carry without a permit are legal in Arizona. Hmm...



Jan 17, 2017 at 08:15 PM
Gunzorro
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Thanks! It makes a great read. Sorry you you had to go through that. (More sorry you forgot your memory card! Doh!)

I've encountered similar, but not quite such confrontational residents, and police, in broad daylight.

I'm sure you are correct that an inconspicuous camera causes less alarm. Although, if I were actually "casing a joint", I'd be sure to use a cell phone and not a tripod mounted, or even large DSLR that draws attention!



Jan 18, 2017 at 09:43 AM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Gunzorro wrote:
Thanks! It makes a great read. Sorry you you had to go through that. (More sorry you forgot your memory card! Doh!)


Over the past going on eight years that I've been photographing mostly at night, I've had a lot of run-ins with homeless people, security guards, and even police officers (who should know the applicable law, but sometimes don't.) But I've had only maybe a dozen with homeowners and of those, only three have been negative encounters, such as this latest one.

In fact, it's been over 18 months since my last negative encounter of any kind, so I was actually caught off-guard by it. I'm usually happy to show people my camera and explain my photography to them, but when they're all up in my face right from the start, I generally respond in-kind and proportionally, as was the case with this latest incident. At least the homeowners are now familiar with the law covering such matters, so perhaps in the future, they'll respond more civilly ... one can only hope, anyway.

I've encountered similar, but not quite such confrontational residents, and police, in broad daylight.

When I was working, I used to travel frequently to NYC for depositions and always tried to find some time to walk around photographing on the street. Given the reputation of New Yorkers, I was surprised by how little grief I was given by them, even when I was photographing late at night. In fact, the only real issues I ever had occurred while I was walking across bridges with my camera on a tripod over my shoulder -- where else could I put it? -- because most of the bridges have "no cameras allowed" signs posted at each end.

I assumed that simply carrying my camera across a bridge while I crossed it on foot using the sidewalk would be okay and the prohibition applied just to using it, but apparently not, because I was stopped by a bridge-and-tunnel cop nearly every time I did so. (This is a ridiculous law for many reasons, not the least of which is that anybody who is carrying a cell phone in a pocket while on foot or while driving or riding across the bridge in a vehicle -- which is probably just about everybody these days -- is also breaking the law. As are Post Office employees and the drivers of UPS and FedEx trucks that are carrying packages containing cameras or cell phones. But again, I digress...)

I'm sure you are correct that an inconspicuous camera causes less alarm. Although, if I were actually "casing a joint", I'd be sure to use a cell phone and not a tripod mounted, or even large DSLR that draws attention!

Likewise. And I wouldn't have my friendly, attention-seeking, white standard poodle with me, either!



Jan 18, 2017 at 10:49 AM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


With the exception of painting the unfinished pieces of aluminum (it was far too cold and wet here today to paint them outdoors and no way was I going to paint them indoors!), adding an external battery bank to power the monitor and/or camera body (and possibly a small, USB-powered booklight as well, to make working with the camera in the dark easier than it is with me holding a flashlight in one hand), and lastly, gaining control over the lenses' electronic apertures, however I end up deciding to do it, I think I'm pretty much done with FrankenKamera V at this point.

It certainly is now functional again and if the rain stops later today, I may take it out tonight to taunt and menace my neighbors, and perhaps even take a few photos, too ... lol.

Here are a few photos of it that I took late this afternoon in my shower-stall studio:







In my effort to make the camera both smaller and lighter, I swapped quite a few parts and made a number of design changes compared to the last version. But most of the changes are fairly minor, so I wouldn't expect anybody to notice them and I won't go into the details here (unless you really want to know, of course, in which case, I'll be happy to recite all of them for you ... just ask!)

Alas, because of the rain today, I haven't taken it to the Post Office to see how much weight I've been able to lop off (or frighten any postal customers!), but it definitely feels noticeably lighter when I lift the camera / tripod combo with one hand, so I am expecting to be very pleased when I do. 8^)



Jan 20, 2017 at 08:23 PM
Audii-Dudii
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · My digital view camera lives again! (crosspost from Sony forum)


Here's a quick snapshot of 17 mm worth of Zeiss goodness that I took from the end of my driveway earlier this afternoon:



Contax N 17-35 @ 17mm and f8, plus a little bit of front tilt, rear swing, and front rise movements applied.

It's turning out that the smeared corners I sometimes experience with this lens toward the short end of its focal range may actually be the result of excessive field curvature. By focusing a little bit closer and using small amounts of tilt and swing movements to optimally position the plane of focus, I can "crisp them up" just enough so they're not nearly as annoying -- potentially adequate, even! -- while simultaneously keeping the primary subject sharp, too.

Needless to say, I'm beginning to get really excited about this camera's potential, although I expect that working through the collective application of all these movements in the dark is going to prove quite a challenge.

A fun challenge, to be sure, but a challenge nonetheless.



Jan 21, 2017 at 07:39 PM





FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

You are not logged in. Login or Register

Username       Or Reset password



This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.