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Archive 2016 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???

  
 
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Looking for a nice 35mm lens for the a7RII.

I would prefer to avoid using a DLSR lens & larger adapter. So, thinking one of the smaller M series options. Getting down to f/1.2 or f/1.4 means a bigger, heavier lens. I would prefer to stay as small as possible with maintaining the best IQ I can find (for the money).

I think I am narrowing it down to either the Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH or the Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron.

Seems like there are good options of a used Summicron but not so many of the used Ultrons in the wild.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Edited on Dec 26, 2016 at 03:31 PM · View previous versions



Dec 26, 2016 at 03:16 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


If you get a Summicron ASPH, you have to make sure you get the new model just released this year that has been redesigned for digital. Even this lens has its problems on the Son7 A7rII, but the older version had quite bad smearing in the edges and corners that never went away. From samples I think even the new lens doesn't perform as well as I would like. Getting the new Summicron ASPH will also make it more than the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4, which in my view performs better and is a stop faster than the Summicron ASPH. For me the Summicron ASPH was a non-starter.
In contrast the CV 35 f/1.7 has quite a bit of field curvature on the A7rII, but if that is taken into account it seems to produce very nice images. You should read Phillip Reeve's review on his sight. It is an excellent review, in my view. I think this lens is a decent value and other than the ZM 35 f/1.4 I think this lens performs as well as any other rangefinder lens on the A7rII. Another contender, however, might be the 35 summicron version IV. I here good things about this lens and have seen a number of good shots with it.



Dec 26, 2016 at 03:27 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


The Ultron is 2.1x2.0" and weighs 8.4 oz. Current price is now $779 at B&H. (was $979).

The Zeiss ZM Distagon is 2.5x2.6" and weighs 13.4 oz. Current price is now $2,290 at B&H.

The ZM is a little faster at f/1.4 vs f/1.7 for the Ultron.




Dec 26, 2016 at 04:00 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


PhotoMaximum wrote:
The Ultron is 2.1x2.0" and weighs 8.4 oz. Current price is now $779 at B&H. (was $979).

The Zeiss ZM Distagon is 2.5x2.6" and weighs 13.4 oz. Current price is now $2,290 at B&H.

The ZM is a little faster at f/1.4 vs f/1.7 for the Ultron.



No question the Ultron is smaller and cheaper than the Zeiss ZM, but the Leica 35 cron ASPH is even more expensive than the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4 especially since you need to get one of the revised ones. You can get the Zeiss ZM significantly cheaper if you look around. Many on the board around here have picked theirs up for $1,500 to $1,600 often from Hong Kong, but that is still significantly more expensive than the ultron.



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:04 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Good info...

If a Leica sales site says a Summicron ASPH lens is the "6-bit coded" version does that mean it is one of the later, revised versions you describe?



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:09 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


PhotoMaximum wrote:
Good info...

If a Leica sales site says a Summicron ASPH lens is the "6-bit coded" version does that mean it is one of the later, revised versions you describe?


No, you have to look at the product code (or the serial number) and make sure it matches the new model. Most 6-bit coded Summicron ASPH lenses are not modified for digital and will perform quite poorly on the A7rII and as I said I think even the new modified for digital Summicron ASPH doesn't perform all that well.



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:18 PM
robgo2
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


I have the Ultron 35/1.7 VM and like it very much. However, on A7 series cameras, it suffers from significant field curvature, heavy vignetting and color shifts (not so much on the A7Rii.) You can deal with the latter two issues with the Adobe Flat Field Correction plugin (for Lightroom or PS) or with CornerFix (all other raw converters.) The results are excellent.

However, after reading so many rave reviews of the ZM 35/1.4 on this site, I recently broke down and bought a new copy that was being discounted and also qualified for a Zeiss rebate. The final cost to me was $1650. Is the ZM superior to the Ultron on my A7ii? Yes, indeed, in almost every way. Does the larger size bother me? Not at all, because it's still not very large, and it balances well on the camera. The ZM does have some field curvature, but much less than the Ultron. It's not the fault of the lens, but of the thick filter stack on the Sony sensor.

Just my opinion.

Rob



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:23 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Good info again.

This lens will not be for major infinity landscape or architecture work. I like the 24 TS-E II for that. But I am looking for real sharpness, pleasing rendering and light weight in a compact carry it around 35 that will be fun to use.

Right now (with more reading) the Ultron is looking like a solid contender.



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:25 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


robgo2 wrote:
I have the Ultron 35/1.7 VM and like it very much. However, on A7 series cameras, it suffers from significant field curvature, heavy vignetting and color shifts (not so much on the A7Rii.) You can deal with the latter two issues with the Adobe Flat Field Correction plugin (for Lightroom or PS) or with CornerFix (all other raw converters.) The results are excellent.

However, after reading so many rave reviews of the ZM 35/1.4 on this site, I recently broke down and bought a new copy that was being discounted and also qualified for a Zeiss rebate. The final cost to
...Show more

Rob, thanks for review. Say, would you happen to have any pics of the same scene shot with both lenses?



Dec 26, 2016 at 04:46 PM
robgo2
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


PhotoMaximum wrote:
Rob, thanks for review. Say, would you happen to have any pics of the same scene shot with both lenses?


Unfortunately, I do not at the moment. However, I think that you will find the Ultron 35/1.7 to be an excellent performer, as long as you are aware of its limitations on A7 series cameras and how to deal with them. I have actually been quite happy with mine, but the grass is always greener....

Rob




Dec 26, 2016 at 06:05 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


No worries, thanks for checking in though.


Dec 26, 2016 at 07:01 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


I did some digging and found a long, detailed FM thread on this same quest. {is it better to reserrect old threads or start fresh?}}

Anyway, there seems to be quite a few fans of both lenses. The CV seems to get quite close to the ZM performance for a lot less money. I also like the reduced size and weight. The awkward focus ring on the CV is a concern though?

Full disclosure: I really should not be buying either 35mm lens. I own a really nice MC W. Rokkor - HH 35/1.8 lens that has been previously converted to the EF mount. This lens is in fabulous condition. It has a long silky focus action. It is quite long when attached to the MB IV adapter though. Adapting this lens to the EF mount was difficult: some precision mount thickness and careful rear lens element shaving & blackening in order to get close to (but not full) infinity focus on FF Canon cameras. This conversion was done before the whole Sony mirrorless craze started.

Ideally it would be fun to test the CV, ZM and Rokkor 35s against each other, but that might be tough to organize. The Rokkor 35/1.8 is a seldom used lens in my stable; I should probably take it out more now before spending any more money.

I appreciate the guidance in this thread though!



Dec 26, 2016 at 08:41 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


I'm a fan of the CV. The ZM is a great lens, without doubt. But the CV is IMO a greater deal in respect to price vs. performance... if you can mitigate the field curvature problem on Sony cameras. Good to see the price has come down somewhat for the black version. It seemed for some time the US importer(s) maintained an artificially high price for it vs. the chrome model compared to some overseas markets.

Obviously one solution is the Kolari sensor modification. But maybe before you decide, if you can wait a few weeks, you should see how the Front-End Filter Improves Corner Smearing thread pans out and if anyone tries this solution on the CV. Fixing its lackluster Sony performance might be as simple as a ~$100 front-end plano-convex lens (though at the risk of making the front end of the lens somewhat larger).

Edited on Dec 26, 2016 at 09:44 PM · View previous versions



Dec 26, 2016 at 09:18 PM
JaKo
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Fixing the its lackluster Sony performance <-- Perhaps, and it applies to all RF lenses, "fixing [their] lackluster performance" on Sony maybe the alt option by adding some few mm front aid to the lenses, if one wishes
That's the price to pay for mixing and matching systems; no fault intended even if Loxia lenses won't perform as well on M cameras (well, Loxia 21/2.8 may)


As for "The awkward focus ring on the CV" - it is no more awkward than tabs on some Leica lenses, but only if you haven't used it. ZM35D seems to blend both in a positive way with its mini-tab and great feel of focusing ring.


Out of the blue:
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/20161225_0006_640.jpg



Dec 26, 2016 at 09:40 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


I did a super quick test, using my favorite model, with the a7RII & Minolta Rokkor - HH 35/1.8 (converted to EF mount) using the MB IV T.

Shot at ISO 400, 1/30th (hand held) wide open at f/1.8. Not too bad...



Minimal PP work and this is 100% of the image. Probably way less vignetting and added corners than I would expect with the Ultron?



Dec 27, 2016 at 02:56 PM
gyoung143
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???




Steve Spencer wrote:
If you get a Summicron ASPH, you have to make sure you get the new model just released this year that has been redesigned for digital. Even this lens has its problems on the Son7 A7rII, but the older version had quite bad smearing in the edges and corners that never went away. From samples I think even the new lens doesn't perform as well as I would like. Getting the new Summicron ASPH will also make it more than the Zeiss ZM 35 f/1.4, which in my view performs better and is a stop faster than the Summicron
...Show more

I thought the general consensus was that the new 35 asph Summicron was the same optically as the old, even Leica's keenest fans seem to have problems discerning a reason for the change. My asph Summicron 35 was virtually useless at distance on the A7 because of curvature of field.

Gerry



Dec 27, 2016 at 03:03 PM
rscheffler
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Re: new Cron.... An excuse for the updated hood style? Aren't there also more aperture blades now? But yeah, optically it seems pretty much the same. After the 50AA, you'd think there might be some motivation to do the same at 35mm.

I tried the new version at a Leica store on the M240 and suspect it was a suboptimal copy. Uneven across-frame sharpness. Didn't see anything to make me want to leave the Ultron but did prefer it's ergonomics.



Dec 27, 2016 at 03:25 PM
expwmbat
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


PhotoMaximum wrote:
I did a super quick test, using my favorite model, with the a7RII & Minolta Rokkor - HH 35/1.8 (converted to EF mount) using the MB IV T.

Shot at ISO 400, 1/30th (hand held) wide open at f/1.8. Not too bad...

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa242/Photomaximum/shaun_35rokkor_zpsmztxtvba.jpg

Minimal PP work and this is 100% of the image. Probably way less vignetting and added corners than I would expect with the Ultron?



That looks outstanding to me--what complaints do you have with it?



Dec 27, 2016 at 05:26 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


This is the very first pic I have taken with the Rokkor 35/1.8 using the a7RII.

I need to shoot more with this lens and see how it goes.

PROs:

* I own the lens.
* It is in great condition.
* f/1.8 is fast enough for a 35mm for me.
* Really nice solid Minolta Rokkor quality.
* Maybe less vignetting and soft corner issues when compared to range finder lenses.
* Pretty good close focus. Better than range finder lenses but the Hawks close focus adapter should help with M lenses.

CONs:

* The previous Minolta to Canon EF mount conversion was tricky. On the rear lens mount there is a machined little indent hole for the spring lens mount pin present on Canon EOS cameras. For the sake of longevity you must take care in handling to avoid damaging this sensitive area.

* This is sort of a long lens already. When you add the Metabones EF-FE adaptor it looks and handles like a telephoto.

* Although the Rokkor focus action is buttery smooth the focus throw is massive. To twist from 12" to infinity takes a ton of twisting.

On paper the pros outweigh the cons big time. Still I would love to do a test with this lens against the ZM and the LC.



Dec 27, 2016 at 06:05 PM
PhotoMaximum
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Leica Summicron 35/2 ASPH vs. Voitlander 35 1.7 Ultron ???


Well, crazy me...

I ordered the 35/1.7 Ultron. It might be here tomorrow!



Dec 28, 2016 at 08:43 PM
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