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Archive 2016 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...

  
 
RustyBug
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


At what distance do you find that you adjust your expectations of detail loss due to atmospheric effects when shooting long glass for birds, etc. ?

In other words, what is the limit to your comfort zone for expecting to get great feather detail?



Dec 21, 2016 at 12:20 AM
EB-1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


How are feathers a measure of anything?

EBH



Dec 21, 2016 at 12:27 AM
AvianScott
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


It's really hard to quantify a number without a knowing what the atmospheric conditions are. On a calm morning with little atmospheric distortion, the distance without degradation will be significantly greater than shooting mid-day in bright sunlight with heat shimmers coming off the ground.

Based on conditions I normally shoot in, I chose 50-100.

Edited on Dec 21, 2016 at 10:30 AM · View previous versions



Dec 21, 2016 at 12:29 AM
rw11
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


he must be using the barbs as criteria for sharpness (or maybe barbicels if he has a really great lens & sensor)


I guess we need to know how much mist or dust is in the atmosphere too...



Dec 21, 2016 at 12:31 AM
KKFung
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


My area the pollution is so bad, I voted 50-100. I believe 100-300 is the average


Dec 21, 2016 at 02:36 AM
Paul Mo
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...




KKFung wrote:
My area the pollution is so bad, I voted 50-100. I believe 100-300 is the average


Same. Dust from ceaseless province-wide construction and humidity also being factors.



Dec 21, 2016 at 02:43 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


No idea because it depends on the atmospheric conditions on that day wherever you are. But I guess I'd say 50-100 is when you won't get all that much fine feather detail but you can still get a very sharp shot at that distance or further.


Dec 21, 2016 at 06:50 AM
KKFung
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


Paul Mo wrote:
Same. Dust from ceaseless province-wide construction and humidity also being factors.


I think our area have the similar humidity too, I always think that the air between the subject and the camera is a part of the lens in the system.



Dec 21, 2016 at 09:45 AM
LuckyStrike
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


I'll jump in here as I have certainly seen atmosphere as a factor in getting a decent shot.

I can not honestly vote on a distance because there are a few other factors.
I vividly recall my first big shoot with my brand new 300 2.8ii and 7D2 ... Herons were my fav subject matter at themoment and I had some time to head to one of the beaches where I enjoyed photographing them. It was an unusually warm June and I started late morning ... The herons were thick as fleas on a coyotes back and I was giddy with excitement.... New rock solid tripod, gimbal head and my new lens. I shot over 300 frames ..... Home to process and after a couple disappointing hours... Not a single keeper
The humid air had taken away my ability to shoot a clean image (plus a small mf glitch)

I learned quickly that seasons, temperature, proximity to water, time of day(sun angle) air quality , etc. plays a huge roll in getting a good shot.

Where I live on Vancouver Island, Winter weather can be fantastic all day long , especially on clear or light overcast days ... Low sun angle and cool temperatures add extra distance to image sharpness.

LuckyT




Dec 21, 2016 at 10:30 AM
Robin Smith
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


It will depend entirely on atmospheric conditions on the day in question. On a cold dry day the distance could be 300 ft+ but on a hot summer day with rising thermals from a road or parking lot in between you and the subject you might never get an undistorted, in focus, shot.


Dec 21, 2016 at 10:53 AM
Greg Schneider
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


Would it not depend on your focal length to some extent? A 600 w/2x is going to compress that haze and lose more detail than a 400mm would, although the subject would be larger in the frame so perhaps it's a wash in the end...


Dec 21, 2016 at 11:01 AM
gdanmitchell
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


There is no single answer to this question — far to many variables to generalize in this way.


Dec 21, 2016 at 11:05 AM
Paul Tessier
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


It really depends on the day and the conditions on hand. Humidity, heat or rapid temperature changes, wind, shooting over water that is warmer than the air, smog, dust, ect. All of these things can have an effect to various degrees. For detail the closer the better.


Dec 21, 2016 at 11:11 AM
John_T
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


...changes all the time, even minute to minute..







37 kilometers







100 meters




Dec 21, 2016 at 01:28 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


Yes it sure does depend on focal length also. That is why people who try to make up for poor field craft and buy a 1200mm lens are sorely disappointed.

Greg Schneider wrote:
Would it not depend on your focal length to some extent? A 600 w/2x is going to compress that haze and lose more detail than a 400mm would, although the subject would be larger in the frame so perhaps it's a wash in the end...




Dec 21, 2016 at 04:04 PM
WrightImage
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


I've had a lot of OOF shots the last week! We have had snow and below 0 windchill with lots of sun and although cold I can see the heat shimmer through my viewfinder at 700mm! Its been very frustrating as I was/am afraid I might have a lens issue. I've tried the 6D, 7D and even broke out my old 40D and have had problems with all three. Yesterday I got a few snaps of some Trumpeter Swans feeding in a snow covered corn field and got a few keepers but you could see the atmosphere was volatile! oh ya also I try to have my windows down so the dirty air doesn't screw things up


Dec 21, 2016 at 05:40 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


WrightImage wrote:
I've had a lot of OOF shots the last week! We have had snow and below 0 windchill with lots of sun and although cold I can see the heat shimmer through my viewfinder at 700mm! Its been very frustrating as I was/am afraid I might have a lens issue. I've tried the 6D, 7D and even broke out my old 40D and have had problems with all three. Yesterday I got a few snaps of some Trumpeter Swans feeding in a snow covered corn field and got a few keepers but you could see the atmosphere was volatile! oh
...Show more

It will happen in cold weather just as often as summer heat haze type weather. Also in winter unless you let the inside of the car cool all the way down to the outside temperature you will get blurry shots if you shoot from a car window.



Dec 21, 2016 at 05:55 PM
John_T
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


I like shooting at higher altitudes = less atmosphere. For the image I posted above, I am shooting from 2,000 meters to the subject at 3,500 meters above seal level. The same shot from even 1,000 meters would be near impossible.

Shooting from 2,000 meters down to 500 meters at the same time as the high altitude shot, ah well, you can easily recover your old familiar haze, Sahara dust, heat distortion, etc., 50 megapickles and 560mm FL are of no help at all.












100%




Dec 21, 2016 at 06:59 PM
splathrop
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


Distance less important than conditions.

Three good conditions:

1. Air and underlying land or water about equal in temperature, relatively windless. Can be very good.

2. Warm air over cooler water—typical spring conditions on seacoasts.

3. Humid air, with little or no wind—night conditions in Florida, sometimes. Shows up lots of places from time to time, day or night. Not optimally transparent for very long shots—can be great for detail at shorter distances.

Two bad conditions:

1. Very clear, dry air, with turbulent breeze—classic astronomer's setup for "bad seeing."

2. Cold dry air over warmer (but maybe still frigid) water. The worst.

At a web site for astronomers, "seeing" quality for thousands of localities around North America is forecast here: http://cleardarksky.com/csk/



Dec 21, 2016 at 08:31 PM
Iwas joeking
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Atmospheric conditions degrading image ...


Can occur at 20' , just depends on the conditions. If you put the camera in live view and magnify, you can see it blurring and clearing.


Dec 21, 2016 at 08:55 PM
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