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Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV
  
 
ggreene
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p.2 #1 · p.2 #1 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


Zenon Char wrote:
We'll see about the AF. I'd pay extra for a dedicated AF processor.


It's sad that Canon users have been put into this position. I say this because I was thinking the same thing. That I would pay extra for a 7D3 with 1DX2 type AF. Canon just isn't willing yet to offer 1D AF in a lower body like Nikon does.




Dec 12, 2016 at 05:19 PM
speedmaster20d
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p.2 #2 · p.2 #2 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


cpe1991 wrote:
Arash
You always use high shutter speeds for sharp images, even for perched birds. Do leave the IS on or do you turn it off?


Hi, yes IS is always ON. I try to keep my shutter speed high at all times, even perched birds can make sudden movements which will become blurry if you use a slow SS.

best



Dec 12, 2016 at 05:19 PM
nrferguson
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p.2 #3 · p.2 #3 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


splathrop wrote:
Super review. Did what a review ought to do—identified the most important unanswered questions and cleared them up. Convinced me that the new 5D IV is a great all around camera, and also that I probably won't buy one soon. The side-by-sides of the feather details is what did it—good improvement over the 5D III, but much less than you see with the 5DS-R. That plus the somewhat disappointing auto-focus report at f/8.

Put those together, and it seems like compared to the 5D IV, you might reasonably hope for better ultimate performance with a 5DS-R, using a 400 DO
...Show more
I agree except Arash's comments about the CFast card. I have 1Dx2 as well as a 5D3, but I would take exception to his comment to the effect that all 5D3 owners "will also have a 1DX2" and, although I agree that it is helpful to have the same memory media for all one cameras, the cost of CFast cards is at present ludicrously expensive - I could almost have bought a Sigma 150-600 lens for what I have spent on CFast cards for my 1DX2 (not that I need one!)
Niall



Dec 12, 2016 at 05:39 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #4 · p.2 #4 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


speedmaster20d wrote:
Hi, yes IS is always ON. I try to keep my shutter speed high at all times, even perched birds can make sudden movements which will become blurry if you use a slow SS.

best


Me too. I have shoot with IS on and I keep the SS pretty hight as well. I have noticed my keeper rate has gone up since using mode 3 on my 100-400 II. I think so based on my last outing. Need to do a few more.



Dec 12, 2016 at 09:01 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #5 · p.2 #5 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


arbitrage wrote:
I would expect and hope that the 7D3 has the full f/8 cababilities, more than the 80D or at least same as 80D but works with all f/8 combos and not just two of them. Although, I wonder if on the crop sensor the light is not able to reach the outer points on the 65 pt system in the 7D2 and that may limit giving it all 65 f/8 points. Or maybe they have a new and hopefully better system in the works for 7D3. I still think we will be waiting till 2018 for the 7D3 or else
...Show more

I agree. It is a ways off.



Dec 12, 2016 at 09:02 PM
mb126
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p.2 #6 · p.2 #6 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


How does the 5DIV do with Series II teles and series III 2x extender? Is this usable for large BIF (Eagles, etc.)? Is the 5DsR comparable?


Dec 13, 2016 at 01:19 AM
Jim McCann
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p.2 #7 · p.2 #7 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


Thank you very much for your hard work, Arash. Much appreciated. I'm getting a Mark IV soon and will also use it this spring on breeding upland grouse, and will do some remote camera work using the WiFi app on my iPhone.

Jim



Dec 13, 2016 at 01:50 AM
speedmaster20d
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p.2 #8 · p.2 #8 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


mb126 wrote:
How does the 5DIV do with Series II teles and series III 2x extender? Is this usable for large BIF (Eagles, etc.)? Is the 5DsR comparable?


As I mentioned in the review it's not great, It would not be my first choice for BIF unless you want to shoot gliding eagles against a sky BG. As for 5DSR I'd say it's worse because not only it is very slow but also limited to the center point only.

best




Dec 13, 2016 at 03:04 AM
cpe1991
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p.2 #9 · p.2 #9 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


speedmaster20d wrote:
As I mentioned in the review it's not great, It would not be my first choice for BIF unless you want to shoot gliding eagles against a sky BG. As for 5DSR I'd say it's worse because not only it is very slow but also limited to the center point only.

best



The 5DSR with a 400mm DO II + 1.4xTC has as good resolution as the 5DIV with the 2xTC (I have both). So, you can use the 5DSR at f/5.6 and 560mm with all focus points and a faster response for BIF, with the added advantage of a wider fov.



Dec 13, 2016 at 05:30 AM
mb126
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p.2 #10 · p.2 #10 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


Thank you, do you have any feeling if this is more because of the f/8 or the 2x itself? I am most interested in pairing with the 300 IS II for a super lightweight kit.
Thank you for your review!
Mark



Dec 13, 2016 at 12:15 PM
 

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cpe1991
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p.2 #11 · p.2 #11 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


mb126 wrote:
Thank you, do you have any feeling if this is more because of the f/8 or the 2x itself? I am most interested in pairing with the 300 IS II for a super lightweight kit.
Thank you for your review!
Mark


If it's the resolution you are asking about, the smaller pixels of the 5DS R combined with the shorter focal length with the 1.4xTC are close to compensating for the larger pixels of the 5DIV combined with the longer focal length with the 2xTC. It's not to do with f/8 vs f/5.6. The series II lenses with TC III converters focus faster with 1.4xTC than 2xTC with 5D series (from what I remember, Canon reduces the speed with the 1.4x by 25% and with the 2x by 50%)

Although you get a extra stop using the 1.4x rather than the 2x, I think the difference is illusory. The cropped image from the 1.4xTC on the more dense sensor at f/5.6 receives the same number of photons as the larger one from the 2xTC at f/8 spread over the same number of pixels on the less pixel dense sensor. So, at higher isos, the S/N is similar,




Dec 13, 2016 at 12:34 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #12 · p.2 #12 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


mb126 wrote:
Thank you, do you have any feeling if this is more because of the f/8 or the 2x itself? I am most interested in pairing with the 300 IS II for a super lightweight kit.
Thank you for your review!
Mark


In my experience (not with the 5D4) but with every other modern body, I believe it usually comes down to the max aperture more than the 2xTC itself. I found the 300 2.8 + 2xTCIII to be very good. The 400DOII +2xIII is still good but you need to put it on a 1DX2 to make it sing. Based on Arash's review it seems that even though the 5D4 has a full f/8 capable AF system, it isn't up to the performance of the 1DX2 at f/8.

But for you with the 300/2x at 5.6, I think it will do very well indeed. When I had that combo I felt it did very good on the 7D2 and the 1DX.



Dec 13, 2016 at 12:46 PM
cpe1991
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p.2 #13 · p.2 #13 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


arbitrage wrote:
In my experience (not with the 5D4) but with every other modern body, I believe it usually comes down to the max aperture more than the 2xTC itself. I found the 300 2.8 + 2xTCIII to be very good. The 400DOII +2xIII is still good but you need to put it on a 1DX2 to make it sing. Based on Arash's review it seems that even though the 5D4 has a full f/8 capable AF system, it isn't up to the performance of the 1DX2 at f/8.

But for you with the 300/2x at 5.6, I think it will do very
...Show more

Unlike the 5D and 7D series which are designed to slow down AF speed with 1.4 and 2xTCs, the 1DXII doesn't slow down AF. IQ-wise, the 5DIV is at least as good as or better than the 1DXII with TCS, but the AF is poorer. Arash's specialty is high speed capture of small birds in flight, at which he is a master. So, the 1DXII is a must for him. My specialty is perched and wading birds and large moving birds in flight, like eagles, falcons, ospreys, cranes etc. So, for me, the 5DIV is more suitable.




Dec 13, 2016 at 01:32 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #14 · p.2 #14 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


cpe1991 wrote:
Unlike the 5D and 7D series which are designed to slow down AF speed with 1.4 and 2xTCs, the 1DXII doesn't slow down AF. IQ-wise, the 5DIV is at least as good as or better than the 1DXII with TCS, but the AF is poorer. Arash's specialty is high speed capture of small birds in flight, at which he is a master. So, the 1DXII is a must for him. My specialty is perched and wading birds and large moving birds in flight, like eagles, falcons, ospreys, cranes etc. So, for me, the 5DIV is more suitable.



And I'm actually more in your camp than Arash's for my subjects. But I do love me some 14FPS for those action moments, wing flaps, squabbles etc....

None the less, I'm fairly sold on the swap from 5DSR to 5D4 but will wait it out a bit longer...



Dec 13, 2016 at 01:53 PM
dgdg
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p.2 #15 · p.2 #15 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


arbitrage wrote:
None the less, I'm fairly sold on the swap from 5DSR to 5D4 but will wait it out a bit longer...


Do you think you'll miss the 50mp?




Dec 13, 2016 at 02:51 PM
speedmaster20d
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p.2 #16 · p.2 #16 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


mb126 wrote:
Thank you, do you have any feeling if this is more because of the f/8 or the 2x itself? I am most interested in pairing with the 300 IS II for a super lightweight kit.
Thank you for your review!
Mark


Hi Mark, In the case of 5D cameras is because of the f/8, the signal from the AF sensors becomes weak with lower illumination so the CPU has to work double time to determine focus and reach convergence, it just becomes a bit too slow. The 1D cameras have a lot more horse power (dual CPU, fast logic board etc.) so the AF can keep up.

As for 300 II it really has no advantage over the 400 DO II, if that's what you were thinking. the latter will still give you 560mm f/5.6 which is comparable plus 800mm where needed for perched birds. It's a better choice, I compared the two in my review of the 400 DO II last year.

best



Dec 13, 2016 at 04:33 PM
arbitrage
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p.2 #17 · p.2 #17 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


dgdg wrote:
Do you think you'll miss the 50mp?



Maybe but I feel you need impeccable technique to get the full resolution out of it anyways. Usually I'm just as happy or more happy with my 20MP files from the 1DX2 or 18MP from the 1DX. I have done some nice super crops on the 5DSR when I shoot it from tripod or monopod but I handhold a lot and you just don't get all the MPs worth of info with big lenses and that camera...IMHO.

So I think the 30MP will be fine, better file sizes for travel and landscapes as I never feel the need for 50MP and that is what I use my 5 series for mostly. I have been using the 5DSR sort of like a crop camera pixel density with the benefit of no AA filter. But again there are so many limitations with low FPS and annoyingly slow image review on the rear LCD and buffer writing delay that I think I'd make more use out of the 5D4.

There will be some times that I will miss the 50MP though but the 5D4 seems a better fit for me at this time. Still the cost of switching is holding me back right now.....~$1100-1200CDN unless I find a used one for trade.



Dec 13, 2016 at 05:10 PM
Zenon Char
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p.2 #18 · p.2 #18 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


Something I noticed and I'm probably behind on everyone here on this because that is how I roll. The images look better when you click on them to expand them. As for the hawk it just looks like it was pushed too much. The cormorant comparisons look a lot closer. The cormorant head shot looks very good considering it has the 2X on it. Good detail in the orange area under the eye. Not that the 2X is a bad thing


Dec 13, 2016 at 05:29 PM
cpe1991
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p.2 #19 · p.2 #19 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


arbitrage wrote:
Maybe but I feel you need impeccable technique to get the full resolution out of it anyways. Usually I'm just as happy or more happy with my 20MP files from the 1DX2 or 18MP from the 1DX. I have done some nice super crops on the 5DSR when I shoot it from tripod or monopod but I handhold a lot and you just don't get all the MPs worth of info with big lenses and that camera...IMHO.

So I think the 30MP will be fine, better file sizes for travel and landscapes as I never feel the need for 50MP and
...Show more

Exactly my own experience too. You need impeccable technique to get the best from the 5DS R, and I use the 5DS R in the same way as you (please Canon drop the AA filter on more models). the 5DIV is easier to handle. I think 30 mpixels are the best compromise between resolution on the one hand and forgiving pixel size on the other.




Dec 13, 2016 at 06:28 PM
speedmaster20d
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p.2 #20 · p.2 #20 · Field review of the new Canon EOS-5D Mark IV


Zenon Char wrote:
Something I noticed and I'm probably behind on everyone here on this because that is how I roll. The images look better when you click on them to expand them. As for the hawk it just looks like it was pushed too much. The cormorant comparisons look a lot closer. The cormorant head shot looks very good considering it has the 2X on it. Good detail in the orange area under the eye. Not that the 2X is a bad thing


Which hawk image are you referring to?

And yes you do need to click on each image, the default view is compressed to fit in the browser.

As for the Extenders, Canon series III extenders have no visible impact on the sharpness when attached to a series II super-telephoto lens. Any short coming is usually due to operator error


best



Dec 13, 2016 at 08:05 PM
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