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Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?
  
 
jhinkey
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


I struggled with the Oly E-M1 for a year trying to make its menu system and external controls work for me - I particularly had it for use with my now-departed Oly 150/2 (maybe I shouldn't have sold it . . ). One thing that the E-M1 stood out for was use while skiing/hiking in cold wet weather. It was sold this past summer too.

So yesterday I'm out in the snow skiing with my GX7 and although it does OK it's just not a cold/wet capable camera. It is, however nice and compact and the Pana external controls and UI just work for me.

Which brings me to the GX8 - is it the E-M1 replacement for me?
- Weatherproof/resistant - the same as the E-M1?
- Has IBIS for my non OIS primes - not as good as the E-M1?
- Much larger than the GX7, but it's still slightly smaller than the E-M1 which was just small enough for skiing (tucking in the jacket when not in use).
- Much better EVF than GX7 and the articulated LCD is a plus for me

I know no one can make the choice but me, but if anyone has gone from the E-M1 to the GX8 let me know how it went and any opinions on the GX8 for an outdoor capable compact camera that can deal with the cold and snow.

Thanks - John



Dec 11, 2016 at 07:07 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


I have both (GX8, recently acquired, and E-M1, the original) and, at least for now, I've decided to keep both. Here are the reasons why I will use the GX8 more:

- Much better ergonomics.
- Better viewfinder
- Smaller form factor, not so much on paper, but a lot in the bag due to its shape.
- Fully articulated LCD
- 20MP
- 4K video
- Looks much less "brutal" when doing street photography
- Flipable viewfinder is actually very useful in some settings
- Dual IS is more useful, since there are many more stabilised Panasonic lenses

I'll keep the E-M1 (for now) because:
- It focuses much faster with 4/3 lenses, particularly my much loved PL 14-50mm f/2.8-3.5
- Better IS with non-stabilised lenses
- Has a battery grip, which sometimes makes it a better option for large, heavy lenses, and prolongs shooting time before having to replace battery.

My plan is to keep the Olympus until the new PL 12-60mm f2.8-4 lens is available. I suppose that lens will be able to replace the old 14-50mm. When that happens, I'll probably buy a G85 for long lenses and serious video, or a GH5 if monies allow.

I have just sold the Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 an TC, a lens that "belonged" on the E-M1. It's an extremely versatile and very sharp lens, but the images look kind of flat and boring compared to those coming from he PL. For travel, it's also very large, particularly with the huge hood. I also found the OOF rendering too busy with complex backgrounds. I'll probably replace it with the Panasonic 35-100mm f/2.8 for now, which is much smaller and less than half the weight, plus offering dual IS on the GX8. Unless, I'll just live with the tiny 35-100mm f/4-5.6 for now. That's just a marvel of a lens. It's 1-2 stops slower than its bigger brother of course, but image quality is fantastic, and it's literally pocketable

I can't say anything about weather sealing of the GX8 yet, and there's certainly no snow where I reside. For maximum build quality though, the GH3 that I used to have and use extensively gave a much stronger feeling of being indestructible than the E-M1. I assume that the GH5 will be equally good in that area, and it will be very interesting to see how the G85 turns out.

Edit:
The Zuiko 150mm f/2.0 is a lens that second hand costs more or less the same as what I got for the 40-150mm... very tempting



Dec 12, 2016 at 12:22 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Let me elaborate on a couple of things.

When I say that the ergonomics of the GX8 are better, it mainly comes down to a few distinct areas:

- Menus are better organised and easier to understand, at least to me (coming from Nikon).
- All important functions can be reached with my right hand. With small lenses, the camera can be operated with one hand, with larger lenses, the left hand can be dedicated to holding the lens.
- Certain details that make life easier, like the question coming up in the viewfinder when mounting a legacy lens, asking if I still want to use the same focal length as last time, for instance 50mm, or if I want to change it.

There's one thing that puzzles me however:
In spite of a bigger, brighter viewfinder on the GX8, I find manual focusing with legacy lenses easier with the E-M1. That is partly due to the stronger peaking (PIP, which increases things a lot, is easy to activate with the GX8 though), but there's also something about the way the E-M1 works that gives me the confidence I need to do manual focusing fast and precise. Maybe it's simply because the camera with the vertical grip is more stable than the smaller Panasonic. One should also be aware of the fact that although the peaking on the Olympus seems easy to use because it's so easily visible, the Panasonic is probably more exact. One has to concentrate when using either, but with the GX8, that is more obvious.

Again, I'm keeping both for now, and the combined weight is still less than the D810 that I used to have. It's all good



Dec 12, 2016 at 05:52 AM
jhinkey
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Thanks Jorgen!


Dec 12, 2016 at 06:00 AM
jhinkey
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Local pro shop has a couple of used GX8s for $699USD - any opinion on if that's a decent deal for a GX8 - any other GX8 users out there?

I directly compared the size of the GX8 to the E-M1 and they are pretty close, though the grip on the E-M1 is better for sure.

The biggest disappointment with the GX8 is the lack of full time IBIS for non-OIS lenses - neither in video nor in stills mode. Makes precise focusing with my 75/1.8 not so easy and video is not stabilized with these lenses either.

Looks like its the GX85 (a bit small and no weatherproofing) or wait for the GX9



Dec 19, 2016 at 01:38 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


There's a simple solution to the IBIS problem: buy Panasonic lenses

After I bought the GX8, I quickly sold the Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8. I picked up a mint, used Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 today and will buy the 35-100mm f/2.8 as soon as I can find a used one locally. Although the corresponding Zuiko lenses are sharper at the corners, I like the general rendering and depth of the Panasonic better. The 35-100 is just half the weight and much, much smaller than the big Zuiko, and with both lenses, I get dual IS when shooting stills and OIS when shooting video.

Here's a snapshot of the store owner as I picked up the lens today.

GX8 with Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 @ 35mm and f/2.8







I delivered the E-M1 for sale as well, so now I'm left with the GX8 and the GM5 as backup and ultralight travel, plus a GH1 if anything else fails. I think $700 is pretty normal for a used GX8, although I paid around $650 for mine.



Dec 19, 2016 at 12:36 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Jorgen Udvang wrote:
There's a simple solution to the IBIS problem: buy Panasonic lenses

After I bought the GX8, I quickly sold the Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8. I picked up a mint, used Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 today and will buy the 35-100mm f/2.8 as soon as I can find a used one locally. Although the corresponding Zuiko lenses are sharper at the corners, I like the general rendering and depth of the Panasonic better. The 35-100 is just half the weight and much, much smaller than the big Zuiko, and with both lenses, I get dual IS when shooting stills and
...Show more

Yep, that's the solution (have the 12-35/2.8 Pany, but don't use it much), but I can't let go of my 75/1.8 Oly and I just tried the 25/1.2 the other day and oh my it's nice! I also like using my 135/3.4 APO & 180/3.4 APO Telyts on my m43 bodies as well (simply excellent lenses).

It appears upon further looking around the new G85 kind of fits the bill - about as small as the E-M1 (though bigger than my GX7), full time IBIS, weatherproofing, good grip, and decent EVF. It's not quite as compact a shape as the GX8, but it's OK.

I may give the G85 a try in person this week. The GX7, LX7, and G5 might be traded in . . .



Dec 19, 2016 at 03:21 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


I'll probably buy the G85 later. It uses the same batteries as the GX8, and the two complement each other well:

- The G85 for most video (IBIS with video and 3.5mm mic jack) and with heavier lenses.
- The GX8 for most stills (higher resolution) and lightweight travel with the GM5 as backup.

The G85 is a bargain when it comes to price, and reviews so far have been extremely positive.



Dec 20, 2016 at 08:10 AM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Here's a review of the G85 that may interest you. It's mostly centered around video, but gives a very positive impression of the camera in general also:

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/12/panasonic-g85-review-need-get-olympus-e-m1-mark-ii-video/#prettyPhoto



Dec 20, 2016 at 01:55 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Yeah, I had not kept up with Pany m43 body introductions and missed the G85 (plus I think I had it confused with the GX85 . . . who wouldn't if they're not paying attention)


Dec 21, 2016 at 01:48 AM
 

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Jorgen Udvang
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


jhinkey wrote:
Yeah, I had not kept up with Pany m43 body introductions and missed the G85 (plus I think I had it confused with the GX85 . . . who wouldn't if they're not paying attention)


Panasonic's naming scheme is extremely confusing. Not only do they have three cameras with nearly the same name, GX8, GX85 and G85, but the GX85 is also sold as the GX8 and GX7 II in some markets and the G85 as G80 and G81 (in Germany).


Edited on Dec 21, 2016 at 10:42 PM · View previous versions



Dec 21, 2016 at 02:34 AM
mmurph
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


I own the GX8 and the GX85. I still get the names confused! Especially with the release of the G85, and the GX80/G80 permutations.

Panasonic really needs a better naming scheme. It is so opaque for people just learning about the system.

+++

I just bought a GX8 3 weeks ago for wildlife stills work this winter. I wanted the slightly larger camera, and the adjustable viewfinder when working with larger telephoto lenses. The viewfinder is particularly useful with the camera on a tripod behind a large lens.

I am still getting used to it, but I really love the ergonomics and the layout of the camera.

+++

The GX85 was/ is a great little video camera with the 5 Axis Stabilization and Dual IS

It is cheaper to buy the GX85 for a video shoot than most external stabilizers/ gimbals for a non-IBIS 4k camera. It is too bad that Panasonic totally neglected the audio capabilities, but not a big issue for those who use dual system audio. Especially at the current price for used bodies.

The GX85 is also a great little "point and shoot" type camera with the 12-32 kit lens. I like it much better than I did my Sony RX100IV. The interchangeable lenses make it a lot more flexible/ useful. I felt really limited only having a 24-70 equivalent on the RX100IV at times. When you zoom to 70 mm and need a lot more you are stuck with the RX.

Hmm. I may have just talked myself into keeping my GX85. Not doing video this winter, but for casual use...

Cheers!


jhinkey wrote:
Yeah, I had not kept up with Pany m43 body introductions and missed the G85 (plus I think I had it confused with the GX85 . . . who wouldn't if they're not paying attention)




Dec 21, 2016 at 05:34 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


mmurph wrote:
I own the GX8 and the GX85. I still get the names confused! Especially with the release of the G85, and the GX80/G80 permutations.

Panasonic really needs a better naming scheme. It is so opaque for people just learning about the system.

+++

I just bought a GX8 3 weeks ago for wildlife stills work this winter. I wanted the slightly larger camera, and the adjustable viewfinder when working with larger telephoto lenses. The viewfinder is particularly useful with the camera on a tripod behind a large lens.

I am still getting used to it, but I really love the ergonomics and the
...Show more

One question on the GX85 - is the EVF or LCD image stabilized by the IBIS system when manual focusing non-OIS lenses when zoomed in to 100%? Does it also stabilize the image with video with non-OIS lenses?




Dec 21, 2016 at 06:26 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


jhinkey wrote:
One question on the GX85 - is the EVF or LCD image stabilized by the IBIS system when manual focusing non-OIS lenses when zoomed in to 100%? Does it also stabilize the image with video with non-OIS lenses?


Yes! The EVF and LCD are well stabilized in every mode, including video.

I put a Nikon 50 mm 1.4 manual focus lens on the camera. The lens is stabilized when IBIS is turned on in every configuration.

The same is true with a Canon 70-200 4.0 zoom with IS turned off. Including the 2x and 4x digital zooms, and the "Picture in Picture" functions.

This worked the same for Panasonic lenses, Canon AF lenses via adapter, and the Nikon manual focus lens via adapter. The way you actuate the "PIP" magnified focus assist varies with each of the 3 lenses, but they all work the same. Even at a very high magnification.

+++

One of the first sample videos that I saw when the camera came out was an outdoor/ location 4k wedding video shot completely handheld.

It is pretty awesome compared to the big and expensive mechanical stabilizers (Merlin, or similar suits with arms) or electronic gimbal stabilizers. It may not be quite as perfect with fast camera motion, but there is also the ability to apply minor post-processing stabilization, especially with 4K.

It is by far the most affordable 4K video camera with IBIS. I think the Sony A6500 now offers 4K with IBIS, and the much more expensive A7RII also does. Plus I assume the new Olympus M1 II, which has 4K video, but that is also $2k.

Cheers!








Dec 21, 2016 at 10:58 PM
jwin
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


mmurph wrote:
Yes! The EVF and LCD are well stabilized in every mode, including video.

I put a Nikon 50 mm 1.4 manual focus lens on the camera. The lens is stabilized when IBIS is turned on in every configuration.

The same is true with a Canon 70-200 4.0 zoom with IS turned off. Including the 2x and 4x digital zooms, and the "Picture in Picture" functions.

This worked the same for Panasonic lenses, Canon AF lenses via adapter, and the Nikon manual focus lens via adapter. The way you actuate the "PIP" magnified focus assist varies with each of the 3 lenses,
...Show more

Wow...

I just want to confirm regarding gx85 + Kipon EF auto adapter + canon 70-200 F4 IS combo, you are able to deploy GX85's IBIS when using this combo when you disabled the in-lens IS? If yes, how about any other EF lenses with no in-lens IS, would IBIS work with this combo?

I am using GX7 + Kipon EF auto adapter and on EF lenses (with or without any in-lens IS) I am not able to use GX7's IBIS. GX7 IBIS is primitive compared to GX85 but I would be happy with just moderate IBIS support in a pinch. No matter what I do, GX7's IBIS activation option could not be chosen, GX7 insists on using Canon's lens IS for all EF lenses attached via Kipon adapter. I don't know if this is GX7's limitation or Kipon's firmware problem, I've just been blaming Kipon. lol



Dec 22, 2016 at 02:55 AM
jhinkey
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Held and tried out the G85 briefly yesterday - looks like it's the camera for my current needs.
Better to buy right now or wait until after Christmas if it might go on sale?

- J



Dec 23, 2016 at 07:05 PM
jhinkey
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Well, it's official, the G85 is my E-M1 replacement. Traded in 75/2.5 Summarit & 40/1.4 VM for it.

Now I have to figure out what to do with my GX7 . . .



Dec 24, 2016 at 09:57 PM
mmurph
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


jwin wrote:
[
I just want to confirm regarding gx85 + Kipon EF auto adapter + canon 70-200 F4 IS combo, you are able to deploy GX85's IBIS when using this combo when you disabled the in-lens IS? If yes, how about any other EF lenses with no in-lens IS, would IBIS work with this combo?


I'm sorry for the delay! I wanted to test IBIS with all of my lenses, but I haven't had a chance with the holidays.

IBIS did work well with the Canon 55-250 STM and the Canon 70-200 4.0, both with IS turned off on the lens. It also worked fine with the Nikon 50 mm manual focus lens with no IS,/ VR- and no electronic communications. So it should work fine with any lens.

Make sure that you update the Kipon adapter to firmware version 2.6. That version was released in January 2016 I believe. My adapter had been at version 2.3- I probably never updated it- and there were a couple of flaky things with autofocus and exposure with longer lenses. All gone since the update, it is rock solid.

***

Also, I saw this video yesterday on 4/3 rumors:

http://www.43rumors.com/the-g85-is-the-best-camera-of-the-year-for-hugh-broiwnstone/

"The GX85 is the best camera of the year for Hugh Broiwnstone"

***

I haven't had a chance to watch the whole thing. But he is right about how amazing the GX85 is/ was for video. Now we also have the G85.

I was thinking about the G85, but I think I am just going to keep the GX8 + GX85 instead. The two are about the same total cost as the G85 body alone, and the 2 distinct styles gives me a bit more versatility.

I love them both in different ways. The GX8 has the larger body with the tilting viewfinder, plus slightly more refined controls. The GX85 feels like a great little "point and shoot", and it has the IBIS stabilization in video mode. I really missed that on the GX8 when I shot some wildlife video with a long lens (Panasonic 100-300.)

The GX8 shutter is a little louder than the newer shutter on the GX85/ G85. I also like not having the AA filter on. the GX85, although the images seem almost identical. I haven't had any shutter shock problems on the GX8, and there is always the silent shutter.

Cheers!







Dec 26, 2016 at 06:49 AM
jhinkey
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


Has anyone figured out how to get rid of the "hissing" sound the G85 makes when turned on? I've turned off the IBIS, but it's still there. Just wondering if I have something else turned on that's causing it. It may just be a permanent sound the camera makes, but seems like it won't make for good audio during video recordings.

Almost traded in the GX7 on the G85, but decided to keep it for now and perhaps wait for the GX85 to go on sale to get the upgrade. It's just too small and great a camera to go without. I've never used the tilt-up EVF so won't miss it, but will enjoy the better stabilization using non OIS lenses.



Dec 26, 2016 at 03:38 PM
jwin
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Is The GX8 My E-M1 Replacement?


mmurph wrote:
I'm sorry for the delay! I wanted to test IBIS with all of my lenses, but I haven't had a chance with the holidays.

IBIS did work well with the Canon 55-250 STM and the Canon 70-200 4.0, both with IS turned off on the lens. It also worked fine with the Nikon 50 mm manual focus lens with no IS,/ VR- and no electronic communications. So it should work fine with any lens.

Make sure that you update the Kipon adapter to firmware version 2.6. That version was released in January 2016 I believe. My adapter had been at version 2.3-
...Show more

Thank you.

This is indeed good news regarding the Kipon adapter when using with newer Panasonic MFT IBIS equipped GX85/G85. I can eventually move up to them from my current GX7 and will be happy to get IBIS support on the newer cameras. GX85 prices are starting to hit the below $500 sweet spot this holiday season, very tempting.

I have been running V2.6 firmware on Kipon since they released it earlier 2016, it just doesn't work well with GX7's IBIS system on any EF mount lenses with electrical contact. GX7 IBIS works fine with manual/non-AF adapted lenses.



Dec 26, 2016 at 08:04 PM
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