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Archive 2016 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm

  
 
marsh9077
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I am in a bit of a quandary and I was wondering what some of the other wildlife guys and gals on the form are shooting/think.

I currently have an 800mm and recently I got to play around with the 600mm II and really really like this lens. I really like the versatility of being able to shoot at 600, 840, or 1200 (using 1.4x and 2x TC's). I am thinking about is selling my 800mm for a 600mm. I mostly shoot larger animals, big horn sheep, goats, bears, moose, pronghorn, deer, etc. have not worked my way over to birds yet but would like too, I just find myself focused on big game animals right now (use to be and avid hunter so they fascinate me). Do you guys think I will miss the extra reach of the 800?

Also I currently am shooting 1dx's so as we all know the AF at f8 is limited to the center, which leads into me next pickle. I have been thinking about buying a 200-400 (currently am using the 100-400 II) as I got to rent one of these a fell in love with it but... I was also thinking about upgrading one of my 1dx's to the mark II. What would you guys spend you money on? new glass or a new body?

Man these first world problems...



Dec 06, 2016 at 10:40 AM
Methodical
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Hell you already have the glass, I'd go for the 1dx2 if you are debating glass or body, especially since you shoot big game and the 800 will definitely be ok for the little birdies, too. I use my 600II exclusively with the 1.4 and 1Dx, so you won't miss a stop of light, especially with either of those bodies.

Me personally, I'd keep the 800 if I already had it and go for the body, especially if you need to be able to use more than just the center AF point at f8. But for the versatility you mention, I went with the 600II.

How does the 800 and 1.4tc work with the 1Dx?

Just One Man's Opinion.

Edited on Dec 06, 2016 at 10:52 AM · View previous versions



Dec 06, 2016 at 10:49 AM
lowside67
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I have seen an awful lot of people sell their 800s in favour of the 600 II for exactly the reasons you have noted - it's lighter, it has the option of 600 F4 instead of just 800 5.6, and has a much newer IS system. On a 1DX I believe most people believe the 600 II + 1.4x III is basically as good as a native 800 5.6 because of the synergy of the new style TC with the V2 telephotos.

Mark



Dec 06, 2016 at 10:49 AM
dgdg
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I don't think changing your gear will substantially improve your portfolio.
The 800mm, and 100-400II are great lenses that cover all the wildlife needs for most.
Personally, I would need to clearly know what shots I am specifically missing due to not having the very expensive 200-400 or 600mm lenses.
As far as f/8 autofocus, are you missing a lot of shots due to focus and recompose or not able to keep your target in the center of your frame? Arash has suggested that bif at 1200mm is not a practical thing anyways.
If you are simply looking to buy new gear and have your heart set on getting something, well that's difficult to advise.

David



Dec 06, 2016 at 10:57 AM
arbitrage
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I don't see why anyone at this point in time would choose the 800 over the 600II. I totally understand people who owned the 800 over the older 600 and no need for them to switch (although many have and are glad).

The apertures are the same at each focal length. 800 5.6 vs 840 5.6, 1200 f/8 vs 1120 f/8. But you can't go longer on the 800 without losing AF through the VF. You can make use of the 600 end especially for mammals. And man is it good at 600 wide open or not.

600 is lighter...you get the 600 f/4 that is more useful than 1600 f/8 w/o AF. It focuses closer if you can get close. It uses all the AF points where as the 800 can't use all the AF points on the newest 61/65 point system.

The 600 at 840 is so close to the bare 800 that in real shooting you won't notice a difference. The 600 at 1200 may lose some contrast to the 800 at 1120 just because of the 2x vs 1.4x but I use the 600 at 1200 and it is very good.

Now the 1DX2 is only better for a couple reasons. I use both 1DX and 1DX2 back to back these days. 1DX2 has a better shutter sound for wildlife (scares them less). 1DX2 has much better AF with an f/8 combo and can use all the points and modes. 1DX2 has nice always lit AF points in Servo mode. Otherwise ISO is equal, drive speed is better but not really that important when looking at 12 vs 14. Only get the 1DX2 if you really need the f/8 focusing IMHO.

200-400, I own that one also. 100-400II is equally sharp and focuses just as well. 200-400 has the extra f-stop and the awesome convenience of the built in TC. Such an amazing lens and only downside is size and weight.

I'd invest in new glass if I were you but the 800 is still an amazing lens so 600 only if you want 600 f/4 as an option. Otherwise pairing a 200-400 with your 800 would make a deadly combo and sticking with the 1DX for now. Also 800 has lost a lot of value in used market and tough to sell so probably best just to keep it and do 200-400 if you can stand the size and weight.



Dec 06, 2016 at 11:09 AM
RobAmy
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I own all three lenses, the 800mm, 600mm and 200-400mm. I think the ultimate combo is the 800mm paired with a 200-400mm, heavy kit yes but just outstanding. I personally will not sell the 800mm, it is a beautiful piece of glass. I feel the use of extenders are good option on the 600mm but boy do you miss shots putting them on and off. Now if Canon made the 600mm with the built in extender well then we would have a winner over the 800mm, at least in my opinion.

You already have a great camera, so I would pick the glass over a camera, seeing you have the 800mm already I would pick the 200-400mm. That lens is my favorite lens. Just so versatile. I often use it at 784mm with outstanding results. I do have the new 1dx Mark II which is a beauty but the 1dx is no slouch.

You really need to decide what your needs/wants are and go from there. If I could only keep one lens then the 200-400mm would be the one out of all three I own. The main reason I like the 600mm if the f4 reason only, the weight difference between the 600mm or the 800mm is no biggie to me, I can handhold both but they are all still considered heavy. The 200-400mm I can hold fairly easily so that is my go to lens for light travel when needed. I bought the 100-400 and sold it, I preferred the 200-400mm for my needs.

You really can't go wrong with any of the choices, they really are all outstanding pieces of gear. Some of the used 200-400mm prices are a real good value in my opinion.




Dec 06, 2016 at 11:30 AM
Scott Stoness
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I have 200-400, 600v2. Used to have the 500v1 but bought the 600v2 to focus on ff on long lens for low light. I primarly focus on big animals too.

My thinking is the best lens/body combination is 5dsr and 600v2 and 200-400.

800 is just too heavy.

500 is too short for me with ff

100-400 is f5.6 and my animals are usually at dim light.

The biggest dilemma is 200-400 vs 100-400. The 100-400 is way lighter but f5.6. I often waver between selling my 200-400 and getting the 100-400 but f4 really matters and flip the adapter to 560 is great too. I have compromised to v1 of 100-400 for when I need light and 200-400 for when I am close to home. But I am tempted to buy the new 100-400.

So to your question better to spend on glass or body. I would sell the 800 just because of weight. And 600v2 can do as well with lighter and 1.4x.

To your question of body. 5dsr outresolves my 7d2. Why not sell 1dx and replace it with 5dsr. If you are primarly shooting large animals you don't need fast focus with a sacrifice of mpx. I considered the 5d4 but concluded I don't need the faster focus - I would rather have mpx for large animals for cropping. And the dynamic range gain of 4 is not that large above iso 400 where I would use it.






Dec 06, 2016 at 02:42 PM
Liquidstone
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Wait a little longer for the 600 f/4 DO.


Dec 06, 2016 at 07:55 PM
IndyFab
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Liquidstone wrote:
Wait a little longer for the 600 f/4 DO.


This




Dec 06, 2016 at 08:20 PM
mptnest
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I'll throw a monkey wrench in on this one, as it hits so close to home. I also spend many months a year shooting large game. Currently, I own a 600II and a 1DXII. As mentioned previously, I sold my 1DX because of shutter noise, F8 mulit-focus points and multi-shot silent mode.

As much as I love my 600II, I don't find myself using it much for big game. For my style of photography, I do a lot of hiking (for elk) and sitting (mostly in a blind for deer). The 600 set up is just not mobil enough for me. My main go to is the 70-200II 2.8 with a 2X and sneaker power. For most of my whitetails and elk photos, 400mm is usually enough length.

So here's the curve, I'm thinking heavily on a 400 2.8. Think about the versatility there. It's lightweight, super fast focusing, and built for low light as many of my photos are taken before sunrise or shortly there after. With a 2X, you still have 800mm at f/5.6, so the multi-point focus will work your the 1DX.

For me and my style of shooting, I say keep your 1DX, keep your 800 and buy a 400 2.8II. You'll be ready for about anything that comes your way.



Dec 07, 2016 at 10:25 PM
Flowernut
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Get the 600. I've had both. The 800 if you are shooting in places like Yellowstone or Tetons puts you so far back that people are stepping in front of you all the time compared to when you are using a 600 (puts you at the same distance most long lens people are at). For birds, the 600 with the 1.4x gives you 840 at 5.6 and my memory is that tests show it is just as sharp or sharper. A lot of people are using it now with a 2x which works well with the new f8 focusing cameras. The only place I used a 400 f2.8 was at Midway island. Worked great. Birds virtually tame, usable for flight shots, blurred out backgrounds, and easier to transport. I'm not a mammal specialist but that has been my sole use for that lens. If I need a 400, I look to the 100-400 or 400DO.


Dec 08, 2016 at 07:25 PM
arbitrage
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


mptnest wrote:
I'll throw a monkey wrench in on this one, as it hits so close to home. I also spend many months a year shooting large game. Currently, I own a 600II and a 1DXII. As mentioned previously, I sold my 1DX because of shutter noise, F8 mulit-focus points and multi-shot silent mode.

As much as I love my 600II, I don't find myself using it much for big game. For my style of photography, I do a lot of hiking (for elk) and sitting (mostly in a blind for deer). The 600 set up is just not mobil enough for me.
...Show more

I used to think the 400 2.8 had no use for my type of photography (mostly birds) but lately I've had a turn of heart and am really considering replacing my 600II with the 400 2.8. I think I'd be okay giving up 1200f/8 which takes a lot of skill to even get a good image out of in favour of the 400 2.8 which I can use a lot in the winter in the north and when on trips in denser jungles. I keep finding myself out shooting and saying I wish I had a 400 2.8 right now. If there weren't strong rumours for the 600DO, I think I'd be swapping the 600II for the 400 2.8. But the portability of the 600DO makes it a stronger contender for my 600II sale money.

That said for the OP I think the 400 2.8 would be an awesome idea.



Dec 08, 2016 at 08:58 PM
Pixel Perfect
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Another minor point when you look at the 1DX/II AF guide it also shows the 800 can only use 47 AF points vs 61 AF points for the 600 (I/II) + 1.4x (I/II/III).

@mptnest

Sounds like a 200-400 f/4L IS would be a perfect lens for you. Still lighter and smaller than the 600 II and built-in TC is super bonus for quickly getting extra reach.

Geoff 400 f/2.8 with 5DsR or 5DIV would be pretty darn sweet given the extra pixels compared to the 1 series, and still makes a superb 560 f/4 and great 800 f/5.6



Dec 08, 2016 at 09:12 PM
Eyvind Ness
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I own the 600 II, 1dXII, and 5DSR as well. While I can see the logic in swapping the 800 for a 600 II, I agree with Scott et al that suggests looking at the 5DSR instead. It has the potential to make a bigger difference for your kind of shooting than another super-tele, IMHO.



Dec 09, 2016 at 06:47 AM
Methodical
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


I agree big time about the 400 2.8 II. I considered getting this lens before I purchased the 600II as I believe it's one of the most versatile of the bunch, at least for my use - wildlife and sports. This lens is still on my radar (almost purchased it this past summer). Another option that I found pretty useful is the 300 2.8IS with the 2x - light weight and sharp 600 f5.6 if I want to romp around in the woods with no tripod. It's great that Canon offer so many options. Funny, I've never considered the 200-400.


Dec 09, 2016 at 09:53 AM
SeattleBirdMan
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


Yep, certainly first world problems and actually nice ones to have.

The answer for yourself may be easier if you identify your needs and what gaps your current equipment creates.

With regard to 600 f4 II vs 800 5.6 some things to consider:

    Objective variables: 600 weighs less, has closer focusing distance, and has 5% greater focal length at the same apertures on the 800.
    Subjective variables: Seems like more folks think the 600 is sharper at 840 and 1200 then the 800 at 800 and 1120 but it must not be a big difference. Focusing Speed? Not sure if there is a consensus. On 1DX and 1DX2 everything is “fast”.
    Overall the 600 seems like the better tool but in your case selling the 800 and getting the 600 will cost you some cash I suspect.


Some choices of equipment will probably vary according to your style of shooting. Do you like to stay in one spot and shoot from a tripod mainly, be mobile for other opportunities or some combination?

If you like some mobility and you don’t handhold the 800 and your other lens is a 100-400 then you might benefit in a longer lens you can handhold well and be mobile. The 200-400 would not address that well. The 500f4 is lighter and a lot of people find it okay to handhold.

I personally like to be mobile but am fortunate that I can handhold my 600 f4 at 1200mm very well. I also like to wear a second camera and have 100-400 on my chest with a cotton carrier so I have a broad range of shooting options. Sometimes it is nice to get shot with a lot of the environment in them versus always pursuing tight shots.

I also have the 400 DO II that I love on boats and when I travel and can’t take the 600f4. It does well with 2X at 800mm.

Regarding the 1DX vs 2 I will say I’m quite impressed with the new AF. Being able to use any or all focus points in an F8 situation is great. For flight shots I’ve even found all points for 1200mm works well on larger birds. I used the setup for 2 straight hours on Short-eared Owls and it was fantastic. Outside of the AF update I don’t find any of the other changes of particular note.

Hope that helps.




Dec 09, 2016 at 06:34 PM
dehowie
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Question for you wildlife guys and gals about the 600mm II vs 800mm


In short if AF accuracy at 800 means a huge amount don't expect the same from the converted 600.
The 600 plus 1.4 is good but not as good as the bare 800.
I have seen plenty of people who don't own or have used the 800 commenting about how the 600 and 1.4 combo is "better" than the 800. It's not.
The 600 plus 1.4 is very good at 840 but it's not better than the 800 simply due to AF being around the same speed but less consistently accurate. Now you may be happy with slightly less accurate AF for the flexibility offered by the 600. The 600 I have is also sharper on the edge of frame than my 800 when on the converter.
Now words don't do justice to the small differences I am talking about here and on a day to day basis other than the AF tracking being marginally worse on the converterized 600 they are difficult to split.
In the real world if I "know" I need 800 or more I will use the 800. If I know I don't I'll use the 600.
If I don't know I'd take the 600 as it offers more flexibility.



Dec 09, 2016 at 06:53 PM





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